Why is toxicity seemingly accepted in this community?

Let's first define toxicity, so that we're on the same page:

  • Slugging a survivor and bleeding them out for 4 minutes, even when there are hooks nearby and no threat of sabo
  • Camping and tunneling on purpose to be toxic, and throwing the game in the process, as long as the survivor dies (Camping and tunneling isn't always toxic, sometimes it's a strategy albeit a damaging one)
  • T-bagging in the exit gate and or doing rushed actions to get the killers attention when they've lost
  • Hitting on hook multiple times, and not just to stop the scream
  • Being nasty in the end game chat

Any time a survivor or killer is seen doing these things, the general consensus is to "grow thicker skin" and "get over it" however, this is just not helpful. I find myself trying to ignore these things, but when they happen over and over, it is THE one thing that makes me want to Alt + F4. And I'm not the only one.

There are other games where this type of behavior is not allowed and where you can even be banned for it. Why is that not the case here? Why doesn't BHVR try to at least encourage people to be good sports and be kind to the people they face?

The killer you just demolished is a real person, with feelings. You don't have to rub it in. Neither do you need to rub it in when you tunnel one person out of the game at 5 gens and hit them on hook as they die, only to tell them "loop better" in the end game chat.

I know, I sound like I'm whining. And yeah, I am. It's because I just cannot understand why this has been going on for so long and still no attempt has been made to try to rectify the problem. Toxicity is a very detrimental thing to online games, but also mental health.

It keeps people who simply do not have the means to "have thick skin" from playing a game they bought and are trying to enjoy. I can personally say that the one thing burning me out of this game is not the sweaty "high MMR" players who 4k or escape every match, it's the toxic ones that go out of their way to ruin my gameplay experience.

It's not difficult to be a kind person. There is no excuse and it should be cracked down on.

Comments

  • @LittleBigSunset said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/390687/why-is-toxicity-seemingly-accepted-in-this-community

    I'll say first of all I sympathise with you and how you're feeling. I went through a particularly awful depressive episode a while back and tried to use this game as a way of comforting myself and it backfired enormously with the toxicity that was running rampant at the time. Something I've learnt through that is that this game is NOT one to play if you're feeling low or going through tough periods, unless maybe you're playing with friends. When you're playing and your own and it feels like some of the killers you're getting are just out to make you miserable (not saying this is necessarily true - but it can be easy to interpret it that way when you're feeling low) it just makes you feel worse, and the only way to stop it is to just stop playing.

    This is what I did. I used to play the game at least every other day for a couple hours but then I didn't touch it for weeks. Didn't touch Cage. Had a tiny bit of interest in Alien but played maybe a couple games. And I played for a couple hours tonight. And I felt a lot better. Had a game where a Blight with Iri vial and Alchemist Ring went out of his way to slug everyone at five gens and normally it would have tilted me but I just didn't care. I died and moved on to the next game and they went considerably better.

    I'm sharing that little anecdote to show that taking a break, as cliche as it is, may drastically help you in how you approach and feel about the game when you come back.

    I'd also say that while there are obvious examples of toxicity (bleed out, beating on hook, teabagging, endgame chat) there are others that may be more accidental for lack of better phrasing. Example: in a game I had today I went back into the match to grab a flame turret to bring back to the gate to get extra BP. The killer was nowhere to be seen, but it took me a while to get the turret and bring it back to the door. While I was only doing it for the 1000BP, the killer may have thought I was waiting in the door and teabagging till I got run out. So I may have been seen as toxic, albeit accidentally. You could say the same about tunnelling. Maybe the killer just happens to find you three times in a row and can't afford to lose the pressure. Maybe they didn't know you were death hook. It's whatever.

    And you're going to get killers and survivors that equally go out of their way to be obvious asshats just because they can. You can't stop them and the devs can't really either so the only thing you can change is how you respond to them. And, like I said, this is particularly difficult to do if you're already annoyed/upset at something else and are looking to DBD as a break from that.

    I suggest taking a break and coming back to the game a while later. If it still bothers you the same way then, find another game to enjoy. We play games to have fun, not to make us sad, and I don't want to see you fall into the same depressive loop that I did for a time. Watching streamers play this game (I recommend a guy called Slate) is much more relaxing than playing the game yourself, I find.

    Take care!

    I've taken many breaks from this game, even one where I didn't play for a year. But the problem is that I love this game and I want to enjoy it. When I constantly meet insufferable players who has the mindset equivalent of a 12 year old's it's hard to enjoy the game.

    I am aware that I can't control what other people do and can only change how I react, but in all honesty that still isn't helpful and in my opinion it's still a problem that BHVR doesn't do anything at all to combat toxicity. It's not as easy to just "turn off" your feelings.

    I'm a broken record at this point, so I'll just agree to disagree with people who think "you shouldn't let it bother you" is helpful advice. That's what teachers say to victims of bullying, and that hasn't made the bullying any less traumatizing.

  • @OneNineTwoNine said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3537731#Comment_3537731

    I've taken many breaks from this game, even one where I didn't play for a year. But the problem is that I love this game and I want to enjoy it. When I constantly meet insufferable players who has the mindset equivalent of a 12 year old's it's hard to enjoy the game.

    I am aware that I can't control what other people do and can only change how I react, but in all honesty that still isn't helpful and in my opinion it's still a problem that BHVR doesn't do anything at all to combat toxicity. It's not as easy to just "turn off" your feelings.

    I'm a broken record at this point, so I'll just agree to disagree with people who think "you shouldn't let it bother you" is helpful advice. That's what teachers say to victims of bullying, and that hasn't made the bullying any less traumatizing.

    Not very nice to boil down the genuine advice I'm trying to give you as "you shouldn't let it bother you". You know full well I'm not just saying that.

    Sure, the devs could do more to combat toxicity, but I don't think at this point there's any evidence that they will/are going to put a system in place for it, especially one that works.

    So ultimately you can't control the people who kill your enjoyment for the game, you know they're still going to be there, so it becomes a situation where you determine what effect they have on your experience. I'm not saying it should be that way, but that's how it is. You don't want to keep throwing yourself at a brick wall in the hopes that eventually you'll smash through it. It's not worth it.

    If you play DBD you're going to run into toxic players. It's inevitable. You need to decide whether or not it's worth still playing the game you enjoy even if you run the risk of having toxic games.

    (And as someone who was heavily bullied growing up, that comparison isn't warranted. Bullying is a consistent, systematic form of harassment that interrupts your everyday school life and can mess you up growing up. Toxicity in a video game can be upsetting but it's very easy to remove yourself from that upsetting environment. Bullying can feel almost inescapable.)

  • @LittleBigSunset said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3537880#Comment_3537880

    Not very nice to boil down the genuine advice I'm trying to give you as "you shouldn't let it bother you". You know full well I'm not just saying that.

    Sure, the devs could do more to combat toxicity, but I don't think at this point there's any evidence that they will/are going to put a system in place for it, especially one that works.

    So ultimately you can't control the people who kill your enjoyment for the game, you know they're still going to be there, so it becomes a situation where you determine what effect they have on your experience. I'm not saying it should be that way, but that's how it is. You don't want to keep throwing yourself at a brick wall in the hopes that eventually you'll smash through it. It's not worth it.

    If you play DBD you're going to run into toxic players. It's inevitable. You need to decide whether or not it's worth still playing the game you enjoy even if you run the risk of having toxic games.

    (And as someone who was heavily bullied growing up, that comparison isn't warranted. Bullying is a consistent, systematic form of harassment that interrupts your everyday school life and can mess you up growing up. Toxicity in a video game can be upsetting but it's very easy to remove yourself from that upsetting environment. Bullying can feel almost inescapable.)

    I'm sorry, it wasn't aimed at you. I genuinely just kinda released all my thoughts on the replies in this thread as a whole into that post. I apologize. The first paragraph was aimed at you, the last two were not.

    As for the bullying thing, it wasn't meant to be a comparison. It was just meant to highlight that when people say "don't let it bother you" it's not helpful. I was also relentlessly bullied as an autistic person with ADHD. I know what it's like, and yeah it's nowhere close to toxicity in a video game.

  • People on the internet are ***holes when they can be anonymous. The ***hole factor goes up when the competition of online gaming is added. It goes up a notch further when the game in question's entire existence is based on us vs. them.

    So it is just a perfect storm to witness toxic behaviour.

  • @OneNineTwoNine said:

    Let's first define toxicity, so that we're on the same page:

    • Slugging a survivor and bleeding them out for 4 minutes, even when there are hooks nearby and no threat of sabo
    • Camping and tunneling on purpose to be toxic, and throwing the game in the process, as long as the survivor dies (Camping and tunneling isn't always toxic, sometimes it's a strategy albeit a damaging one)
    • T-bagging in the exit gate and or doing rushed actions to get the killers attention when they've lost
    • Hitting on hook multiple times, and not just to stop the scream
    • Being nasty in the end game chat

    Any time a survivor or killer is seen doing these things, the general consensus is to "grow thicker skin" and "get over it" however, this is just not helpful. I find myself trying to ignore these things, but when they happen over and over, it is THE one thing that makes me want to Alt + F4. And I'm not the only one.

    There are other games where this type of behavior is not allowed and where you can even be banned for it. Why is that not the case here? Why doesn't BHVR try to at least encourage people to be good sports and be kind to the people they face?

    The killer you just demolished is a real person, with feelings. You don't have to rub it in. Neither do you need to rub it in when you tunnel one person out of the game at 5 gens and hit them on hook as they die, only to tell them "loop better" in the end game chat.

    I know, I sound like I'm whining. And yeah, I am. It's because I just cannot understand why this has been going on for so long and still no attempt has been made to try to rectify the problem. Toxicity is a very detrimental thing to online games, but also mental health.

    It keeps people who simply do not have the means to "have thick skin" from playing a game they bought and are trying to enjoy. I can personally say that the one thing burning me out of this game is not the sweaty "high MMR" players who 4k or escape every match, it's the toxic ones that go out of their way to ruin my gameplay experience.

    It's not difficult to be a kind person. There is no excuse and it should be cracked down on.

    We have a toxicity problem because there are so many people that label just about every killer strategy as ALWAYS toxic (camping, slugging, tunneling, 3 gen, etc), and demand BHVR to fix these things, and expect the solutions to be 100% nerfs on the killer side.

    Meanwhile, the list of survivor toxic stuff doesn't even include literal bully squads, that purposely revolve their entire gameplay around making the killer as miserable as possible. In fact, the list of survivor toxic stuff is usually a bunch of useless things that don't really affect gameplay, like taunting at exit gates, or being mean in post game chat.

  • @OneNineTwoNine said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3537899#Comment_3537899

    I'm sorry, it wasn't aimed at you. I genuinely just kinda released all my thoughts on the replies in this thread as a whole into that post. I apologize. The first paragraph was aimed at you, the last two were not.

    As for the bullying thing, it wasn't meant to be a comparison. It was just meant to highlight that when people say "don't let it bother you" it's not helpful. I was also relentlessly bullied as an autistic person with ADHD. I know what it's like, and yeah it's nowhere close to toxicity in a video game.

    It's okay! :) I understand that it can be frustrating. I hope your experience with the game fares better soon.

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