Cant believe people are really trying to argue against the flashlight changes

EntitySpawn

Title.

I dont get it, doesnt matter if the change was done for epilepsy reasons or BM reasons, the change is a good change to help stop both.

Clicking mega fast or macro clicking a flashlight has no actual use in game other than to annoy. It hurt my eyes and was an annoying sound even if it was my team doing it so I can only imagine how bad it would be for people with certain conditions.

You can still click at a teammate, you dont need to spam it.

And you dont need to click to correct flashlight save timings, either get it right or quickly swing the beam out and back in without ever needing to click.

You can still do everything as normal, the change did nothing to how stuff actually works for flashlight saves. Stop trying to defend something that CAN cause harm to others or just be used as a BM tool.

StarLost

@Ryuhi said:

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3226265#Comment_3226265

They're usually arguments made by bad faith perpetrators themselves, funny enough. You see it in nearly every topic concerning accessibility, which is why it just ends up adding unnecessary attacks no matter who brings them up. There are still people parroting the competitive advantage stuff about FoV in this very thread, whether they even understand how the advantage dichotomy works around accessibility options in general.

The long and short is basically that if the disadvantage imposed by the limitation is more severe than the advantage caused by the accommodation, then the accessibility option should be researched and implemented, as long as all other factors also line up within reason. Physical illness being caused by things within a game prioritize pretty high on that list, which is why people who are disadvantaged on such topics are actually playing "hard mode" of the game currently, far more of a disadvantage than their accommodation would cause.

But then some people are just crabs in a bucket, and only care about getting theirs.

Edit: Also completely off point on that, i actually really like the new flashlight sound. Maybe its just because I'm a bit older, but it sounds much more in line with most mechanical flashlights i used all the time as a kid. I guess they've been mostly phased out and replaced with simple button mechanisms, which is probably why many people barely even remember or think of the slide ones.

@Wezil said:

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/350325/cant-believe-people-are-really-trying-to-argue-against-the-flashlight-changes

I think the flashlight changes are good but I also think there were bad-faith actors using epileptics as a way to get the change, which I don't like. I think everyone would have been much more accepting if people had been much more honest about why it was being removed. People wanted it removed mainly because of the BMing, which is a very valid reason. You could also say the other reason to remove it is for the small percentage of people with photosensitivity, which is also valid. But it seemed like everyone had epilepsy and photosensitivity when this was happening and at some point you really start thinking that these are bad faith actors.

Okay, here's the thing. As anyone who's seen one of my rants will attest, I tend to be on the other side here.

However, this is something I can speak to personally as someone who struggles with photosensitivity.

Aside from old games with full screen 'flashes', DbD is one of the few games that can give me legitimate problems, especially with strobe macros.

This was a good change - but yes, flashlights need a buff overall (honestly, survivor items and addons need a complete overhaul).

RoastedGarlic

I'm all for the flashlight change but i think the battery drain needs to be addressed asap.

Brimp

@Araphex said:

My biggest issue is I used the green flashlight which increases 20% accuracy, with the add-on that increases accuracy by another 40% and still ended up with the flashlight pointing directly at the ground. I had a killer who let me test it out on them. They stood still and I couldn't get it to aim at all. It would bounce off their face and into a random direction.

As someone who is currently in college for my bachelor's in game design, I can't believe this was released being as broken as it is. But I guess the Halloween outfit update was more important than making sure content is released without flaws. Profit over game health.

This is currently a bug to where flashlights dont aim properly

Ryuhi

@Wezil said:

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3226553#Comment_3226553

Do you think pretending to be someone with a disability to push through an agenda is morally ok?

Do you think questioning the disability of anyone over the internet, something you're not even allowed to do in person to customers as a business employee, even as an employer to an employee, which they also have zero requirement to provide AND you have zero right to even ask, is morally ok? Hell you shouldn't even ask things like that as a simple courtesy unless they are both willing to share and willing to discuss it at all. You're making really bad attempts at trying to bring morality into the conversation about both morality and ethics, so I'd recommend you not go down that avenue again, preferably sticking to the topic instead.

Superbeasto1974

@Ryuhi said:

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3226656#Comment_3226656

Do you think questioning the disability of anyone over the internet, something you're not even allowed to do in person to customers as a business employee, even as an employer to an employee, which they also have zero requirement to provide AND you have zero right to even ask, is morally ok? Hell you shouldn't even ask things like that as a simple courtesy unless they are both willing to share and willing to discuss it at all. You're making really bad attempts at trying to bring morality into the conversation about both morality and ethics, so I'd recommend you not go down that avenue again.

Clearly the well-being of others is secondary to his need to clickclickclickclickclick. 🔦🔦🔦🔦🔦

Ryuhi

@Superbeasto1974 said:

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3226717#Comment_3226717

Clearly the well-being of others is secondary to his need to clickclickclickclickclick. 🔦🔦🔦🔦🔦

Sometimes people just don't have the perspective. I've known someone (and verified) who got in trouble at their job for asking someone why they had a trained service animal, which is something you are not legally allowed to ask. You can ask what they are trained to do, but even just asking them a question that requires them to answer with undisclosed medical information is kinda legally protected for a reason. I'll leave it there because I don't want it to go further off topic, but the point is that I would rather help someone understand than begrudge ignorance.

Araphex

@Ryuhi said:

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3226671#Comment_3226671

I feel like you're agreeing but a lot of things you keep cranking up to 11 just to try to prove a point, like the customers over workers and shareholders part. Thats ironically exactly why the urgency of the flashlight changes were required, due to the controversy surrounding photosensitivity issues and BHVR's developing accommodations to prevent the issues. They needed to put the flashlight changes out ASAP due to the severity of its impact on the potential health of the customer (and also the shareholders and dev team themselves for liability, as some have complained about.) Another customer being inconvenienced is a secondary priority, and not necessarily one they are ignoring by prioritizing the other. If they did something like say "yeah we dont want to fix flashlights so we wont" that would be a different story, but they have acknowledged the bug and have been working with the community on isolating and resolving it. Its not as fast as you want, but again, your perspective seems tinged with personal bias.

As for tickets, I do hope people continue to send them in regardless how they are sent in. Maybe that will push the devs to fix this sooner rather than a year or two from now

So you'd rather make everything harder for them to actually fix things, and encourage people to sabotage the process, out of spite? Do you honestly not realize how venomous you're being on this topic? I will always prefer to turn my displeasure with how they do things into constructive avenues than act like a child over them.

But imagine your character in Assassin's Creed being unable to shoot a bow and hit a target despite the player is aiming correctly.

And there's where your argument falls through the floor. QA is entirely different for different types of games, which is why its extra ironic you used AC as your basis. It is not a multiplayer asymmetrical pvp game that runs as a live service with updates every 1.5 months at minimum, with regularly scheduled content updates every 3 months. After having transferred both languages and engines throughout tis development, migrating from p2p to dedicated servers, having passed its initial scope more than 4 years ago, filled with an ungodly amount of spaghetti code due to all to the above. They don't have to re-edit old code in those conditions, they work in development and pre-realease, bigfixes post launch, DLC and then further bufixes from that before starting work on the next game. There is no DBD2, its not an annual franchise from one of the biggest publishers in the industry, it doesnt even have a single player mode. It is very important to note, if you actually want to be constructive, that the game is likely not very easy to work with under the hood. You should always operate under the assumption that things may not work exactly like you posit, and even when i've done things like suggest simple checks to detect ragequitting on hook using simple universal methods like input tracking and/or duration and frequency of actions I have disclaimed that there might be something internally that makes a simple method like that ineffective or impossible to implement.

We actually agree on a lot of points, but your frustration is extremely misplaced. Make the bug report if there is none, and if there is, do what you can to provide case examples for them to compare with their testing. Use that energy for something positive, or ignore it and either play more games or take a break until they fix it. You can call it critique but it certainly isnt constructive criticism.

Maybe I am exaggerating a bit, not intentionally of course. And I didn't mean send multiple, seperately made tickets with no evidence, on the same issue. I guess I'm not conveying my message clearly. Like you said, we agree on a lot, so I'll leave it at that.

Superbeasto1974

@Araphex said:

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3226702#Comment_3226702

Maybe I am exaggerating a bit, not intentionally of course. And I didn't mean send multiple, seperately made tickets with no evidence, on the same issue. I guess I'm not conveying my message clearly. Like you said, we agree on a lot, so I'll leave it at that.

For what it's worth, I definitely understand your frustration. It's not just this game, and not just this specific mechanic. It certainly seems like there is a new industry-wide standard in the era of live-service gaming: ship them out broken, patch them up later. A number of high-profile flops have made some developers a little reluctant to release projects too early, but it hasn't stopped other companies from pushing other titles out the door when they probably needed another month or two of attention in order to be street date ready. And you're right - people are becoming complacent and accepting of this kind of attitude from big game labels. It's absolutely a concerning trend.

Devil_hit11

@EntitySpawn said:

Title.

I dont get it, doesnt matter if the change was done for epilepsy reasons or BM reasons, the change is a good change to help stop both.

Clicking mega fast or macro clicking a flashlight has no actual use in game other than to annoy. It hurt my eyes and was an annoying sound even if it was my team doing it so I can only imagine how bad it would be for people with certain conditions.

You can still click at a teammate, you dont need to spam it.

And you dont need to click to correct flashlight save timings, either get it right or quickly swing the beam out and back in without ever needing to click.

You can still do everything as normal, the change did nothing to how stuff actually works for flashlight saves. Stop trying to defend something that CAN cause harm to others or just be used as a BM tool.

the problem is flashlight are unfun to use now. they're clunky and might as well be worst item in the game with current changes. the survivor are complaining about flashlight changes because they're genuinely bad changes.

WesCravenFan

@Superbeasto1974 said:

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3226803#Comment_3226803

For what it's worth, I definitely understand your frustration. It's not just this game, and not just this specific mechanic. It certainly seems like there is a new industry-wide standard in the era of live-service gaming: ship them out broken, patch them up later. A number of high-profile flops have made some developers a little reluctant to release projects too early, but it hasn't stopped other companies from pushing other titles out the door when they probably needed another month or two of attention in order to be street date ready. And you're right - people are becoming complacent and accepting of this kind of attitude from big game labels. It's absolutely a concerning trend.

Basically?

Superbeasto1974

@WesCravenFan said:

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3226913#Comment_3226913

https://images7.memedroid.com/images/UPLOADED385/6060f8257e714.jpeg

Basically?

We can definitely see eye-to-eye on this. Spot on! 👍

Crowman

@Wezil said:

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3226673#Comment_3226673

Again, like I've said before in this thread, I think removing the flashlight clicking is a good thing because it reduces the BMing in the game. If players had said, please reduce flashlight clicking because it's being used for BMing and there's also a small percentage of players that are photosensitive, then I would have been fine.

It's when people start pretending to have disabilities they don't have, where I have a problem.

You keep saying this and yet I haven't seen any evidence that people were doing that. Stop trying to downplay people's issues.

hatchetChugger

@EntitySpawn said:

Title.

I dont get it, doesnt matter if the change was done for epilepsy reasons or BM reasons, the change is a good change to help stop both.

Clicking mega fast or macro clicking a flashlight has no actual use in game other than to annoy. It hurt my eyes and was an annoying sound even if it was my team doing it so I can only imagine how bad it would be for people with certain conditions.

You can still click at a teammate, you dont need to spam it.

And you dont need to click to correct flashlight save timings, either get it right or quickly swing the beam out and back in without ever needing to click.

You can still do everything as normal, the change did nothing to how stuff actually works for flashlight saves. Stop trying to defend something that CAN cause harm to others or just be used as a BM tool.

They could've done it in a way that doesn't screw over people who like to click their flashlight for 360s/moonwalking. They could've just added an option in settings that hides flashlight beams and mutes the clicking sound for people who are epileptic/find it annoying.

Ryuhi

@hatchetChugger said:

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/350325/cant-believe-people-are-really-trying-to-argue-against-the-flashlight-changes

They could've done it in a way that doesn't screw over people who like to click their flashlight for 360s/moonwalking. They could've just added an option in settings that hides flashlight beams and mutes the clicking sound for people who are epileptic/find it annoying.

I mean to be fair those never should have been a thing in the first place, and completely exploit the difference between running animations and the alignment of the collision box. They also have a disproportionate affect on killers who use a controller as opposed to M&K, so they don't even do anything half the time and further exploit a mechanical restriction the rest of the time. I know they're sikk skillz and whatnot, but they were never exactly worth preserving. For a lot of people thats simply another win.

Bardon

@RatbasterdJr said:

I hate the flashlight changes. I understand why, but the flashlight just feels so clunky and weird now. Very unresponsive. I feel I have to completely relearn flashlight saves now. Something just feels off.

It's not as big a change as when they ravaged Deathslinger's ADS - you'll get used to the new version like we did.