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DS rework

Tsulan Tsulan
in General Discussions

So i was thinking about a DS rework that would make both sides "happy".
To keep true to it´s name, turn it into a "defensive weapon".
The survivor would be able to hit and stun the killer (exhaustion status applies) like a pallet would hit and stun him.
No free escapes from the shoulder, but a small stun during a chase.

What do you think?

EDIT: It would be usable like DH during a chase, when the survivor is injured but not downed.

Comments

  • Amelia Amelia

    It's still a one time thing or when exhaustion wears off you can use it again ?

  • Orion Orion

    This is what the devs tried, remember? They concluded it'd only make SWF stronger.

  • Tsulan Tsulan
    Orion said:

    This is what the devs tried, remember? They concluded it'd only make SWF stronger.

    No, the devs tried to give a stun on the shoulder. This would be a stun during the chase. 
  • Tsulan Tsulan
    Amelia said:

    It's still a one time thing or when exhaustion wears off you can use it again ?

    Several uses. Just like SB. Survivors would have to choose between being able to run away or get a stun without a pallet. 
  • Orion Orion

    @Tsulan said:
    No, the devs tried to give a stun on the shoulder. This would be a stun during the chase. 

    Ah, my bad. I misunderstood what you meant.

    In practice, how would this work? Activate the ability during a chase and the Killer is stunned?

  • Tsulan Tsulan
    Orion said:

    @Tsulan said:
    No, the devs tried to give a stun on the shoulder. This would be a stun during the chase. 

    Ah, my bad. I misunderstood what you meant.

    In practice, how would this work? Activate the ability during a chase and the Killer is stunned?

    Just like a pallet. Press E to hit the killer. Not sure if the Killer could still have a chance to hit the survivor or if it would give a short time window like DH, where the survivor couldn't be hit. But then DH would be redundant. 
  • Freudentrauma Freudentrauma

    @Tsulan said:
    Amelia said:

    It's still a one time thing or when exhaustion wears off you can use it again ?

    Several uses. Just like SB. Survivors would have to choose between being able to run away or get a stun without a pallet. 

    Would that make be stronger than DH? Or does it require you to be quite close to the killer?

  • Tsulan Tsulan
    Freudentrauma said:

    @Tsulan said:
    Amelia said:

    It's still a one time thing or when exhaustion wears off you can use it again ?

    Several uses. Just like SB. Survivors would have to choose between being able to run away or get a stun without a pallet. 

    Would that make be stronger than DH? Or does it require you to be quite close to the killer?

    See the post above yours. Devs would have to test it. 
  • ChesterTheMolester ChesterTheMolester
    Or make it available after a hit (beginning of the cooldown), give them a few seconds to get away and potentially counter STBFL
  • Bravo0413 Bravo0413
    That would be kinda sweet... with the exhaustion change yes I think this could work... it would be skill based similar to dead hard... it wouldnt stack with SB... from reading this it seems balanced... 
  • Bravo0413 Bravo0413
    Anyway this could be moved to the balanced section?
  • Tsulan Tsulan
    Bravo0413 said:
    Anyway this could be moved to the balanced section?
    Wasn't sure if it belongs to wishlist or balance or somewhere else. 
  • Orion Orion

    @Tsulan said:
    Wasn't sure if it belongs to wishlist or balance or somewhere else. 

    As I understand it, Balance is for things that already exist, Wishlist is for things that don't exist yet.

  • Tsulan Tsulan
    Orion said:

    @Tsulan said:
    Wasn't sure if it belongs to wishlist or balance or somewhere else. 

    As I understand it, Balance is for things that already exist, Wishlist is for things that don't exist yet.

    I wonder if @MandyTalk gets angry if I ask her kindly to move it to the corresponding forum.
  • DeadByFlashlight DeadByFlashlight

    @Tsulan said:
    So i was thinking about a DS rework that would make both sides "happy".
    To keep true to it´s name, turn it into a "defensive weapon".
    The survivor would be able to hit and stun the killer (exhaustion status applies) like a pallet would hit and stun him.
    No free escapes from the shoulder, but a small stun during a chase.

    What do you think?

    EDIT: It would be usable like DH during a chase, when the survivor is injured but not downed.

    That was the idea the devs came up with and that was considered not "satsifying"
    Come back in 2019 for the DS rework, but maybe it even gets delayed to 2020, wouldnt even be surprised considering that the perk already exists 2 years now with this broken free escape design

  • Tsulan Tsulan

    @DeadByFlashlight said:

    @Tsulan said:
    So i was thinking about a DS rework that would make both sides "happy".
    To keep true to it´s name, turn it into a "defensive weapon".
    The survivor would be able to hit and stun the killer (exhaustion status applies) like a pallet would hit and stun him.
    No free escapes from the shoulder, but a small stun during a chase.

    What do you think?

    EDIT: It would be usable like DH during a chase, when the survivor is injured but not downed.

    That was the idea the devs came up with and that was considered not "satsifying"
    Come back in 2019 for the DS rework, but maybe it even gets delayed to 2020, wouldnt even be surprised considering that the perk already exists 2 years now with this broken free escape design

    Please read again.
    The dev proposal was to stun the killer while the survivor is on the shoulder trying to wiggle out.
    My proposal is to use it like DH during a chase.

  • DeadByFlashlight DeadByFlashlight

    @Tsulan said:

    @DeadByFlashlight said:

    @Tsulan said:
    So i was thinking about a DS rework that would make both sides "happy".
    To keep true to it´s name, turn it into a "defensive weapon".
    The survivor would be able to hit and stun the killer (exhaustion status applies) like a pallet would hit and stun him.
    No free escapes from the shoulder, but a small stun during a chase.

    What do you think?

    EDIT: It would be usable like DH during a chase, when the survivor is injured but not downed.

    That was the idea the devs came up with and that was considered not "satsifying"
    Come back in 2019 for the DS rework, but maybe it even gets delayed to 2020, wouldnt even be surprised considering that the perk already exists 2 years now with this broken free escape design

    Please read again.
    The dev proposal was to stun the killer while the survivor is on the shoulder trying to wiggle out.
    My proposal is to use it like DH during a chase.

    "The survivor would be able to hit and stun the killer ike a pallet would hit and stun him.
    No free escapes from the shoulder, but a small stun during a chase."

    Thats was exactly the devs idea, basically other teammates were supposed to come and blind the killer during that "DH". the only difference was that devs didnt bother with exhaustion

  • Freudentrauma Freudentrauma

    @DeadByFlashlight said:

    @Tsulan said:

    @DeadByFlashlight said:

    @Tsulan said:
    So i was thinking about a DS rework that would make both sides "happy".
    To keep true to it´s name, turn it into a "defensive weapon".
    The survivor would be able to hit and stun the killer (exhaustion status applies) like a pallet would hit and stun him.
    No free escapes from the shoulder, but a small stun during a chase.

    What do you think?

    EDIT: It would be usable like DH during a chase, when the survivor is injured but not downed.

    That was the idea the devs came up with and that was considered not "satsifying"
    Come back in 2019 for the DS rework, but maybe it even gets delayed to 2020, wouldnt even be surprised considering that the perk already exists 2 years now with this broken free escape design

    Please read again.
    The dev proposal was to stun the killer while the survivor is on the shoulder trying to wiggle out.
    My proposal is to use it like DH during a chase.

    "The survivor would be able to hit and stun the killer ike a pallet would hit and stun him.
    No free escapes from the shoulder, but a small stun during a chase."

    Thats was exactly the devs idea, basically other teammates were supposed to come and blind the killer during that "DH". the only difference was that devs didnt bother with exhaustion

    No the Devs idea was a stun on the shoulder. Tsulan's idea is a stun during the chase, the time you are actively beeing able to do something.

  • DeadByFlashlight DeadByFlashlight

    @Freudentrauma said:

    @DeadByFlashlight said:

    @Tsulan said:

    @DeadByFlashlight said:

    @Tsulan said:
    So i was thinking about a DS rework that would make both sides "happy".
    To keep true to it´s name, turn it into a "defensive weapon".
    The survivor would be able to hit and stun the killer (exhaustion status applies) like a pallet would hit and stun him.
    No free escapes from the shoulder, but a small stun during a chase.

    What do you think?

    EDIT: It would be usable like DH during a chase, when the survivor is injured but not downed.

    That was the idea the devs came up with and that was considered not "satsifying"
    Come back in 2019 for the DS rework, but maybe it even gets delayed to 2020, wouldnt even be surprised considering that the perk already exists 2 years now with this broken free escape design

    Please read again.
    The dev proposal was to stun the killer while the survivor is on the shoulder trying to wiggle out.
    My proposal is to use it like DH during a chase.

    "The survivor would be able to hit and stun the killer ike a pallet would hit and stun him.
    No free escapes from the shoulder, but a small stun during a chase."

    Thats was exactly the devs idea, basically other teammates were supposed to come and blind the killer during that "DH". the only difference was that devs didnt bother with exhaustion

    No the Devs idea was a stun on the shoulder. Tsulan's idea is a stun during the chase, the time you are actively beeing able to do something.

    Oh now I understand, you mean like pebble sth you throw at the killer during chase before you even downed him, I see.

    But how would this work? Do you have to aim at the killer?

    The problem I see with this is that if you make it a "guaranteed" stun, then this can be used to free survivors on the killer shoulder too, just with the difference that the one using the perk is not the guy on the shoulder

  • Tsulan Tsulan

    @DeadByFlashlight said:

    @Freudentrauma said:

    @DeadByFlashlight said:

    @Tsulan said:

    @DeadByFlashlight said:

    @Tsulan said:
    So i was thinking about a DS rework that would make both sides "happy".
    To keep true to it´s name, turn it into a "defensive weapon".
    The survivor would be able to hit and stun the killer (exhaustion status applies) like a pallet would hit and stun him.
    No free escapes from the shoulder, but a small stun during a chase.

    What do you think?

    EDIT: It would be usable like DH during a chase, when the survivor is injured but not downed.

    That was the idea the devs came up with and that was considered not "satsifying"
    Come back in 2019 for the DS rework, but maybe it even gets delayed to 2020, wouldnt even be surprised considering that the perk already exists 2 years now with this broken free escape design

    Please read again.
    The dev proposal was to stun the killer while the survivor is on the shoulder trying to wiggle out.
    My proposal is to use it like DH during a chase.

    "The survivor would be able to hit and stun the killer ike a pallet would hit and stun him.
    No free escapes from the shoulder, but a small stun during a chase."

    Thats was exactly the devs idea, basically other teammates were supposed to come and blind the killer during that "DH". the only difference was that devs didnt bother with exhaustion

    No the Devs idea was a stun on the shoulder. Tsulan's idea is a stun during the chase, the time you are actively beeing able to do something.

    Oh now I understand, you mean like pebble sth you throw at the killer during chase before you even downed him, I see.

    But how would this work? Do you have to aim at the killer?

    The problem I see with this is that if you make it a "guaranteed" stun, then this can be used to free survivors on the killer shoulder too, just with the difference that the one using the perk is not the guy on the shoulder

    Well, they could add a timer like the pebble has. Survivor who wants to use DS had to be chased by the killer for 10-15 seconds in the last minute. Just an idea tho.

  • Boss Boss

    Sounds like Dead Hard would become the worse version.
    Especially if they don't run Enduring.

  • Bravo0413 Bravo0413
    DeadByFlashlight said:

    @Freudentrauma said:

    @DeadByFlashlight said:

    @Tsulan said:

    @DeadByFlashlight said:

    @Tsulan said:
    So i was thinking about a DS rework that would make both sides "happy".
    To keep true to it´s name, turn it into a "defensive weapon".
    The survivor would be able to hit and stun the killer (exhaustion status applies) like a pallet would hit and stun him.
    No free escapes from the shoulder, but a small stun during a chase.

    What do you think?

    EDIT: It would be usable like DH during a chase, when the survivor is injured but not downed.

    That was the idea the devs came up with and that was considered not "satsifying"
    Come back in 2019 for the DS rework, but maybe it even gets delayed to 2020, wouldnt even be surprised considering that the perk already exists 2 years now with this broken free escape design

    Please read again.
    The dev proposal was to stun the killer while the survivor is on the shoulder trying to wiggle out.
    My proposal is to use it like DH during a chase.

    "The survivor would be able to hit and stun the killer ike a pallet would hit and stun him.
    No free escapes from the shoulder, but a small stun during a chase."

    Thats was exactly the devs idea, basically other teammates were supposed to come and blind the killer during that "DH". the only difference was that devs didnt bother with exhaustion

    No the Devs idea was a stun on the shoulder. Tsulan's idea is a stun during the chase, the time you are actively beeing able to do something.

    Oh now I understand, you mean like pebble sth you throw at the killer during chase before you even downed him, I see.

    But how would this work? Do you have to aim at the killer?

    The problem I see with this is that if you make it a "guaranteed" stun, then this can be used to free survivors on the killer shoulder too, just with the difference that the one using the perk is not the guy on the shoulder

    Yeah this the type of stuff that I was starting to think of... more than 1 person stunning the killer... 1 person stuns then after the animation another survivor stuns... to get around this there should be a timing like a flashlight save for the off the shoulder saves and make to where if you're too early it wastes the perk and causes exhaustion... to prevent 4 stuns non stop it should be required to be in a chase
  • lyric lyric
    Tsulan said:

    So i was thinking about a DS rework that would make both sides "happy".
    To keep true to it´s name, turn it into a "defensive weapon".
    The survivor would be able to hit and stun the killer (exhaustion status applies) like a pallet would hit and stun him.
    No free escapes from the shoulder, but a small stun during a chase.

    What do you think?

    EDIT: It would be usable like DH during a chase, when the survivor is injured but not downed.

    I like it but I feel like it makes dead hard pointless, what if it was usable while the killer was carrying another survivor to the hook like be a stick or something that breaks on contact with the killer, stuns them and frees your teammate, I feel like it would make it less cheap because you have to have at least two survivors to make it happen and it’s a decision on using it at the moment or a waiting On a better opportunity 
  • Tsulan Tsulan

    @lyric said:
    Tsulan said:

    So i was thinking about a DS rework that would make both sides "happy".

    To keep true to it´s name, turn it into a "defensive weapon".

    The survivor would be able to hit and stun the killer (exhaustion status applies) like a pallet would hit and stun him.

    No free escapes from the shoulder, but a small stun during a chase.

    What do you think?

    EDIT: It would be usable like DH during a chase, when the survivor is injured but not downed.

    I like it but I feel like it makes dead hard pointless, what if it was usable while the killer was carrying another survivor to the hook like be a stick or something that breaks on contact with the killer, stuns them and frees your teammate, I feel like it would make it less cheap because you have to have at least two survivors to make it happen and it’s a decision on using it at the moment or a waiting On a better opportunity 

    It could have a timer like the pebble. Survivor had to be chased for at least 10 or 15 seconds in the last minute, to be able to use it against the killer. It would only make DH useless, if it gives a invulnerability like DH does. Otherwise it would be like a portable pallet with the risk of getting hit by the killer.

  • lyric lyric
    Tsulan said:

    @lyric said:
    Tsulan said:

    So i was thinking about a DS rework that would make both sides "happy".

    To keep true to it´s name, turn it into a "defensive weapon".

    The survivor would be able to hit and stun the killer (exhaustion status applies) like a pallet would hit and stun him.

    No free escapes from the shoulder, but a small stun during a chase.

    What do you think?

    EDIT: It would be usable like DH during a chase, when the survivor is injured but not downed.

    I like it but I feel like it makes dead hard pointless, what if it was usable while the killer was carrying another survivor to the hook like be a stick or something that breaks on contact with the killer, stuns them and frees your teammate, I feel like it would make it less cheap because you have to have at least two survivors to make it happen and it’s a decision on using it at the moment or a waiting On a better opportunity 

    It could have a timer like the pebble. Survivor had to be chased for at least 10 or 15 seconds in the last minute, to be able to use it against the killer. It would only make DH useless, if it gives a invulnerability like DH does. Otherwise it would be like a portable pallet with the risk of getting hit by the killer.

    I think it’s a good idea I would like to see it tested out , it may end up being a tad bit OP is my only worry but something along those lines would be really cool and probably draw less salt than it’s current state because I feel like the only reason those people get mad is they feel like they’ve won the chase only to have that ripped away from them along with losing the person sometimes after that
  • BACKSTABBER BACKSTABBER

    DS is the ethernal waste of energy debate

    plz fukin give up, not even a dozen of PhD theses are gonna find the balanced solution

    it is better to turn a blind eye, devs believe

  • Seanzu Seanzu

    Wow, all the people in here who don't even read the actual post.

    Anyway, I like the idea but feel it's too similar to dead hard, dead hard basically fakes a hit and so they get "stunned", but also dead hard is more bateable, if this is activatable a killer wouldn't be able to counter it and because of that I think it might be a little too strong, maybe a safe unhook + injured to activate?

    (I realise you stated somewhere that they have to be injured to activate but has multiple charges which I think is just too strong).

    Also, would an injured survivor be able to stun a killer carrying a survivor? There's lots of things we need to figure out.

  • Raccoon Raccoon
    DS should be INSTANT (no wiggle) for all survivors and only accessible after hook two. 

    If successful, it acts normally.

    If not, the survivor still performs the roll off animation (solves the "animation" issue), but lands in the Dying state - They can now be Moried for free.

    This provides an activation condition, still allows the perk to be strong, but introduces the caveat that if you get hooked 2x this may be your most DECISIVE action. 
  • Seanzu Seanzu

    @Raccoon said:
    DS should be INSTANT (no wiggle) for all survivors and only accessible afterafter two. 

    If successful, it acts as normally.

    If not, the survivor still performs the roll off animation (solves the "animation" issue), but lands in the Dying state - They can now be Moried for free.

    This provides an avtivatact condition, still allows the perk to be strong, but introduces the caveat that if you get hooked 2x this may be your most DECISIVE action. 

    Nah, not at all - there'd be nothing worse than reaching end game and downing some survivors just for them to use DS on you and run out the gate, screw that.

  • ChesterTheMolester ChesterTheMolester
    TBH atleast they should reduce stun time and remove the cancerous 35% requirement for non-obsession in the meantime. 
  • Tsulan Tsulan

    @SenzuDuck said:
    Wow, all the people in here who don't even read the actual post.

    Anyway, I like the idea but feel it's too similar to dead hard, dead hard basically fakes a hit and so they get "stunned", but also dead hard is more bateable, if this is activatable a killer wouldn't be able to counter it and because of that I think it might be a little too strong, maybe a safe unhook + injured to activate?

    (I realise you stated somewhere that they have to be injured to activate but has multiple charges which I think is just too strong).

    Also, would an injured survivor be able to stun a killer carrying a survivor? There's lots of things we need to figure out.

    I don´t want it to be OP, but an alternative for other Exhaustion perks:

    • it could either be activatable while injured (like DH) or not. IF it gives a short invulnerability, it would be to much like DH. So i think it shouldn´t make the survivor invulnerable and it should be usable whenever the survivor wants (while he is not exhausted. Exhaustion addons can disable it.)
    • killer can down the survivor while he uses it.
    • it should require a pre chase timer. A survivor would have to be chased 15 (as obsession) seconds before its use. He then has 60 seconds time to use it (lower levels could be 40 and 50 seconds).
    • non obsession survivors would have to be chased 30 seconds to activate it
    • it can be used to free other survivors from the shoulder of the killer.
    • it can be used several times.
    • the stun is the same stun as a pallet stun. Endurance would be the direct counter.

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