My idea has always been to instead tie it to whether or not the Killer is in a chase or carrying someone else while anyone is on a hook. If the Killer is out hunting others, reward the Killer somehow. If the Killer is standing by, punish the Killer somehow.
In chase vs out of chase is probably the best way to handle the idea, particularly if the killer leaves the hook and chases a survivor who leads them back to the hook.
I'm still a bit wary of how this will play out when the killer knows someone else is nearby but can't find them right away.
Only for Bubba, when within 10 meters of any hooked survivor he can't use his chainsaw. Also, if he hits a survivor with endurance when using the chainsaw, the sweep will automatically end, some counterplay to his face camping abilities.
I can understand the thought behind this - thinking of Trapper traps as technically that's his power and he cannot use them by the hook, but I think disabling a killers power completely near a hook that they've been at for 7s is impractical as there are so many ways this can be abused - Myers in T3 for example wouldn't be able to go near a hook - so you'd have "safe spaces" on the map where survivors are protected and that's something that's very abusable.
Also the STBFL comment re toning it down...a lot of that is on the Obsession in the match, it's very visible if the killer is running this perk and has gained stacks, pretty easy from the survivor side to tell - so to reduce the effect the Obsession can quite easily take a hit and cause the killer to lose their stacks that they've built up. There's outplay around the perk, players just do have to consider what perks the opposing side is running in the game and play around them to a degree.
I'll be honest, i'm a killer main and thing STBFL is fine. But this is a big leap, you are assuming that a group of solo queue survivors can effectively see and/or communicate that the killer has STBFL so that they should coordinate that the obsession should go work on getting chased?
This is why the game balance is in such a horrendous state. If you balance for SWF in mind, solo queue suffers, if you balance for solo queue in mind the killer suffers. SWF bully squads even today can often end games without the killer even getting a hook, let alone a kill. Meanwhile solo players are often lucky if they even finish a couple of gens.
In chase vs out of chase is probably the best way to handle the idea, particularly if the killer leaves the hook and chases a survivor who leads them back to the hook.
I'm still a bit wary of how this will play out when the killer knows someone else is nearby but can't find them right away.
A justifiable concern; I admittedly don't know how that would play out in the grand scheme of things.
In chase vs out of chase is probably the best way to handle the idea, particularly if the killer leaves the hook and chases a survivor who leads them back to the hook.
I'm still a bit wary of how this will play out when the killer knows someone else is nearby but can't find them right away.
If I may, pick a distance, find out how long it takes Nurse to WALK out of that range, add a couple extra seconds, and if the killer remains in that distance from the hooked surv, without entering chase, they get the punishment.
I can understand the thought behind this - thinking of Trapper traps as technically that's his power and he cannot use them by the hook, but I think disabling a killers power completely near a hook that they've been at for 7s is impractical as there are so many ways this can be abused - Myers in T3 for example wouldn't be able to go near a hook - so you'd have "safe spaces" on the map where survivors are protected and that's something that's very abusable.
Also the STBFL comment re toning it down...a lot of that is on the Obsession in the match, it's very visible if the killer is running this perk and has gained stacks, pretty easy from the survivor side to tell - so to reduce the effect the Obsession can quite easily take a hit and cause the killer to lose their stacks that they've built up. There's outplay around the perk, players just do have to consider what perks the opposing side is running in the game and play around them to a degree.
T3 Myers would be fine though, as he's already earned it. He wouldn't be able to stalk.
That said, this could be done in a targeted manner - as there is already precedent for it (Artist, Demo). Just restrict the problem killers, most notably Bubba, Billy, Hag and maybe Ghostface from using their powers near hooked survivors.
STBFL - agreed. Aggressive obsession can destroy STBFL.
Killer powers should be disabled after they face camp for longer than 7 seconds
STBFL also needs to be toned down because at full stacks survivors cannot even hook trade, you can get two hits off before they complete the unhook
This would only slightly reduce the camping issue
-from someone who is tired of being face camped every game because its "legitimate strategy"
The thing that a lot of people don't get, is that camping is a playstyle. You can't punish camping without hurting those that don't camp.
Oni for a example.
He hooks a survivor and notices a lot of blood around the hook to give him his power. Since collecting blood is range dependant and slows his movement, your idea would prevent him from getting his power and leaving even though he had no intention of camping.
As for STBFL the perk has always done that since before basekit
No, that is not what I am asking for, Oni could still be able to collect his power all good and dandy around the hook as normal,
Oni would not be able to sit in front of the hook and wait for someone to go for the unhook then activate his demon rush and prevent a trade and get a free snowball.
That's technically the same scenario. What if he's being looped around a hooked survivor and sees a opportunity to use Yamaoka's Wrath to down the looper? Kazan can't because the looper is taking advantage of your idea to stay safe.
What I'm getting at is that there is no way to punish a playstyle without
1. Survivors being able to abuse it
2. Punishing other killers who don't use that playstyle
That's technically the same scenario. What if he's being looped around a hooked survivor and sees a opportunity to use Yamaoka's Wrath to down the looper? Kazan can't because the looper is taking advantage of your idea to stay safe.
What I'm getting at is that there is no way to punish a playstyle without
1. Survivors being able to abuse it
2. Punishing other killers who don't use that playstyle
Pick a distance, decide a fair time to leave that distance from the hook, and if you get into chase, before that time ends, no punishment, but if you stay in that area for too long, without getting chase, you get punished.
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Comments
In chase vs out of chase is probably the best way to handle the idea, particularly if the killer leaves the hook and chases a survivor who leads them back to the hook.
I'm still a bit wary of how this will play out when the killer knows someone else is nearby but can't find them right away.
Only for Bubba, when within 10 meters of any hooked survivor he can't use his chainsaw. Also, if he hits a survivor with endurance when using the chainsaw, the sweep will automatically end, some counterplay to his face camping abilities.
Honestly if you don't like face camping you need to have perks against it like Rebecca's Reassurance. That's basically what they made it for.
I'll be honest, i'm a killer main and thing STBFL is fine. But this is a big leap, you are assuming that a group of solo queue survivors can effectively see and/or communicate that the killer has STBFL so that they should coordinate that the obsession should go work on getting chased?
This is why the game balance is in such a horrendous state. If you balance for SWF in mind, solo queue suffers, if you balance for solo queue in mind the killer suffers. SWF bully squads even today can often end games without the killer even getting a hook, let alone a kill. Meanwhile solo players are often lucky if they even finish a couple of gens.
A justifiable concern; I admittedly don't know how that would play out in the grand scheme of things.
If I may, pick a distance, find out how long it takes Nurse to WALK out of that range, add a couple extra seconds, and if the killer remains in that distance from the hooked surv, without entering chase, they get the punishment.
Nop, not even in your wildest dreams 🤣😂🤣😂😅
Only if exit gates regress, so when survivors win they dont 99% to bully
T3 Myers would be fine though, as he's already earned it. He wouldn't be able to stalk.
That said, this could be done in a targeted manner - as there is already precedent for it (Artist, Demo). Just restrict the problem killers, most notably Bubba, Billy, Hag and maybe Ghostface from using their powers near hooked survivors.
STBFL - agreed. Aggressive obsession can destroy STBFL.
The thing that a lot of people don't get, is that camping is a playstyle. You can't punish camping without hurting those that don't camp.
Oni for a example.
He hooks a survivor and notices a lot of blood around the hook to give him his power. Since collecting blood is range dependant and slows his movement, your idea would prevent him from getting his power and leaving even though he had no intention of camping.
As for STBFL the perk has always done that since before basekit
That's technically the same scenario. What if he's being looped around a hooked survivor and sees a opportunity to use Yamaoka's Wrath to down the looper? Kazan can't because the looper is taking advantage of your idea to stay safe.
What I'm getting at is that there is no way to punish a playstyle without
1. Survivors being able to abuse it
2. Punishing other killers who don't use that playstyle
Pick a distance, decide a fair time to leave that distance from the hook, and if you get into chase, before that time ends, no punishment, but if you stay in that area for too long, without getting chase, you get punished.