Oni 180s removed in PTB?

NarkoTri1er

well guys, BHVR did it, they gutted skill expression for another killer on PTB. Unless this wasn't intended change (which i hope isn't) time to move on to another game.

Can anyone from BHVR tell if this is truly intentional or not?

PetTheDoggo

@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:

https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3895221#Comment_3895221

+

https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3895217#Comment_3895217

It was entertaining at first, now its just annoying. Can you two take it to PMs with your love/hate romance? You're disturbing the animals. Neither of you are even making valid points anymore, you're just trying to one up the other.

Sorry, it was highly amusing for me.

PetTheDoggo

@NarkoTri1er said:

https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3895353#Comment_3895353

majority of community was always speaking how they love facing Oni and how he is one of the most well balanced killers in the game. Now suddenly, when 180s are removed in PTB, somehow he was problematic

Nah, just people with "it's exploit when I am not the one doing it, otherwise tech" crawled out of basement.

UndeddJester

@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:

https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3895314#Comment_3895314

Now this is a topic for discussion.

…always supporting narrowing the PC/console divide…

I can totally agree with this. But my question for this is if narrowing the gap between the two harms the game/character, when is it too much?

If this oni thing is solely due to console vs M&kb, the end result would be console having what they already have, and PC getting less.

There is no net gain in this equation, and as someone who doesn't play Oni but has a few Oni friends, this kind of sucks.

Thoughts?

Aye, that's my thinking, I always expected that if this bug was ever fixed, something would be worked into Oni to make it partially basekit.

Something a little more restrained and reasonable than a full 180 flick, but decent and strong that both platforms get to benefit from...

Instead PC got brought down to my level on console... and that leaves me baffled, cause console Oni is pretty ass 😶

JPLongstreet

@NarkoTri1er said:

https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3895319#Comment_3895319

fun thing is, BHVR recently announced keyboard + mouse support for dbd on consoles, yet they still chose to do this

The timing is unfortunate, given that announcement yeah.

Perhaps it has actually taken them this long to "fix" this?

NarkoTri1er

@anxmari said:

So, Ihave something to say about this. I'll start with my story of getting to know ONI

I came to the game in the spring of 2017, and until 2020 I was the main Billy, as you know, in 2020 he was reworked. And I discovered a new character for me, it was ONI, I started playing him and studying his mechanics a lot.

Then one day I was banned (for no reason) and I left the game for more than half a year.

But what made me come back and forgive such an unfair act?

Right! It was the same character called "ONI"

I realized for myself that I was ready to play this game only because of him and he was the only thing that kept me here and made me endure the whole nightmare that was happening in the game all these years, every time another patch came out, simplifying the game on the survivors side, I said to myself: "the main thing is that this game has my favorite character...." I loved him so much that even when Billy was made strong again and even stronger than before, I was no longer interested in him.

From 2020 to this day, I call myself "Oni main" because I have played a huge number of hours on this character and the potential of this killer is fully revealed in my hands.

Now I will try to explain why removing 180° from ONI is a bad idea.

ONI is one of the most difficult characters in the game to learn, and appearance of "180° " made this killer more difficult. But this difficulty was justified, because if you spend enough amount of time on mastering it, this character becomes so strong in your hands.

BUT, this "180° " mechanic has never been unbalanced, of course, it gave its value, but it did not make the killer something extremely strong. In other words, this mechanic doesn't make killer too opprasive and unbalanced for rework, as it is too difficult for learning, so small amount of players can use it and that's why it doesn't affect on game balance. To this day, he cannot compete in strength with characters like blight, Nurse or Billy. I also see in advance that it will be impossible to defeat strong survivors using only "90° " And we can also compare ONI with such characters as The Good Guy or The Spirit.

The ONI player must accumulate his ability himself and use it wisely, accordingly it (ability) must initially be stronger than that of The Good Guy or The Spirit. After all, on these characters the player will use its ability most of the game and if he unsuccessfully uses it, he practically does not lose anything, because a small amount of time will pass before he can press m2 and use it again until he succeeds in doing what he wants.But this cannot be said about ONI, although his ability lasts longer, but player can also use it in a wrong way due to his inexperience or mistake, and if the use of ONI’S ability does not lead to the fact that at least one survivor has been downed, then the ONI player will most likely lose the match.

So if ONI worked like The Spirit, 90° would be enough for him, but he works completely differently, so 180° is an integral part of him, without which he will not be able to compete with the survivors above average level.

Good survivors already know how to play against "180° " and if you remove what they have learned to resist, defeating ONI will not cause them any problems.

As far as I understand, this was done to "equalize" players with a controller and a computer. But why remove this mechanic when you can give it to both sides.

I think it's wrong when developers first add it and then remove it with no reason, despite the fact that players have studied it for tens, hundreds and thousands of hours and it turns out as if they were wasting their time on it.

I decided for myself that if this update reaches the main servers, then I will leave this game once and for all and it is at this point that my long (almost 8 years) stay here will end.

agree with every point.

I would also like to add that Oni was the only thing holding me back from completely abandoning this game once and for all. Now with this change, if it's truly an intentional move, i can finally leave this game once and for all.

kit_mason

@NarkoTri1er said:

https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3895312#Comment_3895312

180s make him too powerful?

A killer that is M1 for the most part and hardcore relies on basic M1 chase rules to be even able to earn his power (which can be abused by survivors in order to delay his first hit by significant margin to the point where he gets power too late) and has a power that is supposed to be strong (he is already strong in his power with or without 180s) is somehow too strong just because of 180s?

Are we even playing the same game?

He has a rough early because he's a snowball killer. You play Oni so there's no way you don't know that. He's M1 for the early but should build enough pressure to mostly keep his power in mid and late game. You build for this outcome in Oni games.

To imply that this weak early being leveraged by survivors is justification for keeping an exploit only usable by certain Oni players makes little sense to me, so I hope I'm misunderstanding you.

kit_mason

@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:

https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3895371#Comment_3895371

And as someone said earlier, they're adding KB&M for consoles. So… this makes zero sense.

Friend hypothesizes they are trying to lower the player pool so there's reason to bring in dbd2 with a new engine, code, etc.

Im not sure Im on board with that, as that gives BHVR a LOT of credit. But I suppose anything is possible.

Them adding KB&M for consoles doesn't mean everyone's gonna stop using controller. Some people can't use M&KB for one reason or another.

crogers271

@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:

https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3895371#Comment_3895371

And as someone said earlier, they're adding KB&M for consoles. So… this makes zero sense.

Friend hypothesizes they are trying to lower the player pool so there's reason to bring in dbd2 with a new engine, code, etc.

Im not sure Im on board with that, as that gives BHVR a LOT of credit. But I suppose anything is possible.

Friend hypothesizes they are trying to lower the player pool so there's reason to bring in dbd2 with a new engine, code, etc.

That would be very silly to sabotage a very profitable game to have to renegotiate all of your licenses and hope the players come back and buy new stuff. Live service is a really tough market to actually get a playerbase for.

Even temporary pauses like we are in for QoL initiative are extremely risky.

tak47888

Good thing about it is that I now really have no reason to come back to DBD at all.

Ryuhi

@kit_mason said:

https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3895107#Comment_3895107

As I said in my original post, it's an exploit because it is both unintended and unfair. Firstly, in the traditional sense: my own play both as and against Oni makes me believe he is very well balanced without 180ing and too powerful when using it, but secondly in the sense that it is unfair for controller players that Oni continues to exist in a state where they cannot under any cirucmstances utilize the same resources in power that a mouse and keyboard player can.

I sincerely apologise for whatever I did that made you think I was speaking with the intent to leave Oni in an undeservedly weak state - what that act was, I would hope you would share, so I don't come across as biased like that again.

As I said in my original post, it's an exploit because it is both unintended and unfair.

And I completely disagree with it being unfair, which is why I brought up examples of actually unfair exploits like locker clipping and backpack nurse. The only "unfair" parts of flicks are that not all control methods can use them, and that the survivor's pathing requirements are less forgiving. Flicks don't just teleport you to the survivor and auto aim onto their face, they require accuracy and making a hard read. Perfectly dodgable if you route well enough in advance, but its supposed to be punishing players who wait until the last second and hope that he misses.

Your own anecdotes are perfectly fine, and you're allowed to have your opinion. However as per my original point, I disagree with calling flicks an "exploit" when there have been many, many exploits on both sides that were far more impactful and actually unfair. This is more like saying huntress needs clunkier aiming specifically because it would make her hatchets both easier to dodge, and would remove the gap between controller and M&K controls: A resolution the userbase would understandably be upset with. If you consider it on that level of problematic then fine, you're entitled to it, but I personally don't think they have ever been remotely touching on gamebreaking in any way. Just upsetting people who don't believe they should have been able to be hit, which is something that happens anyway a thousand times a match.

[Deleted User]

I think if they're not going to make the 180 a feature then they ought to look into whether adjusting Demon Strike's object hit detection or Demon Dash's turn rate are viable routes to making him feel less clunky/more modern. Or at least something along those lines. Because speaking outside of balance I do think he's in an unfortunate spot given the growing roster of dash killers that just feel better to play.

NarkoTri1er

IT'S JUST A MISTAKE ON BHVR PART, I REPEAT, IT'S JUST A MISTAKE ON BHVR PART.

ONI FLICKS ARE SAFE, HOPEFULLY FOR ETERNITY <333

rampagestreet25

they removed both oni and chucky flicks in the same update (bhvr is slowly making the game more boring for killer mains) it will get to a point where we killer mains will move onto another game lmao