J-flicking and the difference between Tech and exploit

HR_Helios

Now before I start, I agree with J-flicking being removed soon as it lowers the skill ceiling of blight and makes him boring to play against imo. Playing as blight J-flicking is a blast. You feel so strong especially if you run alchemist ring and infectious and start chaining hits. However, even as I killer main I acknowledge that its unfun to play against when someone is good at it.

I'm making this post to ask a question based around other games and how they handled exploits and techs. In dbd the window tech is nearly impossible now due to the changes they made to collision during the vault animation. This tech was powerful against newer players and weak against stronger players because of the moon walk after the vault. I personally think this tech was fine even though it was unintentional and deemed an exploit. J-flicking however is just strong no matter what level it's done at. Yes the blight still needs to know the fundamentals of blight. But the fact a normal counter to blight can be countered by a dpi clutch is super strong and it's easy to perform once you understand it. It's makes the normal Counterplay unable to work and now survivors have to guess and predict. This arguably makes a j-flick blight stronger than a blight that doesn't j-flick. This has been deemed an exploit and is being looked into by the devs thankfully. But it raises the question, what is deemed as tech and what is deemed and exploit? In a way, CJ techs are exploiting the fact that the break pallet and pick up survivor button is the same. But it's deemed a tech because the game mechanics are working as intended. The window tech was deemed an exploit because the collision after a vault wasn't working as intended. One forces a killer grasp escape if the killer doesn't catch on. The other is easily countered by walking backwards. Not saying cj techs should be nerfed but I am asking at what point does a game exploit become reason for a patch? Or just become tech?

NoelleMina

It has been confirmed an exploit.

HR_Helios

@NoelleMina said:

It has been confirmed an exploit.

Did you read my post?

OniWantsYourMacaroni

Not another J-Flick discussion 😓

HR_Helios

@OniWantsYourMacaroni said:

Not another J-Flick discussion 😓

There's a second part honestly chose a bad title imma repost lmao

NoelleMina

@HR_Helios said:

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2088562#Comment_2088562

Did you read my post?

Nope, but I answered the previous title lol.

But, to answer the real question of your post: An exploit is a player using whatever isn’t part of the game to their advantage. Blight had a turn limit in place, but people used outside “resources” to expand the sensitivity.

Or something like that.

Bugs are a part of this too. While bugs are in the game, it’s not supposed to be there. People using bugs to their advantage are exploiting. (For example, when a Survivor crawled under another hooked Survivor.)

I like to think of techs as little tricks, like maybe the car tech on Springwood.

But, if that and the CJ tech is a bug, then the people using it are exploiting it.

This is just my thoughts.

HR_Helios

@NoelleMina said:

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2088564#Comment_2088564

Nope, but I answered the previous title lol.

But, to answer the real question of your post: An exploit is a player using whatever isn’t part of the game to their advantage. Blight had a turn limit in place, but people used outside “resources” to expand the sensitivity.

Or something like that.

Bugs are a part of this too. While bugs are in the game, it’s not supposed to be there. People using bugs to their advantage are exploiting. (For example, when a Survivor crawled under another hooked Survivor.)

I like to think of techs as little tricks, like maybe the car tech on Springwood.

But, if that and the CJ tech is a bug, then the people using it are exploiting it.

This is just my thoughts.

Thanks for the proper response. Technically the CJ tech isn't a big as the game is working as intended but survivors are exploiting the fact that both actions have 1 button. Window techs were a bug but aren't as impactful to the game as a CJ tech is. Imo both are tech. I don't thing window techs should have been nerfed. Just opening up discussion on what deems a nerf or what's left in as tech. CJ tech could be easily nerfed if they allowed us to fully customize our inputs.

MadLordJack

The difference is when the developers call it an exploit because it avoids a limitation they deliberately included.

Edit: This goes for everything. If it's avoiding a deliberate limitation that the developers don't want avoided, it's an exploit.

MrDardon

I play honest Blight and it's still a blast. J-Flick is on the same lvl of bs as stretched res.

Both should be removed but only one will be removed and we all know which one will be removed.

HR_Helios

@MrDardon said:

I play honest Blight and it's still a blast. J-Flick is on the same lvl of bs as stretched res.

Both should be removed but only one will be removed and we all know which one will be removed.

Agreed

bjorksnas

You lost me at lowers the skill ceiling of blight

HR_Helios

@bjorksnas said:

You lost me at lowers the skill ceiling of blight

J flicking does exactly that. It makes him easier. I'd know I play him why do good bounces when you can just flick around the corner

GoodBoyKaru

@GoodBoyKaru said:

Definitions

"In video games, an exploit is the use of a bug or glitches, game system, rates, hit boxes, speed or level design etc. by a player to their advantage in a manner not intended by the game's designers."

This is direct from Wikipedia; source.

"An exploit (known as "exploitive activity" by Blizzard) is a method of playing the game in a way not intended by the game developers to gain an advantage over other players."

This is direct from the WOW Wiki; source.

Let's apply both to the J-Flick:

Wikipedia definition

The use of a bug or glitches, game system, hit boxes, speed or level design etc.

It's a bug/glitch, as confirmed here and here by McLean.

"The Blight is not supposed to be able to do 180 [degree] turns. He has a turn restriction in place for a reason." (Second clip)

by a player to their advantage

The J-flick is used by players to gain an in-game advantage.

in a manner not intended by the game's designers.

McLean is, in fact, a game developer, and iirc was the lead developer on The Blight. As confirmed by him, again in those clips, this was unintended. "He has a turn restriction in place for a reason."

wow wiki definition

An exploit...is a method of playing the game in a way not intended by the game developers

Again, the player is playing the game in a method not intended by the developers, again check the clips.

to gain an advantage over other players.

If you can try to prove to me that performing a 180 flick doesn't grant you an in-game advantage over other players, by all means go right ahead. However, considering how it does then best of luck.

Conclusion

By the dictionary (or as close as you can get to a dictionary since both Oxford English, Oxford German, and Merriam Webbster have definitions in terms of exploitative actions and labour, not video games) definition of the word, the J-flick is an exploit. Apply the criteria to stretched-res too, and you'll get the same results.

But, again, please keep pretending it isn't.

It's an exploit.

bjorksnas

@HR_Helios said:

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2088946#Comment_2088946

J flicking does exactly that. It makes him easier. I'd know I play him why do good bounces when you can just flick around the corner

You know you can use both right, you can both do good bounces and know how to j-flick separately meaning its additive to good bounces

HR_Helios

@bjorksnas said:

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2088959#Comment_2088959

You know you can use both right, you can both do good bounces and know how to j-flick separately meaning its additive to good bounces

It's significantly less skillful to j-flick scott jund had a bit of a vid dedicated to that point. On a t l wall where as someone playing blight normally may have to do some bounce geometry and mindgames a j flick blight will just bounce once and yeet around the corner. It makes him way easier