Latest Thanatophobia Change
Thanatophobia Rework
Each injured, dying, or hooked Survivor will now provide a 1/1.5/2% action speed penalty. If all four Survivors are either injured, dying, or hooked, Thanatophobia grants an additional 12% penalty to Survivors’ action speeds.
So after one survivor dies, the perk is nearly useless. In addition, you can only get good value with plague, legion and nurse.
I think this will mostly only be used on plague and legion though. They are kind of homogenizing perks.
Comments
Simply using a perk = abusing it. OK then.
do you understand that as a survivor I literally went against thanat 80-90% of my matches? using a perk vs. overkilling the use of a perk... it's not even a major drawback for killers.. killer still have numerous advantages still since 6.1 it's the simple fact that Thanat was indeed brokenly too strong esp when stacked with other slow-downs.. anyone who thinks otherwise was obviously part of the 80-90% that was abusing the living crap out of it.
imagine all those years of Dead Hard abuse. or the dreaded hex:ruin
So what? 100% of players could use the same perk, that doesn't constitute "abuse" of a perk. Let's not pretend that your 80-90% number is an actual statistic either, rather a number you're just pulling out of thin air.
Virtually every killer went against Dead Hard, having it extend chases every single match for several years. Was that "abusing" Dead Hard or simply using a valuable perk that aided gameplay and helped survivors complete objectives as a team?
In one of your posts, you mention that Lethal Pursuer's extra 2 seconds of aura reading is also "easily abused". I think you overuse and incorrectly use the word "abuse".
post sniping doesn't make your argument any stronger... The perk was abused because it was too powerful.. even the old DH was easily countered by simply "waiting it out" and it didnt change the entire tide of the game as much as Thanat did. Too many killers were/are running the same drawn out loadout with Thanat being almost centerpiece. Survivors running the same "free to play" perks is not the same as abusing a perk in frequency when the "free to play" perks are strong.. I mean since when was unrelenting or monsterous op? There's a major difference and not to mention.. DH was nerfed so your arguement using DH is moot.
MoM was nerfed like yesterday or something: this doesn't actually move the scale anywhere.
I feel like you get massively different survivors than I do. Most of the time I use feral frenzy, I see 0 or 1 survivors via killer instinct. Many maps are so big that it's not worth it for me to run to other parts of the map, hoping they'll show up on my killer instinct if I guess correctly. For me, if they don't show up on my killer instinct, they aren't worth trying to chase after, and even if they show up on my killer instinct, they still might be so far away that I feel like it's a waste of time to chase after them, because my feral frenzy might run out before I can reach them if they are running away from me. I feel like if I use feral frenzy, it's only worth it to try to chain frenzy to an additional survivor if I absolutely know I can reach the next survivor with that same frenzy. Legion is garbage in chases, and they really need the survivor to be injured before they start chasing them, or the chases might run awfully long. So I feel like it's a big loss if I hit someone with frenzy, try to chase after someone else, but my frenzy ends before I can hit the next survivor, and that survivor ends up being uninjured
I guess it matters what your goal is. Is your goal to progress and win the game, or is your goal to try to use hit and run as much as possible because it's "Legion's theme", and very slowly win a tedious battle of attrition?
This does shed light on why BHVR nerfed thana into the ground, because there are people out there trying to create matches that last forever, because it's more fun for them to run around stabbing people than actually progressing the game so it will end in a reasonable timeframe.
If you don't understand how old dead hard could change a game's outcome more than thana then you're either having a bad faith argument, or you just do not understand how much damage you could do with old dead hard. Like I suck at the game and i've single handedly gotten entire map pressure resets with a single keystroke.
As killer do you have any idea how many times I just waited a half a sec to counter the old DH? I literally played to it against every survivor and watched them miss everytime.. the only time the old DH made a huge "play" was a DH over a trap.. or to get the distance on a loop to extend beyond a pallet.. DH off hook with BT even wasn't that great because it hardly worked. DH only greatness came from killers who were too impatient to swing...
You're comparing a best case scenario to a worst case one. Cherrypicking doesn't go well with strawmanning, so I don't see much point in continuing. cheers.
"Post sniping" isn't a thing, grow up. I'm 34 years old, I have better things to do than to follow you around a discussion board for a video game.
Using a perk is not abusing a perk. DH absolutely changed the entire tide of the game on a regular basis, unless you're playing at the very lowest MMR, in which case, most people probably didn't use it correctly or effectively. According to your logic, Dead Hard was therefore "abused" as a perk. We do have actual statistics on its usage rates though and they were pretty ridiculous, showing that it was in almost every single match, with, more often than not, several survivors using it. One good use of this perk could extend a chase dramatically, several uses by several survivors? Well, that could, wait for it...completely "change the entire tide of a game". Please, be consistent and stop showing your bias.
Thanatophobia, in most instances and on most killers, isn't and wasn't actually that strong of a perk. The vast majority of killers would never have four people injured at any given time. Again, according to your logic, Thanatophobia is easily countered by simply "waiting longer on gens".
You're really arguing that Thanatophobia is stronger and more impactful on the game than Dead Hard ever was? This is just nuts. I don't know why you're saying "free to play" perks and insinuating that Dead hard wasn't strong. Thanatophobia is a "free to play" perk and really isn't that strong, particularly without four stacks.
No, my argument is not moot, you're just incredibly reluctant to apply your own thought process and opinions to both sides, despite the similarities. How about we try another perk? Off the Record. I'm seeing this in virtually every game, do you think that means it's being abused?
Still somehow better than Dying Light 😑
You were clearly playing against bad survivors. It was most often used to correct a mistake and/or gain distance to a pallet or window, thus resetting a chase entirely. No amount of "waiting it out" countered this (as stated by the devs themselves), you either ate the Dead Hard and they made it to a window or you'd have a pallet stun, either way it reset a chase and wasn't being used as intended. Hence the rework.
Apparently, every survivor you went against only used it to dodge a hit in the middle of nowhere and not for distance, that sounds like very low MMR gameplay.
Now you're claiming that the only time Dead Hard made a huge "play" was over a TRAP? Seriously? Over a trap??
Who on Earth was using Dead Hard off a hook when they had BT?? What a waste of Dead Hard that would be.
Try the addon combination I mentioned. The reasons you've given are precisely why I started using them together and matches really don't tend to run any longer than with any other killer since I'm regularly hooking people, be it with the fifth stab or having Frenzy expire and using m1 on an injured survivor (if you're not getting any hooks, then sure, this can really drag matches out, but that shouldn't be the intention). I'm willing to bet you'll see far different results. It certainly is a hell of a lot more difficult to chain 5 hits without it. 10 extra seconds gives you a lot more freedom to travel the map and you'll have a nice little speed boost after each successful stab.
You're right though, Legion is bad in chases and he does really need survivors to be injured before a chase, which is why I think it makes sense to use his ability as much as possible and on as many survivors as possible, keeping them injured. I think the combinatio of addons I mentioned maximises his potential to do this.
My goal is always to progress and win the game. I'm not really interested in the "themes" of a killer, I just try to use each killers ability as efficiently as possible and to the maximum of their potential.
Using a different addon combination still isn't going to help me when some of the survivors are too far away to show up with killer instinct. It sounds too risky to guess a direction and hope for the best, when on a large outdoor map.
They nerfed Thana in the wrong way, but it needed a nerf. Certain slowdown perks being too strong and camping and tunneling still being so effective are the reasons why killers have to wait in queue for so long currently.
I've already wrote this in another post to explain why Thana was much more of a problem than the 2% buff claim would make it sound like it was, so I am just going to post it here as well:
Before the patch we had the values 5/10/15/20 % slowdown, and 80 second gens, here are the gen times for every Thana value:
5%: 84,2 seconds
10%: 88,8 seconds
15%: 94,11 seconds
20%: 100 seconds
Now the former buffed Thana of 5,5/11/16,5/22 % with 90 second gens:
5,5%: 95,2 seconds
11%: 101,1 seconds
16,5%:107,8 seconds
22%: 115,4 seconds
So even with only 2 survivors injured, gens already took longer than before the update with all four survivors being injured.
The point of increasing gen times was to take some of the power that slowdown perks had, and add it to the basekit of killers, so they'd be less dependent on slowdown perks. Even if Thana would have stayed at 5%, it would have still made gens take noticeably longer than before the update, because of gens taking 90 seconds now. In case of Thana, they made gens at base more slower, but then they also added even more slowdown potential to Thana as well, instead of taking a bit of that additonal slowdown of Thana away, which they should have done to begin with.
That's also why Pentimento is quite the problem at the moment, and maybe even Gift of Pain, which would be more balanced at 14 or 12 %.
Lets say Thana had fixed values of 6/9/12/15 % for every injured, downed or hooked survivor. That would lead to the following:
6%: 95,7 seconds
9%: 98,9 seconds
12%: 102,3 seconds
15%: 105,9 seconds
So as you can see, gens with Thana would still take noticeably longer than before the patch, especially with only 1 or 2 survivors injured,without being crazy strong. Only that some of that potential power and slowdown, is now actually located in the baseline gen times, which are now 90 seconds.
That was the point of the big update, why gens got increased by 10 seconds, and why meta slowdown perks got nerfed. BHVR just didn't realise that other slowdown perks would become problematic like this as well.
The Thana we have now is much better. It's not as much of a problem anymore, but the way it was nerfed was far from ideal. With fixed values like I suggested, it would be much more consistent on all killers. Still fairly good on every other killer, but not too oppressive on Legion and Plague.
Well, you can only try it out and see for yourself. You'd be surprised at just how far across the map 10 extra seconds gets you (that's 20 seconds total during Frenzy before resetting again for another 20 seconds after a stab) and your speed increases per hit, even more so if you use Mural Sketch (which isn't absolutely necessary). Range addons and duration addons are also viable. Even simply guessing a general direction will almost always yield positive results.
If you're interested, here's a video of "PotatoLegion" showcasing the build on 5 different maps, which I just found on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EI0zdW78Aoo
For 1 survivor: NOW 2% / BEFORE 5.5% -> Only 36% effective as before!
For 2 survivors: NOW 4% / BEFORE 11% -> Again only 36% effective as before!
For 3 survivors: NOW 6% / BEFORE 16.5% -> Guess what, AGAIN only 36% effective as before!
For 4 survivors: NOW 20% / BEFORE 22% -> Only 90% effective as before!
So for one to three survivors, Thana now only applies roughly a third of the previous slowdown!
For all survivors being injured, it's 90% of the previous slowdown
If you compare it against thana pre 6.1, it is only 40% effective with 1-3 survivors injured, and the same if all survivors are injured
So YES, it is FAR DOWN. Or what percentage do you find acceptable to call it that way?
Regardless of your answer to that, if the slowdown is less in ALL POSSIBLE situations, calling the perk BUFFED is some advanced kind of alternative facts, right.
I’m too lazy to do the math so sure you’re right
I don't think that either Plague or Legion would use it seriously. The only scenario I can see this being used is if you want to make an over the top gen slowdown build with the only 4 perks that do that in the game: Thanatophobia, Pentimento, Gift of Pain and Dying Light. Even then you can make a case to use Plaything instead of Thana since it gives you more value and boosts your Pentimento.
No need to calculate anything. Just comparing the values shows thats its less slowdown in all possible situations ^^. So if you want to know if its worse know than before, its a plain simple "yes".