Anti-Tunnel Perks
There is so much tunneller killers. I am not judging them. They can do that because that is legal tactic. But there have to more anti-tunnel perks.
We only have DS and DS is trash. I am using For The People and that little helps sometimes for saves my teammates. We seriously need more seful perks. I really bored use same perks again and again. I am not using meta perks most of times but most perks are trash sadly and not effective.
Comments
I agree. Too many perks are bad enough not to even consider running, which leads to a stale meta.
Not only is DS not trash but it's still one of the best perks in the game. We do not need more anti-tunnel perks, we already have plenty and they're too strong.
I am glad i am playing both roles because killers getting more fun perks. For example i tried end game build with No Way Out and i tried Startruck on Doctor. They both fun perks.
Survivors also needs better perks, last 3 chapters had bad perks for Survivors.
Thank you for opinion. I disagree with you. Ds is trash and we need more anti-tunnel perks.
If you are looking for an anti-tunnel perk may I suggest self preservation. It's actually really good and you can almost always get away if you have competent enough teammates to take hits for you as your being tunneled.
I do not wanna for myself. I wanna protect my teammates. MoM + Borrowed Time + For The People i am using for now. And for myself Dead Hard.
I dont understand your reasoning. You want more perks against tunneling but you dont use the perks we have bc they are meta?
The meta against tunneling is DS (still works like before against tunneling) and BT (got a buff). Second wind would be a non-meta and anti-tunnel-perk. It does not work always against tunneling but every perk which does is meta by default.
BT can be good for extra 12 seconds after hook.
Like you guys mentioned the DS can be used for anti-tunnell.
For the People is a nice perk for instant heal.
Second Wind can be help you after you unhooked it will heal you
As add-ons Styptic Agent can help you get an Endurance status effect for one more extra hit for 8 seconds
Anti-Syringe can be used for getting the health state back after 16 seconds and can be modified depends of your perks and add-ons.
I hope this will help but the thing is if the killer really wants to tunnell you the best option is to compenent teammates that will take protection hits and bodyblocks.
I wanna both lol
I wanna new meta perks. Because old meta is same and boring. So we need good new options. And after DS nerf, i am facing with so much tunneller killer. So if devs would add new anti-tunnel perk, i would be happy.
The only way you are winning against "good" survivors is some variation of tunneling, camping, or slugging. DS removes one of those win conditions. How do you think that is weak? Anyone with even a decent amount of hours into the game knows that DS is still very strong.
Genuine tunneling isn't even that common. The vast majority of the time is the survivor playing badly and making excuses.
What should a new meta anti-tunneling perk do?
I am playing for 4 years + 3000 hours. For me DS is trash. Everyone have not think same. And tunnelling is legal tactic, like i said on post. Ofcourse killers can tunnel because gen speeds are insane. But i wanna more options against this tactic. Because survivors can play different games with only perks. So i wanna meta changer perks with this chapter, that's all
I personally wouldn't mind an extra anti-tunnel perk. Nothing too crazy, however.
I can't believe someone with that many hours actually thinks DS is bad. That is baffling. You haven't given me a risen DS is bad either. It does its job of preventing a tunnel attempt perfectly.
There are already so many perks for preventing tunneling that you can't realistically do it and expect to win against a good group that's running those perks. Why would you need more?
You change the meta by improving other bad perks, not making more second chance perks.
Problem is DS was weak before nerf too. I know some SWF teams abused it so much and that nerf was needed. But my chases takes longer than 60 seconds. So how can i say DS is good perk
Why is ds bad?
That is.
Unpopular opinion: DS has never been a good anti-tunneling perk, even pre-nerf. So yes, we do need more.
A minuscule stun for being tunneled isn't and has never been effective enough. And slugging to avoid it is even worse.
Thats your only reason? If you are on deadhook you can force a ds and get some extra time. If you are hooked in a deadzone and nobody has bt you can reach a pallet or waste atleast some time. You get a free escape in the endgame.
If the killer is bad enough that you dont need ds you should win. I got a rank reset to rank 9 and dont use ds anymore because i dont need it right now.
I am not using DS most of times and i am not needing it most of times. I just wanna more options. For example devs giving us Smash Hit? Why i have to change Dead Hard with this perk. Dead Hard is more useful. But i added For The People to my builds because good perks. I wanna see more perks like For The People. Then i can help my teammates and make slow tunnel.
I think smash hit is the best exhaustion perk since the stun bug is fixed, by otherwise, yeah, they haven't.
Wow you thought DS was weak before the nerf? You are in the extreme minority with this opinion. The vast majority of the entire DBD community including all the high hour/high rank players agreed DS was busted before.
If you want to get in the official DBD discord I can go into an in depth conversation as to why DS was completely broken before and is still very strong currently.
If you actually ran the killer for 60 seconds after being unhooked then the killer has thrown the entire game already. Not to mention your DS will still be active on the next unhook. The perk is to punish the killer for tunneling, not make you immune to tunneling which is what you're wanting. In your case he is either being punished by the DS stun or throwing the entire game to kill you.
"more anti-tunnel perks" implicates that you think there is one. There is no Anti-Tunnel Perk, DS is not an Anti-Tunnel Perk and never has been.
There are multiple and they are "anti-tunnel". Always have been.
Enlighten me.
"Increase skill - no, Antitunell perks - yes."
Activates only when unhooked, deactivates when touching objectives, and punishes the killer for picking you up within a certain amount of time from being unhooked. Also you know, the devs literally stating that's what it's been designed for.
BT is also for the same purpose with the same reasons listed above.
Unbreakable is one that is not specifically anti-tunnel but is made anti-tunnel when stacked with DS.
Very true.
There are technically even more "anti-tunnel" perks than those. I was just focusing on the more meta/extremely strong ones.
DS isn't the only anti-tunneling perk we have. It just tends to overshadow all the others due to its status as the only survivor perk which can outright punish the killer because they tunneled someone. It still effectively provides an extra health state to the tunneled survivor in-chase like BT, Adrenaline, Second Wind, and For the People all can, but it's the only one bombastic enough to also stun the killer in the process.
Most of the other perks that can be used for anti-tunneling purposes are preventative; they make tunneling harder by helping the unhooked survivor avoid the killer for a time. Stuff like Off the Record and Babysitter does this (Iron Will and Lucky Break too, though they're both so powerfully general-purpose that I doubt anyone really thinks of them as potential anti-tunneling tools).
Babysitter and For the People also take it a step further by offering the killer an alternate target too.
I'm fine with further discouraging tunneling, but I prefer when they do it in ways that are preventative (making it harder to initiate tunneling) or when they are rewarding (killer perks like MYC and BBQ & Chili help motivate the killer to swap around their chase targets pretty frequently).
The Devs also said that DS is not an Anti-Tunnel Perk. :) But obviously you ignore that. That DS deactivates on certain actions does not change the fact that most Killers dont care, if they want to tunnel, they will tunnel. Especially the strongest Killers have no problem to eat a DS, use DS on a Nurse and Spirit and you are down a few seconds later.
BT is a funny example, considering it got even easier to wait out the timer. Sure, it got more useful against SOME Killers, but weaker against basically every Killer, since they only have to wait 12 seconds to still get a hit in. Let alone that the Survivor does not have any control over the Perks of their teammates (unless they are a 4 man SWF).
"The Devs also said that DS is not an Anti-Tunnel Perk. :) But obviously you ignore that."
They did not. They said it was for anti-tunnel.
"That DS deactivates on certain actions does not change the fact that most Killers dont care, if they want to tunnel, they will tunnel"
And they will get punished and then lose the game for it. What's the problem?
"Especially the strongest Killers have no problem to eat a DS, use DS on a Nurse and Spirit and you are down a few seconds later."
Your counter argument is really to bring up that 2 of the strongest killers in the whole game out of the entire roster that exists can still win after eating a DS? That's quite a pointless statement.
"BT is a funny example, considering it got even easier to wait out the timer."
How often are you really not able to get to a pallet or window in that timer? Rarely is the answer, hence why it's hard meta.
"Sure, it got more useful against SOME Killers, but weaker against basically every Killer, since they only have to wait 12 seconds to still get a hit in."
Something can be made weaker and still be too strong simultaneously.
"Let alone that the Survivor does not have any control over the Perks of their teammates (unless they are a 4 man SWF)."
Pretty irrelevant when you see at least 2 BT's in every single match even in solo queue.
"They did not. They said it was for anti-tunnel."
Peanits said that it is not an Anti-Tunnel Perk, this was something the community made up. I am not searching for the post with that horrible Search Function, but I am not making stuff up here. (Maybe they changed their opinion on that, they did it quite a few times on other topics already)
"And they will get punished and then lose the game for it. What's the problem?"
No Killer will lose a game when getting hit by one DS. If they can take out a Survivor early, they will win the game - this makes it worth to tunnel even through DS, a Survivor Team cannot come back from a early Sacrifice when there are more than 2 Gens which need to be done (as long as they are not considerably better than the Killer).
"Your counter argument is really to bring up that 2 of the strongest killers in the whole game out of the entire roster that exists can still win after eating a DS? That's quite a pointless statement."
I mean, I got tunneled to Death by a Demo, despite having BT from a Teammate (random) and DS - I was in a Deadzone (wanted to repair a Gen there, it needed to go away, because there was nothing there) and he had enough STBFL-Stacks to get me, despite the Speedboost due to BT. After I was unhooked a second time with him camping, he just waited out the 12 seconds. And I was dead with 4 Gens to go, needless to say, this game was lost.
"Something can be made weaker and still be too strong simultaneously."
BT is not too strong when you can just go for the Unhooker.
"Pretty irrelevant when you see at least 2 BT's in every single match even in solo queue."
I only see two BTs in every Match because my SWF-Friend and myself are running BT. There are so many Survivors who dont run BT, especially with the weird Matchmaking you sometimes get. (I dont want to blame those Survivors, if there are Rank 17 Megs in my game, it is how it is, but as long as BT is not basekit (which it should not be), you cannot really expect BT in every game or from every teammate)
My point stands, if a Killers wants to tunnel, they can easily tunnel without that much trouble. The reward is big, since a Survivor Team cannot win against an somewhat equally strong Killer player if they are in a 3v1 situation early. To make DS an Anti-Tunnel Perk it should be a big middlefinger to every Killer, something which really punishes them for tunneling.
But we both now that this is not gonna happen, because Killer is still not easy enough apparently.
"Peanits said that it is not an Anti-Tunnel Perk, this was something the community made up. I am not searching for the post with that horrible Search Function, but I am not making stuff up here. (Maybe they changed their opinion on that, they did it quite a few times on other topics already)"
In its previous design saying it was not an anti-tunnel is being disingenuous. It's function was completely designed around preventing a person from being tunneled. Even in its final design it was stated that they designed it around anti-tunneling (after Peanits).
"No Killer will lose a game when getting hit by one DS. If they can take out a Survivor early, they will win the game - this makes it worth to tunnel even through DS, a Survivor Team cannot come back from a early Sacrifice when there are more than 2 Gens which need to be done (as long as they are not considerably better than the Killer)."
Against good survivors, yes they can lose the game from one DS stun. Yes taking a survivor out early can make the game very difficult to win, which is why we have anti-tunnel perks preventing that from happening and the fact of simply the hook to death time costing the killer all but maybe 1 gen if he decided to camp them. It is absolutely not worth it to tunnel through DS's. If it is working out then there is a massive skill difference between the two players/team and that's a whole other conversation. If there are honestly more than 2 gens left after all that the survivors were just absolute potatoes.
"I mean, I got tunneled to Death by a Demo, despite having BT from a Teammate (random) and DS - I was in a Deadzone (wanted to repair a Gen there, it needed to go away, because there was nothing there) and he had enough STBFL-Stacks to get me, despite the Speedboost due to BT. After I was unhooked a second time with him camping, he just waited out the 12 seconds. And I was dead with 4 Gens to go, needless to say, this game was lost."
This sounds like you or your team played very badly. Full STBFL stacks? Complete dead zone? Still 4 gens up? Even after eating a DS as well? Those perks aren't meant to make up for playing badly. That's not even to say the mistakes were yours, it could've been the team. It's a 4v1 though. That issue is a mm, ranking system, and rank reset system problem, not an anti-tunnel perk problem.
"BT is not too strong when you can just go for the Unhooker."
An extremely disingenuous statement that is always said. The unhooked then blocks the rescuer. Give BT loss of collision so he still can't be tunneled for that time but he also can't body block for the rescuer. Then I can agree with your statement and actually go for the rescuer realistically.
"I only see two BTs in every Match because my SWF-Friend and myself are running BT. There are so many Survivors who dont run BT, especially with the weird Matchmaking you sometimes get. (I dont want to blame those Survivors, if there are Rank 17 Megs in my game, it is how it is, but as long as BT is not basekit (which it should not be), you cannot really expect BT in every game or from every teammate)"
As I said before this is a mm, ranking system, and rank reset problem, not an anti-tunnel problem.
"My point stands, if a Killers wants to tunnel, they can easily tunnel without that much trouble. The reward is big, since a Survivor Team cannot win against an somewhat equally strong Killer player if they are in a 3v1 situation early. To make DS an Anti-Tunnel Perk it should be a big middlefinger to every Killer, something which really punishes them for tunneling."
If they are in a 3v1 that early they played like trash. Even through sheer hook time you should have at least 3 gens done. That's not even starting to count what little chase time there might have been, a DS, or a BT to extend it. It is not easy to tunnel without throwing the match if the survivors are even remotely competent. How you want to change DS would make every good killer against equally good survivors get destroyed because you want to balance around low rank/bad players. This is how the games balance already got into the bad state it is in the first place. There are times when tunneling is forced by the survivors or required, that's just facts. If you make it so strong and over the top to deal with actual unnecessary tunneling times you are going to ruin the rest of the scenarios that are fair.
I like to occasionally use a build of Borrowed Time, Babysitter, Decisive Strike, and Off the Record. BT and Babysitter to protect others, DS and OTR for myself.
I know Iron Will is better, but Off The Record better fits the theme. That said, I've also tinkered with Sprint Burst as a way to flee the hook quickly or Breakdown to know which direction to flee in.
There is no way to properly counter tunnelling especially in SoloQ where you can’t coordinate.
Im tired of hearing people who play survivor 25% of the time saying it doesn’t happen that much or that the anti tunneling perks are strong. If you’re properly being tunneling they’re not. 😂