Spitballing some ideas on Reworking the Twins
Intro
Hey y'all, I spent some time creating this Twins rework. My goal is to make them more fun and interesting for both sides because as a Twins main I have a blast playing them but I am also aware of how unfun it can be to fight them, so I wanted to tackle some of their issues along with giving them more things to play with, I want Victor to be seen more as a second killer than just a controlable hatchet so I gave him some new mechanics to make him more dynamic, now obviously some of these ideas are very rough and probably a bit harsh but I just want to throw the idea out so it can be discussed, if you think you have a better solution to a problem I'd love to hear it!
Camping issues
Charolotte cannot go idle or unbind victor within 16 meters of the hook
if Charolotte or Victor wake up within 24 meters of the hook, they will take
an additional 4 seconds to become fully mobile.
Charolotte affects: She will not be able to see scratch marks or blood
or be able to hear grunts of pain for 8 seconds after waking up
Victor Affects: He will move 30% slower for his first 5 seconds of waking up and not be able to see blood
for 8 seconds, his pounce would also take an additional second to charge (trumps addons)
Slugging issues
Fatigue Timer for Vitor: Every time he downs a survivor he gains 1/3 of fatigue tokens
for every token of fatigue he has his attack cooldown will become 1 second longer,
at max he has a 5 second cooldown
Timer would go down only when Victor is idle, for every 30 seconds you leave him idle
he loses a token of fatigue
Fatigue resets if he is crushed in anyway
new Blood bond cooldown: 15 seconds but for every token of fatigue add 5 seconds to cool down
Victor restrictions
there is now a 1.5 second delay before killer instinct will start showing survivors
within Victor's shrieks (This allows survivors to react to being in Victor's presence suddenly)
To still keep him a threat, if a survivor stays crouched within his shriek range for 15 seconds
the killer instinct will be shown regardless.
New Pounce mechanic: To prevent people from holding out their pounce for too long or constantly spamming it
there is now a cooldown,
Holding a pounce for more than 6 secinds fill send Victor into throwing a fit that lasts 4 seconds and he will shriek complacantly
during this time he cannot move and survivors can crush him
The pounce cool down: You will now have a small penalty for cancelling a pounce, the longer you hold it out the longer the
penalty, each second you hold a pounce adds 0.5 seconds to the cooldown, the cooldown will make you slow down by 30% and you will not be able to pounce until it ends, you cannot be kicked during this.
the penaty adds up once you've held the pounce for 1 second after fully charging
there is also a 0.5 second delay before you can charge a pounce again after letting go of a non charged pounce
New Victor abilities
Vitor will now be able to vault windows in 2 seconds.
Once you are able to recall Victor while he is on a survivor's back, you can switch to his perspective.
While there you can do either Dismount or Leapfrog
You can dismount the survivor causing Victor to turn around and leap backwards, after landing he takes 2 seconds to recover,
the dismounted survivor will gain 150 move speed for 2 seconds and not create blood for 5 seconds after the dismount.
Victor cannot be crushed in this animation unless he is under a pallet.
OR
Victor can look around while on the survivor's back and choose to leap onto another survivor
in any direction except directly in front of the survivor. if he misses the same conditions to dismount
apply except he can be crushed by any means.
Victor's call: Victor will be able to call Charolotte to his current location by standing still and holding M1
Charolotte will then begin to make her way over to where Victor called. This action takes 3 seconds to complete.
Charolotte will attack survivors that get in her path, if stunned by a pallet you'll immediately switch to her perspective
You may only call Charolotte if you are further than 30 meters from idle Charolotte
Charolotte may bring Victor back into her by standing within 1 meter of Victor and holding M2.
the action takes 1 second to complete
Buffs in general
Pounce takes 0,7 seconds to charge
Unbinding takes 0.7 seconds to complete
Addon reworks
Toy Sword - Slightly decreases Pounce Charge requirement. (0.2 seconds)
Tiny Fingernail - Slightly reduces Victor's Unbinding time. (0.2 seconds)
Cat Figurine - Considerbly reduces Victor's idle timer. (-30 seconds)
- Fatigue Tokens do not reset after victor is crushed, instead he'll have his cooldown penaty
and keep whatever number of tokens he had when he was crushed or expired.
- Grants 100% Bonus Bloodpoints for landing a pounce as Victor
Soured Milk - Slightly reduces Fatigue token cooldown. (Removes fatigue tokens every 27 seconds instead of 30)
Madeleins's Glove - Moderately reduces Fatigue token cooldown. (Removes fatigue tokens every 25 seconds instead of 30)
Ceremonial Candelabrum - Moderately increases time needed for Survivors to crush Victor. ( .30 seconds)
Cat's eye - Slightly increases time needed to remove Victor. (1.5 seconds)
Baby Teeth - Survivors within Victor's Shriek radius suffer from the Blindness Status Effect
- Effect lingers for 30 seconds after survivors exit the radius
Rusted Needle - Injured Survivors within Victor's Shriek radius suffer from the Mangled Status Effect
(Mangled doesn't go away until healed)
Weighty Rattle - Considerbly incrases Victor's Shriek radius. (8 meters)
Stale Biscuit - Slightly decreases Victor's Pounce cool-down at 1 Fatigue Token. (0.3 seconds)
- Moderately decreases Victor's Pounce cooldown at 2 Fatigue Tokens. (0.8 seconds)
- Considerbly decreases Victor's Pounce cooldown at 3 Fatigue Tokens. (1.2 seconds)
Sewer Sludge - Moderately increases time needed to remove Victor. (3 seconds)
Victor's Soldier - If a Survivor crushes Victor while he's idle, their Aura is revealed for to Charlotte for 6 seconds.
- All other survivors that were in the radius also have thier arua shown for 6 seconds
Drop of Perfume - Survivors within Victor's Shriek radius suffer from the Oblivious Status Effect
- Effect lingers for 15 seconds after survivors exit the radius
End
Thanks for reading, please note I do not claim to have perfect solutions to issues, I know this may seem nmore like an overall nerf in the long run but thats where I want you guys to chime in with what you'd do differently, whether it be remove a machanic, tweak it, or even add to it, whatever you feel like. I just ask for you to be kind and respectful!
Comments
I feel like a lot of the nerfs could be reverted, especially the penalties upon waking up. Twins are only strong if you go for mass slugs and camp with Victor, and the Victor fatigue tokens (an idea I actually quite like) and Victor getting crushed when a survivor is hooked near him pretty much solve those two issues. Don't think the rest are necessary - especially the waking up debuffs, those incentivise only playing as one Twin and not, you know, using their power creatively and switching between them often.
The pounce leapfrog and dismount also I don't really think are necessary - I can't see them having much practical use. Calling Charlotte over though with pathfinding a.i. is an idea that is borderline required if they ever rework Twins and something I've suggested myself.
Remove a good deal of those nerfs though - Victor having a longer pounce cool-down for every downed survivor is a great fix for their slugging, but punishing them for cancelling the pounce isn't as you need to cancel the pounce due to how slow Victor is while charging. It'd be like PTB Billy where he overheated in five seconds because of chainsaw baiting and letting your chainsaw charge down. Otherwise, good stuff, I think.
Thanks for sharing your input!
why do people think the twins need to be nerfed in the slugging category, I get camping but why slugging. The twin's aren't even the best slugger people need to be injured before slugging can happen also if people stay near each other the twins can bearly slug
My idea is to remove them from the game, and send them back to France.
They need to fix Victor's hitbox. It's the size of a pallet.
I agree, camping needs to be far weaker. Your ideas are definitely in the right direction, but idk if it would be enough.
They also need a bigger punishment for messing up and letting survivors crush victor after failing a pounce. It's so easy to land and he comes back after only about 5 seconds so if she unbinds midchase, you can't do anything even if you make him miss.
In return, they definitely need to be made more fluid; swapping between needs to feel much smoother than it currently does.
Chases with Victor also need to count as chases for both sides; it's not fun playing and getting no points because of the lack of forethought in the design of the character you chose to play.
not neccessarily the best sluggers in the game but, its the fact that its so unfun for the survivors, at least with oni, you can have a fun chase against him in Blood fury and it only lasts for a set amount of time. with Twins Victor can constantly harrass and down survivors and even CAMP the bodies