Was the selfcare nerf a good idea?

HavelmomDaS1

I by myself and many I know of are playing the "No heal meta" which means basically not equipping selfcare, always using adrenalin and rush the gens injured.

The plan of nerfing selfcare was to slow down the game. This works for the casual and the only "just decent" survivors, because they will still selfcare even against Legion lol.
However, for the more advanced survivors selfcare became a "wasted" perkslot and this leads to survivors to rush the gens even faster, especially coordinated SWF groups who got 4x adrenalin. 
I was always running adrenalin and only pushed the last gen injured, but lately I push all gens injured as survivor.

What's your opinion? Did the selfcare nerf helped you to slow the game down or are games even faster done cuz everyone is pushing gens injured? As killer I feel SWF games are ending even quicker than before if they have all adrenalin and noone selfcare.

EDIT: So far it seems like the most people agree with that the healing speed nerf was a bad idea and backfired killer so gens are getting rushed even faster.

Poweas

@Vietfox said:
Yes, it was a bad idea which mainly came from killer mains complaining about SC and totally backfired on them as we can see now. Funny thing is that i still see some people asking for SC to get nerfed, ignoring that even more survivors would realize about how useless is SC and changing their build to Resilience + Adrenaline.

I've started to use Resilience, Adrenaline (yup you're right about the first 2), Balanced Landing and Iron will. It's so easy to survive and genrush the hell out of the killers. The self care nerf was stupid and backfired on the killers. I love it. Although as killer, I've had to resort to playing scummy to win. ITS BEAUTIFUL.

Vietfox

@Poweas said:

@Vietfox said:
Yes, it was a bad idea which mainly came from killer mains complaining about SC and totally backfired on them as we can see now. Funny thing is that i still see some people asking for SC to get nerfed, ignoring that even more survivors would realize about how useless is SC and changing their build to Resilience + Adrenaline.

I've started to use Resilience, Adrenaline (yup you're right about the first 2), Balanced Landing and Iron will. It's so easy to survive and genrush the hell out of the killers. The self care nerf was stupid and backfired on the killers. I love it. Although as killer, I've had to resort to playing scummy to win. ITS BEAUTIFUL.

Resilience + Adrenaline are the way to go, especially with friends. The other 2 depend on your playstyle.

Poweas

@DocOctober said:

@Vietfox said:
@DocOctober said:

@Vietfox said:

@Master said:

@HavelmomDaS1 said:

I by myself and many I know of are playing the "No heal meta" which means basically not equipping selfcare, always using adrenalin and rush the gens injured.

The plan of nerfing selfcare was to slow down the game. This works for the casual and the only "just" survivors, because they will still selfcare even against Legion lol.

However, for the more advanced survivors selfcare became a "wasted" perkslot and this leads to survivors to rush the gens even faster, especially coordinated SWF groups who got 4x adrenalin. 

I was always running adrenalin and only pushed the last gen injured, but lately I push all gens injured as survivor.

What's your opinion? Did the selfcare nerf helped you to slow the game down or are games even faster done cuz everyone is pushing gens injured? As killer I feel SWF games are ending even quicker than before if they have all adrenalin and noone selfcare.



SC hasnt been nerfed, just like DS rework didnt happen and the hatch sloing mechanic has been dismissed

If you guys say that Doc got nerfed because of the changes on Nurse's calling then you must admit that SC got nerfed too since it's related to a healing action.

Who says that? I certainly don't. Only stuff that changed in itself is either buffed or nerfed. SC wasn't nerfed as its values weren't changed. The Doctor wasn't nerfed just because a Perk he has the option of using no longer reveals Snapping Out Of It Survivors. His power wasn't changed.

If anything in that equation, then Nurse's Calling was nerfed.

I agree, but we got several threads of people claiming that Doc got nerfed because of NC. Maybe you didn't, but some others did say that.
About SC its values weren't changed but the healing changes affected that perk indirectly, which is why some people stopped running it.

Because it takes 8 seconds longer to heal? My what an atrocity, must mean the Perk is utter garbage.

And really, it's still omni-present in my games, there are at least 2-3 SCs still.

Are you trolling? It used to take 24 seconds. That was 3/10 of a gen. It was worth healing. Now that is got nerfed to 32 seconds, it takes 4/10 of a gen. That's just dumb to heal. It was before but now it's just blatantly obviously dumb. (Excuse my crappy grammar)

Poweas

@Vietfox said:
@Poweas said:

@Vietfox said:

Yes, it was a bad idea which mainly came from killer mains complaining about SC and totally backfired on them as we can see now. Funny thing is that i still see some people asking for SC to get nerfed, ignoring that even more survivors would realize about how useless is SC and changing their build to Resilience + Adrenaline.

I've started to use Resilience, Adrenaline (yup you're right about the first 2), Balanced Landing and Iron will. It's so easy to survive and genrush the hell out of the killers. The self care nerf was stupid and backfired on the killers. I love it. Although as killer, I've had to resort to playing scummy to win. ITS BEAUTIFUL.

Resilience + Adrenaline are the way to go, especially with friends. The other 2 depend on your playstyle.

I'm solo but it works just as well. I'm decent at chasing again so I do fine without healing. It's so pointless.

Weederick

Selfcare didnt get changed, healing did.
Its still as good as before, im happy to see survivors not healing. Makes it even easier to snowball and win, just to progress gens for a bit. Beeing injured is still a very weak state.

DocOctober

@Poweas said:

@DocOctober said:

@Vietfox said:
@DocOctober said:

@Vietfox said:

@Master said:

@HavelmomDaS1 said:

I by myself and many I know of are playing the "No heal meta" which means basically not equipping selfcare, always using adrenalin and rush the gens injured.

The plan of nerfing selfcare was to slow down the game. This works for the casual and the only "just" survivors, because they will still selfcare even against Legion lol.

However, for the more advanced survivors selfcare became a "wasted" perkslot and this leads to survivors to rush the gens even faster, especially coordinated SWF groups who got 4x adrenalin. 

I was always running adrenalin and only pushed the last gen injured, but lately I push all gens injured as survivor.

What's your opinion? Did the selfcare nerf helped you to slow the game down or are games even faster done cuz everyone is pushing gens injured? As killer I feel SWF games are ending even quicker than before if they have all adrenalin and noone selfcare.



SC hasnt been nerfed, just like DS rework didnt happen and the hatch sloing mechanic has been dismissed

If you guys say that Doc got nerfed because of the changes on Nurse's calling then you must admit that SC got nerfed too since it's related to a healing action.

Who says that? I certainly don't. Only stuff that changed in itself is either buffed or nerfed. SC wasn't nerfed as its values weren't changed. The Doctor wasn't nerfed just because a Perk he has the option of using no longer reveals Snapping Out Of It Survivors. His power wasn't changed.

If anything in that equation, then Nurse's Calling was nerfed.

I agree, but we got several threads of people claiming that Doc got nerfed because of NC. Maybe you didn't, but some others did say that.
About SC its values weren't changed but the healing changes affected that perk indirectly, which is why some people stopped running it.

Because it takes 8 seconds longer to heal? My what an atrocity, must mean the Perk is utter garbage.

And really, it's still omni-present in my games, there are at least 2-3 SCs still.

Are you trolling? It used to take 24 seconds. That was 3/10 of a gen. It was worth healing. Now that is got nerfed to 32 seconds, it takes 4/10 of a gen. That's just dumb to heal. It was before but now it's just blatantly obviously dumb. (Excuse my crappy grammar)

I'm actually quite serious. I don't make such a fuss about 1/10 of a Gen more that it now takes to Self-Care. Gens are still plenty fast and being able to be self-reliant should come at a price. Being injured does little enough as is.

HavelmomDaS1

DocOctober said:

@Poweas said:

@DocOctober said:

@Vietfox said:
@DocOctober said:

@Vietfox said:

@Master said:

@HavelmomDaS1 said:

I by myself and many I know of are playing the "No heal meta" which means basically not equipping selfcare, always using adrenalin and rush the gens injured.

The plan of nerfing selfcare was to slow down the game. This works for the casual and the only "just" survivors, because they will still selfcare even against Legion lol.

However, for the more advanced survivors selfcare became a "wasted" perkslot and this leads to survivors to rush the gens even faster, especially coordinated SWF groups who got 4x adrenalin. 

I was always running adrenalin and only pushed the last gen injured, but lately I push all gens injured as survivor.

What's your opinion? Did the selfcare nerf helped you to slow the game down or are games even faster done cuz everyone is pushing gens injured? As killer I feel SWF games are ending even quicker than before if they have all adrenalin and noone selfcare.



SC hasnt been nerfed, just like DS rework didnt happen and the hatch sloing mechanic has been dismissed

If you guys say that Doc got nerfed because of the changes on Nurse's calling then you must admit that SC got nerfed too since it's related to a healing action.

Who says that? I certainly don't. Only stuff that changed in itself is either buffed or nerfed. SC wasn't nerfed as its values weren't changed. The Doctor wasn't nerfed just because a Perk he has the option of using no longer reveals Snapping Out Of It Survivors. His power wasn't changed.

If anything in that equation, then Nurse's Calling was nerfed.

I agree, but we got several threads of people claiming that Doc got nerfed because of NC. Maybe you didn't, but some others did say that.
About SC its values weren't changed but the healing changes affected that perk indirectly, which is why some people stopped running it.

Because it takes 8 seconds longer to heal? My what an atrocity, must mean the Perk is utter garbage.

And really, it's still omni-present in my games, there are at least 2-3 SCs still.

Are you trolling? It used to take 24 seconds. That was 3/10 of a gen. It was worth healing. Now that is got nerfed to 32 seconds, it takes 4/10 of a gen. That's just dumb to heal. It was before but now it's just blatantly obviously dumb. (Excuse my crappy grammar)

I'm actually quite serious. I don't make such a fuss about 1/10 of a Gen more that it now takes to Self-Care. Gens are still plenty fast and being able to be self-reliant should come at a price. Being injured does little enough as is.

But you realize that the survivors who stopped using selfcare didn't went from 3/10 to 4/10 but straight to 0/10 wasting time and pumping gens? I mean, I'm curious in what region and rank you play that you still see survivors using selfcare, I see only 1-2 using it (and I remember that everyone was using it before the nerf) and those are usually the solos 

Weederick

@DocOctober said:

@OrionsFury4789 said:
DocOctober said:

@OrionsFury4789 said:

fcc2014 said:

Blueberry said:

It was a good idea. The reason it didn't work is because it just further illustrated how strong survivors currently are even without healing and how brokenly fast the gens can be done.

The healing change wasn't the issue, it just made the more serious issue more noticeable. The change was still a good one, SC was way too strong.



No it shows survivors will adapt faster to game changes. Nerf to exhaustion perks followed by nerf to selfcare and killers still complain. Nerf 2 meta killer perks and see what happens.

It's funny they want to talk about killers having to adapt lmao right, I guess we must've imagined all the survivor nerfs over the past two years. I wish some of these people could see what it was like playing killer before with recovering exhaustion, pallets loaded down in maps, faster healing, the old BNP, the old BT, hexes spawning in ridiculously open places, vacuum pallets , dead hard getting you to places to hold the game hostage, true infinites  etc.... I could literally go on with the laundry list of nerfs survivors that have happened since I first started playing killer but yet people still cry, it's getting pretty ridiculous

Sounds to me like you started playing Killer comparably recently. If you look at the game from 2.0.0 onwards and disregard all the buffs Survivors/nerfs Killers had prior to that update, then you lack the bigger picture of why tables have turned now.

I started playing killer on console release date , and buffs? Lol that's a joke , those were more QOL changes than buffs, you sir are extremely biased if you're going to sit here and pretend like it's just as hard to play killer now just like it was two years ago

I've played this game since PC release, always as a 50/50 player, ranked up well over 2000 hours and maintain the Wiki for nearly 2 years now. I know of every buff, nerf, rework and QoL change there ever was in the game.

I will not put up with anyone daring to call me biased.

As for your comment after that:
All in all, playing Killer was easiest in 2016, ranged anywhere from moderate to difficult all throughout 2017 and half of 2018 and is now back to moderate. I never claimed it was difficult, but it also most definitely isn't easy compared to 2016.

Survivor on the other hand was only hard in 2016, when no one knew what the hell they were doing. Ever since that, it's been easy, especially so in a group and still is if you don't [BAD WORD] around and play stupid.

What?!?! Are we playing the same game??
2016 survivors were totally overpowered, 2017 survivors were still strong but the gross imbalances were reduced, 2018 is pretty much ezpz.

Infinites, pallettown, window vacuum, palletvacuum, slooow killervaults, no exhaustion sprintburst, jungle gyms, no obsession ds, instablinds, 60s gens, no gen kicking, no aurareading perks, only whispers/nurses calling/enduring/brutal strength vs 4x Sprintburst/DS/SC/Adrenaline or Iron will or Sabo

Survivor in 2016 was so ez, you could just CHOOSE not to go down. Not exaggerating.
Now the game is balanced

DocOctober

@HavelmomDaS1 said:
DocOctober said:

@Poweas said:

 @DocOctober said:

   @Vietfox said:

  @DocOctober  said:

    @Vietfox said:

    @Master  said:

@HavelmomDaS1 said: I by myself and many I know of are playing the "No heal meta" which means basically not equipping selfcare, always using adrenalin and rush the gens injured.

    The plan of nerfing selfcare was to slow down the game. This works for the casual and the only "just" survivors, because they will still selfcare even against Legion lol.

However, for the more advanced survivors selfcare became a "wasted" perkslot and this leads to survivors to rush the gens even faster, especially coordinated SWF groups who got 4x adrenalin.  I was always running adrenalin and only pushed the last gen injured, but lately I push all gens injured as survivor. What's your opinion? Did the selfcare nerf helped you to slow the game down or are games even faster done cuz everyone is pushing gens injured? As killer I feel SWF games are ending even quicker than before if they have all adrenalin and noone selfcare. SC hasnt been nerfed, just like DS rework didnt happen and the hatch sloing mechanic has been dismissed

If you guys say that Doc got nerfed because of the changes on Nurse's calling then you must admit that SC got nerfed too since it's related to a healing action.

Who says that? I certainly don't. Only stuff that changed in itself is either buffed or nerfed. SC wasn't nerfed as its values weren't changed. The Doctor wasn't nerfed just because a Perk he has the option of using no longer reveals Snapping Out Of It Survivors. His power wasn't changed.

If anything in that equation, then Nurse's Calling was nerfed.

I agree, but we got several threads of people claiming that Doc got nerfed because of NC. Maybe you didn't, but some others did say that.

About SC its values weren't changed but the healing changes affected that perk indirectly, which is why some people stopped running it.

Because it takes 8 seconds longer to heal? My what an atrocity, must mean the Perk is utter garbage.

And really, it's still omni-present in my games, there are at least 2-3 SCs still.

Are you trolling? It used to take 24 seconds. That was 3/10 of a gen. It was worth healing. Now that is got nerfed to 32 seconds, it takes 4/10 of a gen. That's just dumb to heal. It was before but now it's just blatantly obviously dumb. (Excuse my crappy grammar)

I'm actually quite serious. I don't make such a fuss about 1/10 of a Gen more that it now takes to Self-Care. Gens are still plenty fast and being able to be self-reliant should come at a price. Being injured does little enough as is.

But you realize that the survivors who stopped using selfcare didn't went from 3/10 to 4/10 but straight to 0/10 wasting time and pumping gens? I mean, I'm curious in what region and rank you play that you still see survivors using selfcare, I see only 1-2 using it (and I remember that everyone was using it before the nerf) and those are usually the solos 

Red Ranks, Central Europe.

HavelmomDaS1

DocOctober said:

@HavelmomDaS1 said:
DocOctober said:

@Poweas said:

 @DocOctober said:

   @Vietfox said:

  @DocOctober  said:

    @Vietfox said:

    @Master  said:

@HavelmomDaS1 said: I by myself and many I know of are playing the "No heal meta" which means basically not equipping selfcare, always using adrenalin and rush the gens injured.

    The plan of nerfing selfcare was to slow down the game. This works for the casual and the only "just" survivors, because they will still selfcare even against Legion lol.

However, for the more advanced survivors selfcare became a "wasted" perkslot and this leads to survivors to rush the gens even faster, especially coordinated SWF groups who got 4x adrenalin.  I was always running adrenalin and only pushed the last gen injured, but lately I push all gens injured as survivor. What's your opinion? Did the selfcare nerf helped you to slow the game down or are games even faster done cuz everyone is pushing gens injured? As killer I feel SWF games are ending even quicker than before if they have all adrenalin and noone selfcare. SC hasnt been nerfed, just like DS rework didnt happen and the hatch sloing mechanic has been dismissed

If you guys say that Doc got nerfed because of the changes on Nurse's calling then you must admit that SC got nerfed too since it's related to a healing action.

Who says that? I certainly don't. Only stuff that changed in itself is either buffed or nerfed. SC wasn't nerfed as its values weren't changed. The Doctor wasn't nerfed just because a Perk he has the option of using no longer reveals Snapping Out Of It Survivors. His power wasn't changed.

If anything in that equation, then Nurse's Calling was nerfed.

I agree, but we got several threads of people claiming that Doc got nerfed because of NC. Maybe you didn't, but some others did say that.

About SC its values weren't changed but the healing changes affected that perk indirectly, which is why some people stopped running it.

Because it takes 8 seconds longer to heal? My what an atrocity, must mean the Perk is utter garbage.

And really, it's still omni-present in my games, there are at least 2-3 SCs still.

Are you trolling? It used to take 24 seconds. That was 3/10 of a gen. It was worth healing. Now that is got nerfed to 32 seconds, it takes 4/10 of a gen. That's just dumb to heal. It was before but now it's just blatantly obviously dumb. (Excuse my crappy grammar)

I'm actually quite serious. I don't make such a fuss about 1/10 of a Gen more that it now takes to Self-Care. Gens are still plenty fast and being able to be self-reliant should come at a price. Being injured does little enough as is.

But you realize that the survivors who stopped using selfcare didn't went from 3/10 to 4/10 but straight to 0/10 wasting time and pumping gens? I mean, I'm curious in what region and rank you play that you still see survivors using selfcare, I see only 1-2 using it (and I remember that everyone was using it before the nerf) and those are usually the solos 

Red Ranks, Central Europe.

Do you play usually at day or night time? I'm in central Europe aswell, I'm really curious now lol

DocOctober

@HavelmomDaS1 said:
DocOctober said:

@HavelmomDaS1 said:

DocOctober said:

@Poweas said:

@DocOctober said: @Vietfox said: @DocOctober said: @Vietfox said: @Master said:

@HavelmomDaS1 said:    I by myself and many I know of are playing the "No heal meta" which means basically not equipping selfcare, always using adrenalin and rush the gens injured.

 The plan of nerfing selfcare was to slow down the game. This works for the casual and the only "just" survivors, because they will still selfcare even against Legion lol.  

However, for the more advanced survivors selfcare became a "wasted" perkslot and this leads to survivors to rush the gens even faster, especially coordinated SWF groups who got 4x adrenalin.     I was always running adrenalin and only pushed the last gen injured, but lately I push all gens injured as survivor.    What's your opinion? Did the selfcare nerf helped you to slow the game down or are games even faster done cuz everyone is pushing gens injured? As killer I feel SWF games are ending even quicker than before if they have all adrenalin and noone selfcare.        SC hasnt been nerfed, just like DS rework didnt happen and the hatch sloing mechanic has been dismissed

If you guys say that Doc got nerfed because of the changes on Nurse's calling then you must admit that SC got nerfed too since it's related to a healing action.



Who says that? I certainly don't. Only stuff that changed in itself is either buffed or nerfed. SC wasn't nerfed as its values weren't changed. The Doctor wasn't nerfed just because a Perk he has the option of using no longer reveals Snapping Out Of It Survivors. His power wasn't changed.

If anything in that equation, then Nurse's Calling was nerfed.



I agree, but we got several threads of people claiming that Doc got nerfed because of NC. Maybe you didn't, but some others did say that.

About SC its values weren't changed but the healing changes affected that perk indirectly, which is why some people stopped running it.



Because it takes 8 seconds longer to heal? My what an atrocity, must mean the Perk is utter garbage.

And really, it's still omni-present in my games, there are at least 2-3 SCs still.



Are you trolling? It used to take 24 seconds. That was 3/10 of a gen. It was worth healing. Now that is got nerfed to 32 seconds, it takes 4/10 of a gen. That's just dumb to heal. It was before but now it's just blatantly obviously dumb. (Excuse my crappy grammar)



I'm actually quite serious. I don't make such a fuss about 1/10 of a Gen more that it now takes to Self-Care. Gens are still plenty fast and being able to be self-reliant should come at a price. Being injured does little enough as is.

But you realize that the survivors who stopped using selfcare didn't went from 3/10 to 4/10 but straight to 0/10 wasting time and pumping gens? I mean, I'm curious in what region and rank you play that you still see survivors using selfcare, I see only 1-2 using it (and I remember that everyone was using it before the nerf) and those are usually the solos 

Red Ranks, Central Europe.

Do you play usually at day or night time? I'm in central Europe aswell, I'm really curious now lol

Night.

Vietfox

Lol @DocOctober @HavelmomDaS1
You both from Germany?

Weederick

Not healing gives 32s of gentime.
If 2 survivors do gens while you get chased, you just have to waste 16s while chasing with your extra health state to make it worth healing.
Or 10s if every other survivor does gens. You'd have to be very bad at chases to not make your second health state worth it.

DocOctober

@Vietfox said:
Lol @DocOctober @HavelmomDaS1
You both from Germany?

No, but that's as much as I'll disclose.

Vietfox

@DocOctober said:

@Vietfox said:
Lol @DocOctober @HavelmomDaS1
You both from Germany?

No, but that's as much as I'll disclose.

Okay okay privacy goes first, i think the same way.

unknown

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