Gen Speeds Need To Be Looked At
Before looking at camping, tunneling, slugging, or anything else; Gen speeds should be the priority. Think about it:
In the first chase, 99% of the time, 2-3 gens can pop. Now let's assume that 1 chase led to 1 hook:
- That's at worst 2/6 (counting opening the gates) to at best 3/6 (1/3 to 1/2) of the Survivor's objective done.
- It's, AT BEST, 1/4 of the Killer's objective done. At absolute 'hook everyone once' BEST, the Killer JUST BARELY keeps up with a Survivor's AT WORST scenario.
Let me repeat that:
AT BEST, the Killer gets 1/4 of his objective and the Survivor gets, AT WORSE, 1/3rd of theirs.
But more commonly: The Killer has to hook everyone AT LEAST twice, leading it to be 1/8th of his objective. And the Survivors pop 3 gens, leading it to being ONE HALF of their objective.
You wonder why Killers camp? It's because their BEST CASE SCENARIO JUST BARELY keeps up with a Survivor's WORST CASE SCENARIO, and falls behind more often than not.
Imagine that time crunch out the gate: 1 hook (out of 4, minimum), and 2 or 3 generators pop thanks to SWFs, toolkits, perks...
NOW you know why Killers camp and tunnel and slug; they have such a time deficit to make up not 80 seconds into the match. They NEED to get a kill ASAP. Not spread hooks around and make Survivors feel good. Not 'play fair'.
If they want to win, and winning is the expected outcome for EITHER SIDE; they have to 'sweat' to make up for the fact that power creep has rendered gen speeds lightspeed, and the devs have not done ANYTHING about it.
Comments
Who said you can never down them? If you can never down a survivor that’s an issue with you, not the game.
I am going to agree with most others here and say its not gen speeds, its maps and spawns which are the issue.
The fix is simple, shrink maps, make survs spawn together and add a secondary objective (nerfing gen speeds will just make the game more boring as well, I personally do not want to sit on a gen for an extra 20 seconds or however long).
Three gens popping after your first chase/hook means that no other gens on the map have been touched. Now 1 survivor needs to go for the save and the other two are free to hop on a gen. They do need to spend some time going to find one though, which could be fast or slow depending on the map and if they're conscious of a three gen or not.
Anyway, from that point you have the choice to either cut off the person going for the save and injuring or committing to chase them. Or going for one of the people on a gen/heading to a gen. What you decide should be dependent on who you're playing and what your build is, and if you've figured out any perks the survivors have that could mess up a choice you make (ex: don't go for hit & run on the hook saver if you heard a boon get placed during your first chase).
Once you get your first hook though, this is when you can prepare your eventual snowball. Don't make the save free if the survivors are playing it poorly. Pressure them off the gens they're just getting started on. Spread damage, if possible. It should be easy to identify of the 3 survivors remaining if any of them may be an easier chase than your first to down faster. Also if your first chase is lasting 80 seconds, then that first survivor definitely had to use pallets...so lead your next chases toward those dead zones. They'll go down a lot faster.
Basically: the issue isn't the gen speeds. Losing 3 gens to your first chase of the match isn't and immediate L. You just have to play smart, use good game sense, and take advantage of your next few chases to keep pressure on the survivors until you eventually have an opportunity to snowball. The last thing you should be doing if 3 gens pop after your first chase is camping. The other survivors can finish the last two gens and open the gates before that survivor even dies. You're getting yourself a 1k in the best scenario and risking a 0k if they're well coordinated. The second to last think you should do is tunnel that first survivor you caught. Hitting them if they run past you right off hook is fine because they'll either have BT or go down. Mending or being slugged is good pressure, but don't commit to a second chase with them and don't pick them up to risk DS and losing all pressure you have on the map. Go for the unhooker instead and get more hook states on people to make hook trading more risky as the game progresses.
Of course, things like what map you get and pallet/window rng can be the ultimate game changer. It can work for or against either side. That's the randomness of the game that we all just have to accept at this time, but maybe the devs can look into that piece.
Even in that scenario you potentially force them to use up their Unbreakable. It's only a real net loss if something like Soul Guard or Boon: Exponential is in play since those are usable without loss to the survivor (not counting No Mither since you'd be aware of that one in advance)
There is 2 secondary survivor objectives. Boons and Chests. Both of these were meant to slow down gen speeds. However, both have become so useless that no one wants to use them anymore. The killers asked for a nerf to CoH and use of CoH is already dropping. Now we're seeing Killers complain about gen speeds because of the nerf they asked for. (Use of CoH has dropped 10% since the announcement of the CoH nerf according to nightlight, the aggregate stat site). My guess is survivors are going back to the gen speed meta and turning away from the healing meta that popped up with CoH.
I noticed while CoH was dominate, that killers rarely asked for gen speed nerfs at the time.
The problem was that CoH was not a second objective in any sense of 'slowing down gens'.
All it took was people using it twice, and now they have actually GAINED time over healing without it. It stopped being a gen slowdown and started being a gen speedup because Survivors spent less time healing and more time on gens. It paid for it's own time sink with just 2 uses.
It definitely was. People keep forgetting that you have time trying to find a totem to bless. Also, since the boon as to be in a position away form the center, there is travel time to the boon and then travel time back to a gen. Let's say about 4 sec to get to the boon, then another 4 to get back to a gen. (I actually would say it's more travel time, but we'll go with the small number). With travel time, it takes 3 uses before it is better than the worst perk in the game, Self Care.
Even going by your numbers, without including travel time, it takes 2 uses before it's better than a perk that Killers want to see in their game, Self Care. And I know for a fact that Killers get rid of boons really quick and usually you only get 2 or 3 heals from it.
I've said this before, if you want a secondary objective in the game to slow down gens, then it has to be seen as valuable to the survivors. Judging the current drop in usefulness, it's no longer going to be valuable to the survivor. With the nerf, survivors will see it as Circle of Selfish Care, because the numbers are so horrible on it.
It's better to rush gens and not worry about healing after this nerf.
I can already see this is pointless.
This. Keep nerfing items, healing, boons, perks, just about everything survivors have.. and see how fast matches will go! 🤷🏼♂️
One idea I'd had is less for gen speeds in general and more for gen tapping, but could still be applicable here;
In order to stop a regressing generator a survivor needs to work on it for a set amount of time (call it 2-3 seconds as a quick example) before the regression stops and progress can resume. Perks that increase regression speed like Ruin or Call of Brine can increase this requirement.
That's true, but at the point, there's not really a challenge, because you will be guaranteed 4ks every game. Right now the games at 50%, you can slow down gen speeds without also buff survivors. Circle of Healing, slowed down gen speeds by giving survivors a useful objective, healing, to do and it buffed survivors healing while nerfing their gen speed.
Survivors aren't stupid, they know they have to be time efficient and if something isn't time efficient (CoH post-nerf), they aren't going to do it.
At least we agree on something.
so killers are forced to bring perks they may or may not want to bring because of the basic design of generator completion time?
Yes give us something else to do, and something that is not doing nothing but wait for skill checks.
Dude, don’t even start. Here’s what survivors get to deal with:
Camping killers? Bring Kindred and Camaraderie (Kinship). Killer tunnels off hook? Bring Borrowed Time and Decisive Strike. Killer slugs? Bring Unbreakable and/or other recovery perks. Don’t like NOED? Bring Small Game, Detective’s Hunch, and Counterforce.
As you can see, I’ve already listed far more than four perk slots. The best part is, most killer perks can function autonomously - meaning while they can combo well with other perks, don’t need to. Yet survivors usually have to bring multiple perks just to deal with one of the above scenarios! Killer will slug you if they suspect DS, so you need to run Unbreakable too; but you won’t activate Unbreakable if they don’t suspect or respect DS, so they basically live in symbiosis. Kindred will help your team know the killer is camping, but may not buy the team enough time to do things while you’re on the hook.
Not to mention, no one is forced to bring any perks they don’t want to. You are free to run gen defense perks if you want, but don’t have to. You’re gonna have a way worse time without survivor meta perks than killer meta perks, though.
According to McLean, Boon Totems are the optional second objective.