I'm So Sick Of Hearing "NOED Is Fine"
It's not.
Let's say in this fairly realistic hypothetical scenario:
Bubba immediately finds, downs, and facecamps a survivor to death about 1 min into the game. In those 120 seconds it would take for Claudette to die as well as the additional 60 seconds from before, an average of 3-4 gens would be completed. Cool, almost all the gens are done. Bubba doesn't catch anyone after, then the final gen gets done. That survivor Bubba couldn't catch? NOED helped him out with a little speed boost and instadown. Bubba facecamps that survivor to death. The others can't do anything about it.
Is NOED fine in this instance?
Even assuming that survivors were looking for the totems while the first survivor was being camped, that would mean less gens would get done, giving Bubba more time to kill. This is assuming that the survivors even find the totem in the first place. On maps like Grim Pantry where the totems can spawn in some random corner away from everything else hidden in grass, are survivors expected to reliably cleanse those totems in a timely manner on that big map?
The problem with NOED is that it requires absolutely no input from the killer in order to activate such a game-changing effect. With Ruin, pressuring survivors encourages them to leave gens. Devour and Lullaby require hooks to increase their power. Crowd Control and Blood Favor require the killer to give chase for their effects to activate. Even Plaything requires a survivor to get hooked. Haunted is pretty much the only exception to this and coordinated survivors or weary solo queue players can figure out what it is, plus, it only lasts a minute.
With NOED, the survivors don't know it's in play until its effect is applied.
Solo queue players can't coordinate totem placements, especially on indoor maps or maps or very large ones.
It's effect is overly powerful for how little it requires from the killer.
If a Wraith can just run Bitter Murmur, No Way Out, and NOED and sit in the corner the entire game until the gens are done, then just go around and one-shot slug the team to death, NOED may be a problem.
Comments
if it only lasts for 2 minutes than you can’t make it a hex perk anymore.
Yea, I suggested in that post that it should no longer be a hex perk if it was reworked this way. Edit: Reworking NOED in this way to help nerf the kind of playstyle OP described would be a very healthy change. It'd still be very strong, especially with good killers and might even need more adjusting after that. But at the very least it would significantly nerf that playstyle.
Gotta love when people didn't take the time to properly understand the argument.
I'm only gonna say this one more time since this is getting annoying. The problem with NOED is that it requires nothing from the killer to activate for such a strong effect.
Not you bringing up the other perks when this topic isn't about them. *clown emoji* smh my head
It's not a double standard. The post isn't about them. Stay on the topic of the perk being discussed and quit it with the whataboutisms.
It's not a hunt if
It's not hard I play solo I can't get the totems while gens get done.
You just don't want to.
why are you making this about me like i use these perks lmao, i could be a killer main for all you know
whataboutism whataboutism
I suppose you know all 70+ spawn locations across all maps huh. Very realistic.
Should I just remember the RPD spawns, the random corner of the map Grim Pantry spawns?
Or do you expect every survivor to run a map and totem perk in all their builds?
Very weird argument over just making NOED require hooks.
A quick reminder, keep the comments and disagreements civil and respectful, please. I understand NOED is a heated topic, but it can be discussed without being disrespectful to one another. Thank you.
You must enjoy losing every match you play solo if you run around the map looking for every bone lol. If cleansing NOED was viable for solos, people would do it, but it never happens for a reason. It’s not reasonable for solos to have the coordination to do it, other than small game, there is zero way to know how many dull totems there are.
NOED is extremely problematic against solos, not against SWF.
I think what you also don't understand is it requires nothing from the survivor to simply cleanse totems as they go, or do what I do and run small game when I solo q. It really isnt that hard, I have stopped noed many times, sure a teammate or 2 have died because we didn't gen rush but overall we as survivors won those games. Edit: Once you learn all totem spawns on each map you don't even need perks to cleanse all the totems.
On most maps yes I do know.
Ones that I don't or I'm still trying to remember I use detective's hunch and a map and burn a offering to go to that realm.
It requires throwing the games sometimes to cleanse the bones.
Okay, here's a better question.
Do you expect the majority of players to remember all the totem spawns?
Realistically how many games do have you had to "throw" to cleanse though. On the same note how many of those games did anyone actually run a perk to counter it.
My post was sarcastic but yeah
Ah, oopsies. :(
Ok it's pointless to keep talking to you😂
That's like saying doing generators doesn't activate the gate. Or putting survivors on books doesn't sacrifice them. Unless you are a survivor who is tunneling the generators, you should be looking around the map as time passes.
Be familiar enough with maps that you can look for bones. They aren't that hard to find, especially when survivors are actively looking for them.
No he's right. People keep making the argument of just doing bones like the survivors are a SWF when a majority are not. If your advice is taken, everyone's wasting time looking for totems. On the flipside, no one is doing totems. You simply cannot reliably coordinate getting rid of totems in most matches.
Majority of players know where the spawns are at.
Wraith can't do that since base no way out only has a block timer of 12 seconds they would need to play the game beforehand to get 60 seconds of gate blocking
It's really RNG. If everyone's bringing totem counters then everyone's committing their time to that. You can't coordinate stuff like that in most games so you're likely going to end up wasting time.
The only perk that counters NOED is detective’s + a map. The others are not worth using in solo.
Yeah, I imagine it is pointless talking to someone you can’t come up with an argument against.
All it takes is 1 well hidden totem on the swamp, any other big maps, etc to make it a complete waste of time and cost your team the game. It’s simply not possible in solo queue to check every nook and cranny and still win.
This goes back to the point that someone else made earlier in this post, if noed bothers you that much then run a perk. Most of the average players in this game know most totem spawns like negan mentioned above. Perks like ruin are literally taken out within the first minute of most of my killer games because people know spawns. It really isn't that hard to counter it unless your taking the "gen rush" strat and focusing gens.
A majority of players are in lower ranks.
If a majority of players knew all the totem spawns NOED would never activate.
Depends on the positioning. If it's something like an even split, 2 and 2 at a gate. He can probably down the 2 in time to get to the other gate.
I will agree with this because once every 10 games I feel like I'll get super good totem spawns. However most of my games all the totems that are lit up are in plain view.
But again, this is a massive disparity between solo survivors and SWF. In SWF, when running past bones in chase for example, this can easily be called out to their team. Yet another reason we need some kind of pinging system, as you already have so much to worry about as a solo player, without having such a big disadvantage when it comes to totems.
It's completely in the Survivor's control. It's a gamble whether the killer will need it or if it even activates.
Do bones, they take less effort than posting complaints.
This isn't a post about my personal experience with NOED. Don't use me as a talking point please.
A majority of players are newer to the game and at lower ranks so this simply isn't true. They won't know the totem spawns, they're only finding some of the totems that are very easy to see.
"If a Wraith can just run Bitter Murmur, No Way Out, and NOED and sit in the corner the entire game until the gens are done, then just go around and one-shot slug the team to death, NOED may be a problem."
If he does this literally go and break all the totems, and if NOED is this problematic try using the abundance of totem perks we have
Bring detective's hunch and a map.
If you have a problem doing totems that on you. Enjoy slamming on gens and dealing with NoEd
So you have described the situation when killer camped and tunneled a survivor and got additional power-up from NOED.
I'd say this is definitely not fun for the survivor and does not make bubba-player a better player. This is not fun, but if the killer wants to do this -- he can. He would do the same thing without NoED and please don't blame NOED for being the best camping perk. This is just a perk. The players make this game fun or miserable.
I have used to use NoED on Nemesis with no Gen Defence, but with chasing perks and meme builds for a while. I intentionally did not camp even the hook during the game collapse. Only once, one survivor complained about noed. The survivor, who died with around 18,000 BP in their pocket.
NOED IS FINE
in 12 seconds, probably not especially if they tap the other gate first
its situational
kinda like... another perk
NOED rewards lazy killers who camp in the way that a key can reward a survivor who spends most of the match practising their crouch walk. Neither are fine unless you are of the belief that doing nothing should be viable and rewarding.
Old ruin made players look for totems.
And most people who are using noed either are playing a killer that they are inexperienced with or are new to the game. I'm using my personal experience because realistically all my totem perks are gone against red rank survivors. Its not like newer or inexperienced survivors are going to stay stagnate at their skill level, eventually they are going to learn. Especially if noed is a perk that bothers them as well. But most survivors would rather run all the most meta perks rather than losing 1 perk slot to counter something specific they don't like.
Not the point of my argument, Hoodied. It's the fact that the Wraith literally did nothing and got use out of NOED.
Besides it would be fairly reasonable to assume the killer is just AFK and players would try to get to the next match they can actually play ASAP.
I've experienced something similar except the killer was wraith and he tunneled me right from the start, my teammates finished the gens but he 4k'd anyway because he had NOED and the exit gate RNG was horrible so he just slugged for the victory. Nobody can tell me that this perk is fair in it's current state when you can just play like a scumbag and get rewarded for it like that.
Needless to say, nobody had time to do totems that game because otherwise they would be throwing the game.
This isn't about me. Stop saying "you."
You totally ignored what I actually said, BTW. Wanna try that again?
how to pin comment
This would mean to start playing it safe, anyways with No Way Out it won't be such a big issue if he never got a hook ever as by default the timer is super short anyways, if he got hooks and randomly AFK'd this would mean he is going to do an endgame build
Always play it safe, thats my word in this
What does exit gate RNG mean??
You could assume it was something along the lines of their friend reprimanding the streamer for camping and tunnelling.
The distance between the gates, in this case not far at all from each other, easy to patrol both just by standing on a hill.
Nope don't want to.
Just do totems
Either way, if they don't perform well, why are they suddenly getting a game changing effect?
This argument is going in circles. The talking point is why NOED can even be used when the killer does nothing to earn the kill.
That's hypothetical to the conditions needed to clear NOED and antithetical to the solution, which is to do bones. It is 100% possible to do all that you described. Not being very good at it might give someone like yourself the impression it's not possible, but it's is certainly possible with effort. You have to pay attention to find them.
The hardest map regarding this is the swamp maps, where the bones can spawn anywhere on the perimeter. Only in this case would doing bones be very difficult to achieve during EGC; in that case, it means survivors weren't doing bones during the majority of the trial and brought the conditions upon themselves and created a risky EGC. Most survivors will open the gate and leave, but it's not impossible to find the bones if EGC hasn't been activated.
Challenging, yes, but 100% possible and 100% the survivors fault if they aren't doing bones.
Do bones or risk NOED, the choice is yours.