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Nurse is out of control

Nerfnurseplz Nerfnurseplz
in General Discussions

With a very low skill ceiling with maximum reward for doing nothing since the changes nurse is unbearable to play against people can say otherwise but she really is even people like hens are complaining about it and I’ve for sure seen a lot more nurses The nurse is a very poorly designed killer that negates any sort of recourse a survivor has other than luck you go one way she goes the other break line of sight and hope she does not blink on top of you but with 2-3 blinks it’s very easy my solo queue team will give up all the time but ya know devs dead hard was the problem and I agree with healing but honestly you take away a good recourse it’s one of the only ways to stop a nurse from sniping you out of the game same with spirit blight ect these killers just feel unbearable camping and tunnelling is more rampant than ever so is Gen rushing do you not get you are killing you are killing the game for solo survivors or do you just not care and want to appease who ever cries the loudest cause guess what killer mains are already asking for more nerfs and complaining just why add killers that literally break all physics of the game if you are gonna try to “balance” it the whole reason dbd was fun was because it was a goofy party game with lots of cheese moments now it just feels like a sweat fest

Comments

  • Pulsar Pulsar

    Just had a Nurse send us to Midwich.

    Very enjoyable experience tbh. The match was over in 15 seconds, way more preferable than the hour long Dull Merchant games.

  • Nerfnurseplz Nerfnurseplz

    @birdnippies said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/372885/nurse-is-out-of-control

    You should learn how to use punctuation. It's the way people communicate once they get into middle school.

    Also I don't think you're equipped to say there have been more nurse killers "since the changes", seeing as how this is day 1 of those changes and you've probably played 10 matches. I played all day and only saw one nurse. A bad one. So do you see how easy it is for small sample spaces do corrupt the data?

    You really think I care about my punctuation on a forum post I’m not gonna argue because I’ll get banned but you can’t invalidate my experience because you haven’t seen more than one nurse different servers mmr Ect

  • Nerfnurseplz Nerfnurseplz

    @TheWheelOfCheese said:

    I am absolutely shocked that after getting all of the good slowdown perks nerfed, people are back to complaining about Nurse.

    Perhaps you are suddenly seeing more nurses because M1 killers can't compete against gen rushing with no viable slowdown anymore?

    Another "be careful what you ask for" moment.

    tbh it’s how bad the update has made nurse not nurse in general nurse games feel worse more stale and I know you main nurse but I can play nurse as well and know how easy it is tbh after you learn her for about a couple weeks it’s just a gg from there lol and I honestly didn’t care about any of the slowdowns people just complain and want anything nerfed

  • Nerfnurseplz Nerfnurseplz

    And guys this isn’t a complaint about nurse pre patch after patch she feels much stronger than before more unbearable with the nerfs to healing dh ECT And yes you may have a game where the nurse isn’t a god and you can run her but nurses that are actually bad at nurse are rare and her add ons got buffed tbh not nerfed another hot take for you to be angry about

  • DBDVulture DBDVulture

    @Nerfnurseplz said:

    With a very low skill ceiling with maximum reward for doing nothing since the changes nurse is unbearable to play against people can say otherwise but she really is even people like hens are complaining about it and I’ve for sure seen a lot more nurses The nurse is a very poorly designed killer that negates any sort of recourse a survivor has other than luck you go one way she goes the other break line of sight and hope she does not blink on top of you but with 2-3 blinks it’s very easy my solo queue team will give up all the time but ya know devs dead hard was the problem and I agree with healing but honestly you take away a good recourse it’s one of the only ways to stop a nurse from sniping you out of the game same with spirit blight ect these killers just feel unbearable camping and tunnelling is more rampant than ever so is Gen rushing do you not get you are killing you are killing the game for solo survivors or do you just not care and want to appease who ever cries the loudest cause guess what killer mains are already asking for more nerfs and complaining just why add killers that literally break all physics of the game if you are gonna try to “balance” it the whole reason dbd was fun was because it was a goofy party game with lots of cheese moments now it just feels like a sweat fest

    I'm not going to take the time/effort to do so but I could make a copy pasta repost of your grips and replace Nurse with SWF.


    Nurse/Blight and SWF are the most broken things in this game. All three need to get nerfed or every other killer needs to get buffed so they can deal with SWF (or the impossible option : only Nurse/Blight play against SWF).

  • Raptorrotas Raptorrotas

    I wish people would apply all that "nerf top characters on x side" -energy to the whole game.

  • mizark3 mizark3

    @IWasLrft2Die said:

    I never felt like it was a funny party game in the 6 years I've played. Its always been competitive feeling just by the very nature of a 4v1 game.

    I do agree nurse is obnoxious since 95% of survivors tools don't work on her. You can do well with if you aren't experienced with her. I got 2 4ks today back to back using her and I've never played her. I'm also on console

    You never thought a perkless/adept Clown versus a 4 slowdown Blight was in the same realm of effectiveness, did you? Also how many times have you played a map with 8 filler pallets in the middle then 2 on the same map the next time? That level of mismatched balance is why people call it a 'funny party game'. It is like playing Mario Kart but someone in 1st and 2nd can still get Stars or Triple Mushrooms at an elevated rate, while another player gets single Bananas even in 7th. Most people consider Mario Kart nowhere near balanced, but at least it follows a certain logic to rubber-band people to close gaps. People don't say it is non-competitive in that people aren't competing against one another, they say it in reference to the balance being non-competitive. It is just as silly as taking Smash seriously with the game designed around 20+ maps and items on, yet people restrict it to 0 items, 2/3 maps, and single digit playable fighters.

    I do think all Killers should be flattened/squished in terms of effectiveness (not exclusively Nurse). To be clear, if we were to say Killers can range from S-D tier, then buffing D and nerfing S so that we only have A-C would be preferable. (Alternatively top 5/bottom 5). This would likely necessitate Nurse/Blight/Spirit to be touched upon, as well as Sadako/Trapper/Freddy. I do think the middle bracket feels just right, as well as many of what people consider C tier if we use the S-D range.

    Also as a personal gripe, if Wesker gets to lag teleport Survivors backward on vaults when he hits with his power, Doctor should too. Doc's power is delayed enough to justify it.

  • egg_ egg_

    I was probably the #1 nurse complainer in the forums because of how unfair and cheap she was while running starstruck with a couple of slowdowns and range/recharge addons . Literally an easy 4k while making a coffee

    But at this point, with her blink attacks being special, her most obnoxious addons gone, I feel like complaining about her is just a matter of skill issue. She's perfectly fine now

    Throwback to 1 year ago:

    @egg_ said:

    This is not going to be a rant thread, because I actually did some maths and therefore I'm bringing some quality data to support my thesis, so brace yourselves because this is going to be a long thread, with numbers too. A lot of stuff will be repeated and/or redundant, partly to understand what numbers I'm using (so you can scroll back and see how I calculated them), partly for myself since I wrote this in pieces.

    First of all, we will need some data. More specifically, power times and movement speeds, that can be gathered here https://deadbydaylight.fandom.com/wiki/Sally_Smithson#Power_Trivia and here https://deadbydaylight.fandom.com/wiki/Movement_Speeds#The_Nurse

    I will expose the assumptions I'm making:

    1. we are taking into consideration raw distances. This to avoid discussions like "yes but break line of sight and double back" or stuff like that, which has no value whatsoever in the points I'm going to make;
    2. the nurse 'example' we are using will have no 'dead times': therefore, we are looking at the optimal use of movement blink charging times (no seconds wasted between the moment the blinks are ready and the moment the nurse starts charging them, no overcharging of the first blink: everything will be immediate), while always holding W (always moving forward) towards the survivor;
    3. we are assuming range addons are working as intended. More specifically, as stated in the pwoer trivia, a blink maximum time is 1.5 seconds. The addons descriptions only mention that the charge time is increased (maintaining the normal charge time / meters ratio) but not the blink time, which is capped at 1.5 seconds. Therefore I assume that for blinks longer than 20 meters, the cap will always be 1.5 seconds per blink -> changes the blink movement speed to compensate;
    4. the second blink is assumed to last 1 second and to cover the full distance of 12 meters;
    5. last assumption: I'm taking into consideration the "worst case scenario" for the nurse, which is having to catch up after blinking twice and lunging, giving her the longest fatigue + full recovery of both blinks.

    So let's start with the numbers. At first I will analyze the distances covered while using no addons, dark cinture alone, fragile wheeze alone, and both the addons together. Then we will compare the results with range addons. The formula used is simple:

    Total distance = Fatigue duration × Fatigue movement speed + Walking time × Walking movement speed + Blink charge time × Blink charge movement speed + Blink range (max) + Chain blink time × Chain blink movement speed + Second blink range (max)

    The fatigue for the aforementioned scenario lasts 3.5 seconds, at which the nurse moves at 0.96 m/s. The distance covered is 3.36 m (constant).

    Charging the first full blink takes 2 seconds, at which the nurse moves at 2.89 m/s. Space covered = 5.78 m.

    The first blink lasts 1.5 seconds and covers 20 meters. The second blink is assumed to last around 1 second and cover 12 meters (^assumption). To charge it, the nurse will use 1.2 seconds at which she moves at 1.16 m/s. Distance covered: 1.392 m.

    Total fixed distance: 42.532 m; total fixed time: 9.2s

    The only variable in this case is the time that the nurse consumes walking normally after fatigue, which is affected by the addons. Therefore, I will calculate the single cases and add up the fixed values to each one of them:

    1. no addons: walks for 2.5 seconds at normal movement speed of 3.85 m/s. Distance covered: 9.625 m. Total distance covered: 52.157 m. Total time: 11.7 s. Avg speed: 4.46 m/s
    2. dark cincture: walks for 1.7 s. Distance covered: 6.545 m. Total distance covered: 49.077 m. Total time: 10.9 s. Avg speed: 4.50 m/s.
    3. fragile wheeze: walks for 1.3 s. Distance covered: 5.005 m. Total distance covered: 47.537 m. Total time: 10.5 s. Avg speed: 4.53 m/s.
    4. both addons: walks for 0.5 s. Distance covered: 1.925 m. Total distance covered: 44.457 m. Total time: 9.7 s. Avg speed: 4.58 m/s.

    Now lets compare this data with a survivor's data, namely the survivor that has just been M1ed and is running in a straight line away from the nurse. The survivor's data is obviously easier to calculate. They will have a fixed 6 m/s speed boost for 2 seconds (fixed 12 meters), then run at 4 m/s for the remaining time. I'm not considering any decelarion aspect (is there even any?): the transition between the 6 m/s and the 4 m/s is instant.

    1. no addons: 12 + (11.7 - 2) × 4 = 50.8 m. Distance difference: 1.357 m.
    2. dark cincture: 12 + (10.9 - 2) × 4 = 47.6 m. Distance difference: 1.477 m.
    3. fragile wheeze: 12 + (10.5 - 2) × 4 = 46 m. Distance difference: 1.537 m.
    4. both addons: 12 + (9.7 - 2) × 4 = 42.8 m. Distance difference: 1.657 m.

    This means that the better addon you use, the more distance the nurse covers, giving a smaller window of reaction to the survivor. Bear in mind that we're not taking into account the lunge too, as it would happen instantly after the data provided. But anyway, as you can see, the actual difference between using and not using addons is merely 30 cms. The 'actual' difference is that everything is sped up as it takes place in a smaller window of time. However, this is not what this thread is looking into. This data is used as a source of comparison with the actual point of the thread, which I'm going to explain now.

    When we take into consideration range addons (Heavy Panting and Kavanagh's Last Breath), we intoduce another variable: charge time. However, most of the numbers used until now stay the same.

    1. Heavy Panting only: we add 0.4 seconds to the first blink charge time with a speed of 2.89 m/s = 1.156 m, and 4 meters to the blink range. Since no addons are affecting the blink recharge time, we take the previous no addons data and simply add this. Final data is: 57.313 m in 12.1 s. Average movement speed: 4.74 m/s.
    2. KLB only: we add 0.6 seconds to the first blink charge time with a speed of 2.89 m/s = 1.734 m, and add 6 meters to the total distance = 59.891 m in 12.3 s. Avg speed: 4.87 m/s.
    3. Both addons: we add 1 second to charging time at 2.89 m/s = 2.89 m, and add 10 meters to the total range. Total distance covered: 65.047 m in 12.7 s. Avg speed: 5.12 m/s.
    4. Heavy Panting + Dark Cincture: Total Distance = 49.077 + 1.156 + 4 = 54.233 m. Time = 10.9 + 0.4 = 11.3 s. Avg speed: 4.80 m/s
    5. Heavy Panting + Fragile Wheeze: Total distance = 47.537 + 1.156 + 4 = 52.693 m. Time = 10.5 + 0.4 = 10.9 s. Avg speed: 4.83 m/s.
    6. KLB + Dark Cincture: Total Distance = 49.077 + 1.734 + 6 = 56.811 m. Time = 10.9 + 0.6 = 11.5 s. Avg speed: 4.94 m/s
    7. KLB + Fragile Wheeze: Total distance = 47.537 + 1.734 + 6 = 55.271 m. Time = 10.5 + 0.6 = 11.1 s. Avg speed: 4.98 m/s.

    Looking at the average speed alone, you can already conclude how strong range addons have. But let's compare it in terms of 'closing the gap' with the survivor, by calculating the distance covered by them in the same fragment of time and then subtracting it to the distance covered by the nurse:

    1. Heavy panting: 12 + (12.1 - 2) × 4 = 52.4 m. Distance difference: 4.913 m.
    2. KLB: 12 + (12.3 - 2) × 4 = 53.2 m. Difference: 6.691 m.
    3. Both addons: 12 + (12.7 - 2) × 4 = 54.8 m. Difference: 10.247 m.
    4. HP + DC: 12 + (11.3 - 2) × 4 = 49.2 m. Difference: 5.033 m.
    5. HP + FW: 12 + (10.9 - 2) × 4 = 47.6 m. Difference: 5.093 m.
    6. KLB + DC: 12 + (11.5 - 2) × 4 = 50 m. Difference: 6.811 m.
    7. KLB + FW: 12 + (11.1 - 2) × 4 = 48.4 m. Difference: 6.871 m.

    Conclusion + personal comment:

    As you can see, the distance covered when using range addons is a lot higher than that of the survivor. Not only that, but the use of Fragile wheeze only, in terms of raw distance, gives almost 300% more distance than using both recharge addons together. This renders almost any effort of making distance from the nurse useless, as she can immediately close the gap. I don't think this is healthy at all for the game, and the fact that those addons have no downside whatsoever is mindblowing for me.

    As I said earlier, recharge addons almost have no impact on the difference of the raw distances covered, they just impact the speed at which the game is played, and I don't want to discuss the balance of that in this thread, as the numbers are very similar.

    If we want to consider a more realistic scenario, the nurse will hit the survivor, and they will run somewhere where they can break line of sight. The nurse will be forced to walk for longer than the recharge time required. Then she will blink again to catch the survivor, who is probably trying to break LoS and build distance. If they 'win' the mindgame, they have a chance to actually make said distance, forcing the nurse to be a lot more precise in her next blink series. However, outplaying a nurse with range addons is basically useless, because she can close the gap immediately.

    If we take an addonless spirit for example, in the situation where she M1s a survivor and has her phase ready to go, you will find out that the duration of the phase is just enough for her to be in lunge range, if she tracks the exact same pathing as the survivor, and provided that there are no pallets or windows in between (you can do the math). Nurse doesn't care about these. So I don't think it is healthy for her to keep having these addons, at least with no downside. Taking spirit as example again, it would be as if Yakuyoke Amulet was never nerfed, or if MDR showed scratchmarks).

    Finally, even though in terms of raw numbers, double range addons combination is the strongest, I personally think that the 'best' is KLB + FW, as it helps cover the gap while also giving only 1.3 seconds of 'forced' walking time while the nurse can locate the survivor again.

    Again, this is not a thread about nurse, but about her addons.

    NB: I posted the average movement speeds as a normalization metric, as every case examined took into consideration different times and distances covered. However, this is not a discussion on the average speed of the nurse. Don't interpret it as "wow, she's actually faster than a standard 4.6!", because every killer has a way of closing the gap with survivors, and on average they will have an overall speed higher than 4.6 m/s too (blight, spirit, billy moving extremely fast almost as much as they want, clown and freddy slowing down survivors which could be seen as them speeding up, and so on).

    NBB: I really hope the math is correct. Maybe I made some mistakes here and there, if someone had the time to double check this it would do me a great favor :)


  • egg_ egg_

    Ah nvm, 2 or 3 content creators said the exact same words of this thread's title. I see what's going on

  • zarr zarr

    I think Nurse is fairly fine now, overall. She's certainly still above and beyond all other killers (except Blight, due to his addons), and really good Nurse players are still way overpowered (Knightlight 300(?) match win streak addonless and perkless, although this is of course in no small part due to matchmaking being awful), but getting rid of her ability to utilize Exposed has absolutely been a game changer. It had been unfathomably ridiculous that a killer like Nurse could down people in one hit. Imagine the same on Blight, everyone would instantly realize it's ludicrous. Now that she actually has to chase through 2 health states (or 3, before the Dead Hard nerf), she is much less oppressive and has to go through many more motions. Which is especially notable since recharge and range add-ons are no more.

    That said, there are still some issues, I think. Her lunge range out of blinks makes it a sort of third blink, it's too forgiving in my opinion and reducing it by, say, 33% would be the perfect way to tame her, making her more challenging to play in the process (although the latter is probably precisely why BHVR wouldn't do it, as it'd make her even less noob and console-friendly). Alas, instead they went and brought an add-on that increases her lunge range...

    Pallets should be a more reliable resource to use against Nurse. Stunning her out of blinks, blink hits and fatigue should work more consistently (or at all), and it should cause her to go through the stun animation, only after which her blink charges should start replenishing. Fatigue overriding stuns also makes Head On much less viable against Nurse.

    Nowhere To Hide is pretty overtuned on Nurse. I really like the perk and wouldn't want it nerfed, but on Nurse it just equals free and easy hits that survivors can do next to nothing against, and this is particularly true because NTH's aura reveal range travels with the killer for its duration. Maybe just make it not work on Nurse specifically. xD At least there's Distortion, I suppose.

    3-second Decisive Strike doesn't do much of anything against Nurse. It should be back to 5 seconds anyhow (and maybe even proc up two two times, so after each unhook).

    The Dead Hard nerf benefits Nurse tremendously. While there was some counterplay (and laghits...), DH was still a really reliable tool against Nurse, so much so that it was essentially a third health state against her. Without that, she'll be much more dangerous. Dead Hard can still be used of course, but only at most two times per match (and if they aren't using another Exhaustion perk alongside it, they won't have any in many of their chases). Plus if Nurse tunnels right off hook, she can put the survivor into Deep Wound anyway, nullifying DH. I think the 10 seconds of unhook Endurance should become unhook invincibility, such that it doesn't clash with Off The Record and DH (or stuff like Renewal or Resurgence, for that matter). Removing collision for these 10 seconds would be ideal.

    That they've removed the flashlight interactions with Nurse now is honestly just mindboggling.

  • Emoba Emoba

    @zarr said:

    I think Nurse is fairly fine now, overall. She's certainly still above and beyond all other killers (except Blight, due to his addons), and really good Nurse players are still way overpowered (Knightlight 300(?) match win streak addonless and perkless, although this is of course in no small part due to matchmaking being awful), but getting rid of her ability to utilize Exposed has absolutely been a game changer. It had been unfathomably ridiculous that a killer like Nurse could down people in one hit. Imagine the same on Blight, everyone would instantly realize it's ludicrous. Now that she actually has to chase through 2 health states (or 3, before the Dead Hard nerf), she is much less oppressive and has to go through many more motions. Which is especially notable since recharge and range add-ons are no more.

    That said, there are still some issues, I think. Her lunge range out of blinks makes it a sort of third blink, it's too forgiving in my opinion and reducing it by, say, 33% would be the perfect way to tame her, making her more challenging to play in the process (although the latter is probably precisely why BHVR wouldn't do it, as it'd make her even less noob and console-friendly). Alas, instead they went and brought an add-on that increases her lunge range...

    Pallets should be a more reliable resource to use against Nurse. Stunning her out of blinks, blink hits and fatigue should work more consistently (or at all), and it should cause her to go through the stun animation, only after which her blink charges should start replenishing. Fatigue overriding stuns also makes Head On much less viable against Nurse.

    Nowhere To Hide is pretty overtuned on Nurse. I really like the perk and wouldn't want it nerfed, but on Nurse it just equals free and easy hits that survivors can do next to nothing against, and this is particularly true because NTH's aura reveal range travels with the killer for its duration. Maybe just make it not work on Nurse specifically. xD At least there's Distortion, I suppose.

    3-second Decisive Strike doesn't do much of anything against Nurse. It should be back to 5 seconds anyhow (and maybe even proc up two two times, so after each unhook).

    The Dead Hard nerf benefits Nurse tremendously. While there was some counterplay (and laghits...), DH was still a really reliable tool against Nurse, so much so that it was essentially a third health state against her. Without that, she'll be much more dangerous. Dead Hard can still be used of course, but only at most two times per match (and if they aren't using another Exhaustion perk alongside it, they won't have any in many of their chases). Plus if Nurse tunnels right off hook, she can put the survivor into Deep Wound anyway, nullifying DH. I think the 10 seconds of unhook Endurance should become unhook invincibility, such that it doesn't clash with Off The Record and DH (or stuff like Renewal or Resurgence, for that matter). Removing collision for these 10 seconds would be ideal.

    That they've removed the flashlight interactions with Nurse now is honestly just mindboggling.

    She's above and beyond of Blight as well. Addons or not.

  • birdnippies birdnippies

    @Nerfnurseplz said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3405231#Comment_3405231

    You really think I care about my punctuation on a forum post I’m not gonna argue because I’ll get banned but you can’t invalidate my experience because you haven’t seen more than one nurse different servers mmr Ect

    deep breaths

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