Does SBMM only take in to account kills and escapes ?
From the developer update it seems they are only measuring escapes as a win. Does this mean crouching in the corner all game and getting hatch is a win but doing 5 gens and getting 6 unhooks with super long chases but dying is a loss ? I think if we're going to have SBMM we need to know what a win is
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The system takes many parameters into account to calculate your skill. Then uses these skill numbers to create matches where the most probable result is going to be 2k 2e.
(And hopefully it is not achieved by putting two strong and two weaker survivors in the match where the killer is somewhere in the middle... But maybe based on the number of available players it is going to be sometimes necessary)
How do you exploit a system that measures skill, you'd have to get better at the game which is the entire point. The only way to cheat the system is if its a bad system, which is exactly the concern. You can cheat the emblem system because its a bad system, we have no way to know if this one is good or not.
I have seen the feedback, I've seen a lot of both good and bad feedback, so no that doesn't really help. Some players had a good time, some had a horrible time.
The current system takes many parameters and that doesn't make it good because the parameters are poorly chosen. We don't know how many parameters, we don't know if they're good ones, that problem you outlined could very well be what's happening.
Just having no information doesn't help anyone. Like the parameters could be: escape, totems, chest, and unhooks. That'd technically be "many" but it wouldn't be good.
You don't really need to care about it. The new system gives better results compared to the current matchmaking. And for most this should be enough.
I don't know anything about CS:GO, but it sounds like the DBD equivalent would be kills and escapes, which is what it sounds like the main factor is given what the dev update said about the whole system being apparently fine because the K:D ratio was within a certain % of what they want.
Maybe not the only thing factored in, but the main one. That's not a good system. But unless we get more info we don't know and can't call it out.
Also we should know what counts as a win in the game, how are we going to judge if the system works or not when we don't even know what the game is aiming for in the first place. If its 2k 2e, which is what it sounds like it is, then the win condition is kills and escapes.
The devs have said before they balance for 2k 2e, they stated it as the only measure for the system working well, I think its time to say that winning and losing is based on kills and escapes. But that has problem like camping securing at least a 2k usually and RNG really putting you in a bad spot. Have the devs factored that in? Maybe.
Do I trust them to have factored that in? No.
Better doesn't mean good. Given how bad the current situation is, "better" can still be pretty poor.
And? They can still do it and will do it lol.
This whole secret sbmm win conditions sounds more like upgraded emblem system.
Doesnt really matter since players will discover how it works in few weeks anyways.
Also a matchmaking that can be abused by anything else than smurfing is not really that good imo
I get the frustration. To answer your first question, a system is more susceptable to abuse the more is known about it. If people don't know the specifics, then it's harder to take advantage. It may feel under-handed, but the previous match-making was rife with holes to worm through.
This most recent test has (mostly) been a lot more successful, taking into account the positive feedback overall. We've seen this in the forums, and I'm not that distracted by the concerns which roll in; usually expected with changes. Yet, from my perspective, it was very balanced. I did say the original version was questionable, because it was based upon too simplistic a measuring device. They've said this SBMM has a lot more complexities within it; takes more into account. Combined with feedback and personal experience, the criteria used has worked well for me.
You have a good point about giving feedback, when it's unknown what the feedback is measuring against. Whether it's a failure of the system, a mess of data, or players simply being unhappy because it's not matching with their perceived reality, having some measure would be interesting to have. At the same time, the problem goes into revealing how the system works and it becomes open to manipulation - a vicious cycle that would repeat the errors of the current ranking system. I guess that's why I'm in favour of being against knowing.
However, if people were to keep a consistent tally of their results (ideally screenshots) and use that as information - alongside in-game experience - at least there could be evidence if someone is getting consistently battered. Again, it's abusable because that player can be selective in evidence, but it's something to start with.
And this is probably just repeating myself (sorry about that) but going on to the point about escapes and kills being used as the measure, that's what happened in the first test and on their news update they do say they realised that wasn't working, so they made a much more complex system. I'm going to say that even the first test was better than our current one, but there were some inconsistencies in sudden spikes in difficulty, and certainly compared to now, the response was more mixed. Now it feels more in favour.
I also agree BHVR haven't the best track record in terms of consistency. They have done a lot better than what some people claim, especially by trying to balance a game that couldn't ever be balanced by its very nature, and ultimately being proved right with a fair few changes. They've also given a plethora of bugs and some changes I can't even understand why (Hillbilly's cooldown still makes no sense whatsoever, even when taking into account concrete data). There are companies who have done better and worse, but none really have the same, ever-expanding criteria to have to work with as BHVR.
I'm going to stay positive for this, and also hope the fixes to DH, gen repairs and healing work in the next patch.
So camping and tunneling killers will be grouped up with the low-mid rank survivors (where it’s most effective). That’ll go well!
This is the way. Stop trying to measure e-peens.
Fact is, i don't think that any killer will enjoy to play against total potatoes (new players) that don't know what they are doing. Camping and tunneling to win 80% of your trials with 4K, 4 to 5 gens left won't be enjoyable.
Camping won't be of high reward anymore (i hope). Killers won't go up in rank and they won't enjoy their trials :)
Thank you for clearing up the Scott Jund mess. You all need to remember that the streamers don't want MMR because that makes getting good stream games much harder. Remember the Ortz, 50 kill streak videos as Killer, that shouldn't happen anymore.
Honest question: do you guys here really still believe BHVR's lies?
They don't tell you what calculations are running in the background, because there simply are none. For all those years, people have complained about bad/unfair matchmaking, so I assume, BHVR again takes the lazy/incompetent way and just disable every matchmaking criteria while hiding the ranks. Tadaaa, no complaints anymore, because you don't know how good or bad your enemy was, you got quicker queue times and everything else is "super duper hidden mechanics". Pathetic
You can measure it by looking at the result of the matches. If it is going to be most of the time 2k 2e then their system is working.
I'm fully aware of bhvr's love of pointless secrecy and silence. I'm not pro-MMR because Mr Developer says it's good, I'm for it because I played during the tests and it -was- good.
At the least I would just like to be able to see the number so you can at least know if your matches are actually pairing you up fairly without the guesswork.
But I can understand your viewpoint as well and the points you brought up are very valid. At the end of everything if it works out well for everyone then of course that's great.
So fingers crossed it works out well. Thank you for having a civil and thorough discussion 🙂
You are most welcome, and thank you for keeping it civil too.👍
All the posts on the SBMM said, "without getting too mathematical", but what about us folks that want to hear about some juicy math?