Survivor-Caused 3-Gens. No Big Deal Anymore?
The proposed '3-gen solution' seems like it should genuinely nerf 3-genning killers while leaving 'normal' killers unaffected, but what about 3-gens caused by the survivors?
It seems like if survivors 3-gen themselves, it's no big deal anymore since they can just play it slow and defensive and burn through the killer's kicks.
This is exactly what many were worried about, as survivors 3-genning themselves and the killer capitalising on it was seen as fair. Now survivors can just do whatever gens they want and don't need to worry.
Comments
Literally never said that. Don't spread misinformation. Also, maybe you're new to the game, but survivors have a variety of tools to escape a killer if they were on a gen. We aren't talking about just things like surge. Killers will want to obviously kick a gen that's being focused on. If that's the only gen survivors are touching, then it's not a true camping situation - it's the only objective to defend. Survivors can entirely get 5%+ in then hoof it the moment they hear a terror radius. Killer will want to start regressing it. Not to mention, if the killer chases, they got 3 more survivors that pop right back onto the gen. Forcing 8 regressions is easy. The only alternative would be for the killer to not kick the gen, but that's practically handing it over at that point.
No matter how you cut it, this update will absolutely affect killers who are not campijg a 3 gen.
I also just want to quickly mention that your statement isn't exactly true at all either- Legit Eruption users who don't intentionally guard 3-gens have a much higher kick rate than normally expected because Eruption is designed with the intention of kicking multiple gens at a time regardless if they're hardly progressed or not and with the fact that a single activation of Eruption requires TWO regression events at a time that makes it to where you can only kick gens 4 times each which makes that even worst.
If this system is TRULY meant to prevent 3-gens then y'all should tie the system SPECIFICALLY to the "Damage Generator" action(aka kicking) since the primary perks for holding 3-gens are kicking perks such as Call Of Brine, Overcharge, and Eruption and tying this system to kicks exclusively would still prevent the ability to hold 3-gens without SEVERELY punishing legit Eruption users who use the perk normally as intended. Plus, if you really think about it, who's gonna be using Scourge Hook: Pain Resonance to hold a 3-gen? It just doesn't make much sense to punish normal perk users for the wrong reasons.
it's a perfectly apt summary of what you said
you presented a scenario where one specific gen was the only gen survivors were going after and that they went down to surge 8 times next to it, and then you described it as ridiculous that you might have to let that gen get completed in that extremely specific scenario. sorry you don't like the accurate summary of what you said
I think if we say it's an issue that a killer prolongs the game too long by doing a 3 gen game, the same should be applied for the survivors doing the same by being overly cautious.
A distinction without a difference. defending the gens is important to make sure the survivors stay in the trial so you can kill them. you can't just ignore them, they are always something you gotta pay attention to. and you can argue that a 3 gen killer also does their job, since the 1 hour game stop kills the survivors.
saying "just don't get in that situation" is not solving the situation. I could say that to a survivor that get slugged all game, but what is that helping?
It is usually a niche case, but as it goes with these, if someone shows it is actually good, others will mimic, and it will become more common to go for it. like how more people did the 3 gen thing after that one video came out.
if that is your impression.
why does a killer need to consider that holding a 3 gen is bad? that is just contradictory to what should be logical. it's like if picking an item from a chest could be bad... it just doesn't compute.
nothing really. it's just that no one asked what it is yet.
"don't get into the situation" is not an answer to the situation. it's just saying "git gud and it won't happen" which doesn't help.
imagine someone said "my house is burning down, what do I do?" and the answer was "don't let your house begin burning down"... at least with this one you can tell what the is issue right?
ok
ok
yes 4. less and taking a long chase is way more excusable.
more likely 2 gens. maybe 3. why would you ever think 1?
making progress is not guaranteed. there's 3 options that I see.
-you can patrol and hope someone will screw up and leave too late, giving a better start on the chase.
-or take a really bad start on a chase, that they maybe will have few resources or will screw up allowing you to get them before the last gen pops.
-or you never even see anyone and have to chose between patrolling again or just looking around hoping to find whoever was around. which is a thing that already happens from time to time (but usually with just 2 survivors left) and from my experience no one likes it.
this to me just creates the same type of game that a 3 gen killer does. one side is going all in on time tactics, the other is not having any fun. which should get the same treatment. if one is bad, both should be.
if you say so.
But then most players would hate the EGC, wouldn't they?
It tremendously limits the potential of interesting plays happening after the gates are opened, because it added a timer, and yet disliking the EGC is an extremely unpopular opinion.
i love 3 genning my friends on purpose lol :D
Haven't really pointed otherwise
Survivors just ignore the mechanic entirely by just 99ing the gates, which is complained about.
Whose going to complain about a mechanic they can choose to ignore and that rarely ever matters?
Whose going to complain about a mechanic they can choose to ignore and that rarely ever matters?
Then we should not see many complaints about the new anti 3-gen mechanic. Hopefully that will be the case.
as long as it rarely ever matters sure. Some people are saying that's not the case but we'll see once it hits live and isn't in the mess that is the PTB.
If it hits live exactly the way it is on the PTB, we shouldn't have problems. But we have to wait and see.
What do you think the EGC mechanic for?
We've moved from one survivor managing to dodge the killer 8 times without ever being caught despite constantly hanging around the same area to a whole gaggle of 'em.
Killer competence in these scenarios keeps dropping and yet...
Also, if they can 'easily put in 5%+', then this'd be an unstoppable tactic in the current game. And yet no one pulls it off?
What do you think that has to do with circumventing the mechanic to begin with thus not having anything to complain about?
That's like complaining about the DC penalty. Who cares when you can just self sacrifice and ignore it anyway.
"What do you think the DC penalty is for?"
Does it matter when you can just easily ignore it?
5% isn’t very powerful in the current game, because the current game doesn’t have damage immune generators. If survivors are only repairing in 5% bursts on live, then the killer can always just kick the generators and reverse that small amount of progress.
5% bursts of repairing is only powerful when generators can become damage immune, because that means any % of repairing, no matter how small, gets permanently locked in, and therefore can eventually reach 100% if the game extends long enough.
otherwise survivors don't really need to interact with the killer, which I think their objective should incorporate it beyond saving teammates. (I know saying "doing gens interacts with the killer" is a bit of a push in logic, but they are in an area where the killer should be around so it promotes interaction at some point...better than nothing)
if you can chase survivors and make them waste resources at normal pace, you are not at the scenario I described. just a regular game.
considering the vast majority of my matches end before 15 min, this timer shouldn't matter to most games I would assume.
now, if you don't wanna just end the match at that time without anything, you can always add something like a special egc that triggers. maybe lasts half the time, killer sees the aura of the survivors for 5 seconds and survivors sees the killers aura for 1 second. nothing hides this aura reveal.
for lore reasons we can say the entity got annoyed and decided that you either finish it now or it will.
I believe this would solve any potential issue with anyone dragging out the game. because it now has a set time to end regardless.
You're not kicking for 5% though, and if the killer is not able to start ANY chases, that means the killer gets 0 progress, while survivors still make some progress themselves! And a lot of regression perks like Pop and Surge would not come into play either!
This tactic sounds infallible!
It doesn’t matter when the killer kicks the generators. If the survivors are doing a strategy of “repair for short bursts to time, then excessively hide”, then eventually the generator progress will be high enough for the killer to kick, and this process can repeat itself until the generator is damage immune.
No, you don't get what I mean.
The killer currently kicks for 2.5%. So if survivors can easily do 5% of repairs and then hide so the killer literally physically can't find them, they can just do that forever! Yeah, the killer gets infinite kicks, but that doesn't matter, this tactic still makes it impossible for the killer to win.
Excessive hiding is therefor surely the way to go on live servers and the absolute top strategy across the board.
So you agree that excessive hiding needs to be nerfed or punished somehow, because it makes it impossible for the killer to win?
Except they have been on the ptb, and people are posting about it in the ptb feedback.
I think you missed my sarcasm. Nobody employs this strategy because it doesn't work.
People are complaining about gen dribbling, which is the opposite problem.
No, you're not getting it. What RpTheHotrod is describing is a tactic that -should- also be operable on live. Not as effectively, but it would still work. And it would be more efficient than banking on a long chase.
What you have been positing here is that a killer consistently fails to find any survivor for a very long time, despite those survivors also consistently getting work done on gens. That doesn't require a regression stop. That's feasible on live, too. Possibly more effective, even, since gen-kicking doesn't do as much. The killer would need to kick 16 times to get the equivalent value.
What I and others have been trying to tell you is that the scenario you are worried about is not a feasible scenario. It's not a functional tactic. If it was, it would be on live, too.
You are just constantly lowering the bar of competence for the killer, and then insisting that his rock-bottom MMR is valid reason to redo the entire system.
only if you think survivors have no agency over how the game goes.
do you often use perks that happens to help with immersed survivors?
Survivors do have agency, but less than the killer. Its more of who does what then the other side reacts then repeats till the matches end. Survivors try this stalling tactic? The killer can simply chase them down and force the survivors to react by either doing the gens now, or someones going on hook and they got to deal with that while the killer comes back looking for someone new. If they're doing bite sized bits and assuming the killer notices, then usually the killer chasing should either catch someone or quickly burn resources for the next chase which they can easily find. Lose a gen now, get hooks later.
exactly, the killer is kinda forced into bad choices. similarly to how survivors were against the 3 gen skull merchant. it's all bad choices but you just gotta brute force one of them and hope for the best.
if survivors doing this becomes a thing, I hope it gets a similar treatment. that is basically what it boils down to.
they can still play safe around it, so they are far enough away from the gen to reach some resources.
Apologies for the delay, all of us been busy
Kinda flips everything on its head don't it~ Amusement aside yea, if it does become a problem for the average players then something should be done. Till then sit and watch the fireworks.
The killer can play smart as well as survivors may end up stretching resources too far for safety. The killer is against people, not picture perfect bots, and humans have a history of screwing up.
We find it funny how it went from saying that Pulsar said to take a chase to this