About the meta perks
I was wondering about perks like DS and Adrenalin and overall perk that have no counterplay what if we keep them as it is but in order to use it you have to prink one common ( at least) item and have it on you when is the time to use it. For Adrenalin, you need to have a medkit in order to work a the end of the game or you lose the perk and for DS you need to brink a new common item in order to use your DS that one time. What do you think?
Comments
Not a good idea. Would only result in more lobby dodging.
Med Kit-->That person either uses Adrenaline or it is an Insta Heal-->Dodge
New Item-->This person has DS-->Dodge
There do not need more reasons for Killers to dodge lobbies.
Not rly you can just add Franklin's Demise and you can end everything in one moment and because you will know what may brink in the game you will know how to play around it
I know it'd break the game
Just use enduring lol
But it's not a true counter
If its not a true counter, what is it so?
Make it completely useless like all the hex if one perk is OP (when it use) you must have one completely counter
Why if you don't have a item is no problem and if you have you know where it is
DS is not OP.
I see it multiple times a day where a Survivor hits the DS Skill Check and is downed 10 seconds later again.
If they killer want to run it let them, if one teammate of your steal your time go and open a chest you may find better things there and why not be forced to use an item for a powerful perk that can change the game?
If you guys hate DS and think it should get removed, i think u most have a bad time playing this game.
Adrenaline is fine, it is only annoying with with SWF as the coordinate it's use, it's why I beleive SWF should be held to a different set of rules for certain things which hopefully the devs sort out so joining via SWF or solo can be seperated better.
Why DBD should have perks that can give insta advanced to the survivor ( yes killer have insta down but devs have in mind to take them out of the game soon). If we follow the logic leave the DS use and go for others you give him/her a free escape every time, adrenaline changes the end game in moments no matter the killer you play. Think that way ruin and NOED are strong ( no OP) but you can play around them and counter them very easy and fast even tho they are the strongest perk for killers in the game why survivors do not have that?
I did not say that it is good game design. But he is not OP. If a potato uses DS, he will still be a potato, maybe extend a chase by a few seconds.
DS can be very powerful.
Sometimes you see people go down in like 20 seconds but then after the DS they manage to find every pallet in the game. It can be random at times.
With the same logic if a survivor is not potato he/she can extend the game by 5 gens so what are we gonna give a pass because new survivors have no idea have to loop or hide or play survivor optimal?
Adrenaline on the other hand as I said is only really strong in SWF as with solo they tend to build more for themselves, Adrenaline is an end game perk and there are others which are better to help you get to the end game, I hardly get the use out of Adrenaline while playing solo so its a wasted slot for myself as I'm either dead before it can do it's job or I am at full health and not in a chase meaning I wasted a perk slot for a sprint boost.
Adrenaline is a real danger there, not DS. Yet, as many pointed out, it has a condition, and often a survivor does never get to use it in a game. The only thing I would change about it is that the effect can kick in later (after you've been unhooked). That's too much. One of the effects (heal OR speed bonus) in such a case should go.
The thing about Enduring is it only makes DS last around 1.75 second less, its not a counter its just a perk to make the stun a little shorter, 2.25 seconds is still a lot of time for failing to escape the killer to a good looper, now take NOED while it also rewards failure in essense it can be taken out the game before a gen is even done, so only one of these perks has a true counter.
The killers dont really have any perks which dont have a counter or strat to negate, each one from Spirit Fury to Rancor has a way of negating its effect by dropping pallet earlier or being very causious and stealthy after the last gen is done until its safe to leave, it all depends on how knowledgable of the game the survivors are.
False. Enduring 3 reduces stun from DS 3 to ONE second instead of FOUR. I'm speaking out of experience: whenever I'm using Enduring, it's about 10 seconds to down the survivor again after I've been D-striked. Now, of course even 10 seconds can mean a lot in a fast paced game, but in return, that survivor used up a perk slot instead of having something more useful.
I see the problem very clearly for a long time now. It's a psychological effect. Many of you guys out there just can't get over setbacks emotionally. "Wee, I've been D-striked", "Mommy, I'm camped" and so on, so you all gather here, baaing like sheep about how OP/unfun some perk or gamestyle is. Because complaining is easier than adopting.
I have no compassion for you.
Well you are wrong in that assumption, thats not how the percentage works I am afraid, its additive to the recover rate and not deductive of the actual length of time so its around 2.28 seconds when running Eduring.
You can make all the assuptions and soft insults you want all it does is make you look a bit foolish when you dont know the math in the first place.
The Math of the stun time/1.75 so 4/1.75 = 2.28s
Its an older video but shows how long the DS affect is when running Enduring as the drop animation is also not calculated into the tier 3, 4 second stun.
Ok, I was inaccurate with the numbers. My main statement stands though: against Enduring, DS is a joke. And the reason why it receives so much flak is not that i's EFFECTIVE, but that it is ANNOYING.
The problem with DS is that it has no actual counter, Enduring yes does help with the effect but it still rewards failure on the survivors side and punishes the killer for getting the down, much like NOED does with killers (which does have an actual counter) but its still why it is one of the most hated of killer perks on this forum.
Perks which punish someone for doing the actual overall objective are bad game design.
If I were given five cents every time someone uses that false argument, I'd be as rich as my nick suggests.
DS, NOED, or any other perk DO NOT "reward" anyone for "bad gameplay". They give you opportunities, like all perks do. In the case of DS, it gives you a chance to waste more of the killer's time (which, as many suggested, depends more on how well the survivor can loop than how damn OP this perk is).
Also, "not counterable" is completely false. It is counterable, mostly by Enduring, but juggling (or juggling + Mori), slugging, Rancor, maybe some other methods work with more or less efficiency. Don't mistake "counter" with "negate". If there were perks that could entirely negate DS (say, just disable the perk), THAT would be bad design. Think about Calm Spirit. Almost completely useless, but a blessing when you're facing Doctor. And this really is bad design, since it makes the game a roulette: if you choose luckily, just the right perks to counter your opponent, you're in the green, while if you happen to pick Distortion and Small game and the killer does not have any aura reading or Hex perks... well, RIP perk slots.
Funny how I "defend" DS. I assure you, I hate being D-striked as much as the next killer. But I feel all the hype against it is way overblown. I don't suppose I convince you, but that's how I see it anyways. And sorry if I come across as smug.
Lets talk about calm spirit, yes some perks do not have actual counters but those are the ones designed to simply alleviate certain mechanics, the doctor only becomes a normal killer if someone uses calm spirit, it doesn't remove the ability to track via scratch marks or sight it removes one aspect a scream, just like iron will removes the noises when injured, semi countered by stridor but again stridor is not worth running for the most part due to again scratch marks and sight.
The other perks are a roulette correct and why they are not meta, remember this is about meta perks and why they are in that bracket.
The reason why DS is meta is due to it being useful in almost every match for the right player, it allows for longer chases soemtimes doubling them, allowing others to stay on gens, especially with players on comms, by saying it's ok I have DS finish the gen for one example.
That is the problem I see with DS, if a perk means so many things need to be balanced around it I believe that's a major problem.
Its ok its a discussion we don't have to agree, I don't think your are being smug, it's good to read others viewpoints on what they think, I agree some do blow it way out of proportion and while some killers slug, dribble etc I simply eat it and deal with it, I accept it's part of the game and can live with it if the devs decide not to do anything, I simply chime in with what I beleive is wrong with the perk and give my feedback.
Your timing is off, DS is actually over 4 seconds, enduring looks to last a little longer than a second too. Dbd timing is off, insidious says 2 seconds yet definitely takes longer to activate.
Anyway, fact is it depends entirely where the survivor is. If they were on their way to a mega loop like the abbatoir window then no it can definitely take longer, especially if there is a good load of pallets nearby.
@twistedmonkey but its not that hard to counter looping? And if you have spirit fury and enduring on the same build, you counter both long pallet loops and ds?
Its like dead hard, once used the killer counters it by baiting it out so its usage can be more useful to gain distance to a window or pallet.
Bamboozle an example of a perk which can't be countered as a survivor cannot stop it's usage.
As I said enduring can help with DS but it can't counter it, a competent player wont see much of a difference as by the time you recover they are already on their way to the next loop spot ready to waste another half a gen at least.
Imo DS simply gives a survivor another run at wasting time after the killer did well to down them.
DS give too much, ask for almost nothing and do not need much skill to use it. A counter is something that can stop it from the start
The only way Enduring can counter DS is by adding a new effect when to get hit by DS the number go up from 75 to 95 %