Bullying camping vs. end-game camping
It's one thing for a player to engage in end-game camping, where the killer will prevent the rescue of a hooked survivor after the end-game has been triggered and the trial is essentially over. While I don't like it, it seems logical that the killer would want to try to get at least one sacrifice.
However, this is not the same thing as bullying camping. Bullying camping is where a killer player will hook a survivor early in the game while generators still have yet to be repaired and camp the hook/basement and actively prevent the players from rescuing the hooked survivor. This is a player who is deliberately and actively preventing another player from playing the game as it was intended to be played. The bullying player is doing what bullies do: seize control from someone else.
The EULA says you may not "Interfere with the ability of others to enjoy playing a BHVR Service or take actions that interfere with or materially increase the cost to provide a BHVR Service for the enjoyment of all its users."
Bullying camping is preventing the players from enjoying a BHVR service by holding them hostage on the hook until their character is sacrificed or somehow rescued.
When I told a bullying camper that I had recorded the game and would be reporting him, he laughed and said campers don't get punished. Is this where the moral compass of your company points? To not only allow bullying but condone it?
I have paid real money for this game and some of its DLCs. I don't like paying money and not being able to have fun. Why should I, or any other player, ever give you more money for any game in the future if you allow this kind of behavior?
Players should be banned for engaging in bullying camping if an in-game report is made and video evidence is provided. It's simple. It's provable. It's obvious. It's moral.
Comments
It's a natural part of the game. While most of us (including a lot of us killers) don't like it, it's an accepted part of the game and therefore there is nothing to report. As a killer your (ultimate) objective is to kill the four survivors.
While camping is probably one of the least efficient ways to do this as long as the other three survivors do gens instead of standing around hoping the killer gets bored eventually, it's part of the game and will almost certainly never be removed.
You can put down the EULA as it doesn't apply here. Devs have repeatedly stated that camping in any form is not bannable and fully allowed over and over and over again.
In fact, they have gone on record to say "Stay on the hook as long as you can, give your team time to do the gens and get out" The idea is that you train killers to NOT camp by pushing the gens.
I will let you hear it directly from their mouths. Sounds to me you either need to learn to accept it's a thing and play around it like the rest of us, or find another game.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEaFKY3opY0
"It's an accepted part of the game"? Maybe it's accepted because it's not being punished and people choose to deal with it. I paid money to enjoy myself and I enjoy helping others in the game. It is immoral to allow a bully to wrest control from any player. Is bullying acceptable in society now? It's a sad statement on humanity if it is.
The Devs literally said it's not punishable. Are you making the rules now?
And btw, I find all pallets and loops unfun. How dare Survivors try to win the game and not make sure I had fun. I think we should ban looping and using pallets, as it interfers with my enjoyement of this game.
If it wasn't clear, that's sarcasm.
Looping doesn't involve wresting control from another player. It's the killer's choice to engage in looping.
It's the Survivors choice to be caught :)
Yeah, that makes no sense.
Stop bringing morality into something that is purely a game-mechanic. It's a tactic to be beaten, nothing more, nothing less. (which is amusing given this game we're engaging in the immorally questionable act of killing each other)
To me, the biggest issue with BHVRs stance and something I REALLY wish they'd consider is there's no incentive for a survivor being camped to do that.
As a solo queuer, I have lost far far far too many games because the person getting camped just dies 20 seconds in and I can't even really blame them for it. They (presumably) are solo players so what incentive do they have to kill four minutes of their life to help out strangers in a video game?
Even if it's just a bunch of BP for being a distraction, the camped really should be given something good for willingly sacrificing their time to save their three fellow survivors.
That was the point.
It's the same argument you are making.
You may have a Green Key, no more, no less.
They're actually working on that right now - second stage of the hook is about to be changed in such a way that you can't instantly suicide. Even if you ignore the skill checks it just means you die faster but not instantly
I think they need to go further and reward more points for those who actually stick it out and struggle - because you're right.. apparently 2 minutes is too long for most people to sit through being hooked... which I don't get. But evidently most survivors which are supposed to be at least mostly team-oriented are more self-centered than I like.
Camping during the match is stupid and boring. It takes all the fun out of having to worry about being caught or chased by a good killer.
Camping when the generators are done is fine. Games over, gates are open, you can leave and win. There’s not much else for the killer to do but try to catch people coming back for a rescue and even then you’re looking at probably just a hook trade at best because of Borrowed Time.
All’s fair in the End Game Collapse.
I agree.
And I will not stop bringing up morality. If you find morality offensive, I suggest you ignore this discussion so that it doesn't offend your sensitivities, or lack thereof. Bullying is not acceptable in any forum or endeavor. Morality helps defines us as civilized beings.
I'm okay with being camped as long as my teammates rush out gens and leave I mean that's the punishment killers get. I don't know how else to punish camping.
Yeah, changing it to the skill checks will at least help.
I still have a hard time blaming people who just let themselves die if they're being camped as annoying as it is to me. The game gives them zero incentive to stick around and while four minutes isn't a lot of time in the grand scheme of things, I know for myself, I have a full time job and a house and junk and therefore I only have so much time I can devote to playing a video game. While I personally will not kill myself on the hook for campers, I just have a hard time holding it against someone who chooses otherwise.
Maybe I'm being too soft of them but forcing someone else to waste their time with something incredibly boring (at best, tapping A gets to be a real pain after two straight minutes) with no reward whatsoever; I just have a hard time holding it against them if they decide F THIS and leave.
Well the game is a strategy game to prevent the other side from completing their objective on a macro level...and only in the micro level is it a 1v1 cat and mouse chase game.
I'm sorry for individual survivors, I truly wish there was some form of reward for stalling the killer on a hook, but strategic control over an area via 3 gens and hooking close to gens is part of the decision making process of playing killer.
It is a tactic that can be pretty effective if used at the right time, and it drastically reduces the amount of stuff a killer player needs to keep track of and the area the killer player needs to patrol at crucial moments during a match. Yet there are risks involved. If you miscalculate where players are and what they're doing, then it can backfire massively. Also survivors have tools to deal with it, such as BT and DS, and, with some coordination, body blocking (depending on the killer).
Also, you're not entitled to a free hook save. And you're not entitled to be left alone after being hooked. If a killer makes the determination that making the unhooking process as hard as possible, or impossible is the right choice, it's up to your team to figure out a way to deal with it. That's why you have a team.
Complaining about camping is like complaining about gen rushing. If you don't take any measures to stop it from happening then you cant really complain about it. There is no way the killer is taking the ability to play the game from you, you lose out on one match and that's it. If losing is such a bad concept for you then you need to not get caught and you wont have to worry about it. How is the killer being a bully for simply playing the game?
Morality is a rhetorical tool you are trying to use to evoke an emotional response to get people to your side because you know you have no real logical leg to stand on. And no, I will not stop telling you that it's ridiculous to use that term because it's the improper use of it. Especially given you tried to attach a EULA rule to try and prop your flimsy argument up. Same with the term Bullying. As a person who has actually dealt with real life bullying growing up, both physical and emotional, you have no idea what the term means. Playing a game in a manner you disagree with is not bullying. Being thrown into lockers and being called worthless for your religious beliefs and the fact you are physically weaker is. That is the real ethical and moral questions you should be raising, not how somebody plays in a ######### video game where one side is supposed to brutally murder the other. You have no moral high ground here to stand on.
Game does not know morality, it knows only it's own rules that we play by. If you don't like those rules, you're free to either try and stop us by getting good enough, or just leaving. Either is acceptable.
I don't see why any killer should be expected to leave a hook when it's their objective to remove people from the game. I mean, I don't see survivors refusing to do gens or throwing themselves on killer hooks here.
Camping = bullying 🤦🏻♂️
It's part of the game if the killer sees scratch marks near the hook the smart play is to stay near there.
If they know the team is tryharding for saves and going to rush straight in with BT the smart play is to stay near there.
Even if the killer wants to down someone before a gen has even been done and camp them, that's not a smart play however if they want to do it they can because they have the right to play however they like.
As a survivor main I have to disagree with this. I've been on the receiving end of a camper so many times and it sucks, but it is what it is. Is it the most viable and productive strategy? No. Is it useful in some situations? Sure, especially during the EGC.
It's making the game no less fun for the survivor being camped then it is for a killer who has earned a hook through a decent chase, but then gets body blocked by a SWF team so loses the hook. In terms of you saying it holds the game hostage and interferes with other players abilities to enjoy the service, sure that's true to an extent, but like I said, there's tons of other examples where survivors can use the game mechanics to their advantage which certainly doesn't make the game fun for the killer.
Also, if you want killers to be punished for camping, does that mean when you get left on the hook to die by other survivors they should be punished too? It essentially has the same outcome. It's not uncommon to be left on a hook to die when there's only two survivors left so the other can get the hatch. Or when team mates are so invested in gens/totems they leave you on the hook until the second stage? Thus automatically reducing your chances of surviving and shortening your gameplay. All of these somewhat hold the game hostage for the survivor on the hook, so why single out camping? All the above mentioned seize control from someone else.
The only time I see why camping could be called "bullying" is when the killer hits them on the hook, nods at them etc. But again, this is all superficial because as long as survivors are allowed to antagonize a killer by teabagging, hanging around at the end of the game, clicking their flashlights on/off etc then it should be allowed for the other side.