New Unhealthy Gameplay Loop Survivor Laziness

bjorksnas

So I've been around a bit and currently I'm seeing the same type of complaint issue arise in the community first with noed and now more often with ruin undying.

The gameplay loop im talking about is lazy survivors.

Heres how it starts

Survivor plays a game vs noed / ruin undying

Survivor doesn't do the side objectives of cleanse totems

Survivor complains about ruin undying / noed rewarding the killer because they were lazy to use counterplay because it would take any amount of time away from their main objective instead of adapting their strategy

repeat

This gameplay loop is also a great example of why side objectives are hard to add to the game because survivors want to be lazy and anything that takes away from their main objective in the slightest is going to be relentlessly complained about especially if it capitalizes on the fact they are lazy.

I don't know what it is about survivors but all this does is make those perks even stronger because instead of spending your time countering them you spend your time complaining instead of adapting.

Overall change your strategy or give up a perk slot on a team or as a solo survivor to COMPLETELY REMOVE 1 or more of the killers perks every game

ChurchofPig

@TotemsCleanser said:

Totem spawns are a huge problem. Let me explain myself, as someone who mostly mains survivors and is ALWAYS doing as many totems as possible.

Around 6/7 months ago, I got so tired of NOED that I decided I would be doing all totems by my own if that was necessary. I usually play SWF so many times I can count on my friends to do some bones, but when I play solo Q I mostly have to rely on myself only. So, back then, I started learning totem spawns. Every totem spawn in every map. I carries Detective's Hunch around, sometimes also a map, solely for this purpose. I watched some videos about totem spawns in specific realms to memorize them. Overall, it's a huge task and I am still learning (yes, even after all these months) but I have generally grasped where most totems spawn in each map.

Having all this knowledge, I can say quite a few things about totem spawns. Because some of them are so good, and some of them so bad, that it's ######### crazy. I believe that the pinnacle of totem spawn balance lies on Grave of Glenvale. Totems do not spawn out in the open, but you will be able to find them as long as you're looking for them and you're not in too much of a hurry (say, there's a teammate on the hook and NOED is up). There's very few "bad" totem spawns in this map, say the one in the windmill, the one in shack and the one in the main building (which can be tricky because there actually a lot of totem spawn spots in that saloon, lol).

There's two particular maps that have insane totem spawns, at least in my opinion. Part of this is due to the fact that I easily get lost in those maps, and I probably end up checking the same places multiple times without realizing. These are Hawkins and Lery's. Very few weak totem spawns (gates for both maps, Demogorgon thingy and upper floor for Hawkins are the only ones I can think of rn), and many strong ones that are hard to spot per se, and even more if you take into account that everything looks similar in that map and it's hard to pinpoint which places you have already checked and which ones you have not.

The following strongest maps (not as strong as Hawkins and Lery's, imo, but still strong) are Silent Hill and The Game. Again, maps in which it's easy to get lost as a survivor, but that have many spots in which it's easy to see the totem without even looking for it, and also some memorable spots like the bathroom ones in both maps, the door ones in The Game, the 3rd floor one in Silent Hill to give some examples. Some other totem spawns in these maps are really well hidden though. And Silent Hill has an extra problem, which is that it requires you to check every area twice, because you need to check inside the classrooms and on the hallways, and in order to do this you usually need to go back lol.

Every other map in the game, except for perhaps the Swamp (a map that makes many non-totem-connoisseurs (?) struggle because of the edge of the map spawns and stuff) has very weak totem spawns. Coldwind, MacMillan, Azarov and Crotus Prenn are great examples of these. Easy to randomly see, a lot of memorable spots, so many identical tiles that have the same exact totem spawn, etc. I rarely struggle to find any totems in these maps.

Why am I saying all of this? Because maps and killers can drastically change how big of a task it is to actually find and do totems without throwing the whole game away. It's not the same finding all five totems in Lery's than in Shelter Woods. It's not the same to find all five totems against a addon-less Wraith than against a rank 1 Spirit with good addons. The game is about economy of time. You need to do your objective faster than your enemy can do theirs. Rank 1 Spirit players, from my experience, are extremely good at their objective. Add-onless Wraith players, usually not so much. Please don't "but oh my god survivors are so OP they can loop even a good Spirit player" because my point here is that some killers have it easier to do their objective fast than others. Not that you cannot win against the Spirit, lol.

All of this being said, I feel there are three totem perks that are the hot topic in these forums. The first one is NOED. I don't think NOED is OP as ######### as some others believe, but I believe it's a little bullshit. Because having to do five whole ass totems to MAYBE counter a perk the killer might not even have, feels a little bullshit to me. Don't get me wrong: most times, I will try to do those totems. I stopped being one of those "lazy" survivors you talked about who refuse to do more than one bone long ago. But you must take into consideration that doing five bones (yes! only five) can be A LOT sometimes. In maps where totem spawns are hellish, like Lery's, it can be VERY tough to find them all and at the same time be doing gens. You usually have to sacrifice a LOT of time to do this. And like I said, this game is about time management. The faster you do your thing, the better chances you have of winning. Now if you're on SWF it /is/ easier to find all totems and get rid of them. But this game isn't only SWF. Solo Q survivors exist and, well, like you said, survivors /are/ lazy many times. And I can't torture randoms on comms with my constant "do bones or I swear to ######### god" the way I do with my SWF team.

Then on other maps (Coldwind and MacMillan being the best examples, imo) doing all five totems is easy and you can actually manage to get rid of them ridiculously fast. I remember one particular game in Coldwind where I got rid of all totems within like 3 minutes of the game being started, lol. This is generally not the rule, of course, but my point is that overall (depending on the killer you're paired up against, of course) you can usually afford to do all bones in these maps if you're trying really hard to avoid NOED.

Now, the other two hex perks that people have been talking about a lot are, of course, the Ruin + Undying combo. Now there's a lot to say about this combo, because it can be somewhat useful to OP as ######### depending on many things. First: the aura reading grants some killers enough time to actually get to the totem and shoo the survivor away before they can cleanse it, for example Spirit, Freddy, Billy, Blight and Nurse can easily play off a play like this. You will think "well, but then survivors can distract these killers so that, meanwhile, their teammate can do the bones!!" and while this is entirely true, this requires survivors to be in some sort of comms most times. SWF is what I mean. That's the second factor when it comes to R+UD in my opinion: survs on comms can easily communicate to each other when it's entirely safe to do the bones. They can also entirely counter this combo by communicating and finding not only one but BOTH totems before cleansing any of them, then cleansing both simultaneously. Then, the killer won't be able to be in both places at the same time, and you'll make sure that you get rid of UD so you'll have to do only one extra totem max aside of those two. Easy, right? As long as you're on comms. And as long as, again, you're not in one of those hellish maps where totem spawns are so good that you usually spend too much time looking for totems, and when you finally find them it doesn't really matter anymore. That's the obvious third factor: maps. R+UD is a complicated combo to analyze in my opinion because it relies too much on RNG + these three factors I've mentioned above. It can be literally useless against good, communicated SWF with totem spawn knowledge. It's deadly if survivors can't manage to find the totems, despite actively looking for them (not being lazy!). It's also very RNG reliant because of the random map thingy, the particular totem spawns it will spawn in, and the particular place in the map that survivors will spawn at (because survivors often spawn next to lit totems, and that should definitely not be happening for ######### sake).

Why did I write this long ass comment that probably no one will read? Well, first because I love totems and any chance to talk about them I WILL take, lol. Secondly, because I wanted to bring actual insight into the matter, analyze it from all possible perspectives that I can think of, because I feel that very often the analysis that people make when it comes to this particular aspect of the game is superficial to say the least. And third, to bring my totem-cleanser, mostly-survivor-main perspective onto the table, because I feel that as someone who can definitely NOT be considered lazy when it comes to totems, I have a lot to say lol.

There is really no conclusion to this post. I just wanted to explain why both sides mainstream opinions are partly right and partly wrong when it comes to totems and hex perks. If you have read this whole bible, I hope you have some amazing DBD matches tonight and thank you for keeping up with me until now. Lol.

You're the kind of survivor who I definitely think should have a voice about the matter because you aren't being lazy. You're trying. I agree with what you have to say about the amount of RNG when it comes to totems. If you get stuck on an inside map, I do believe unless you're bringing Detective's Hunch you're probably going to miss 1 or 2 or maybe all totems. When playing killer I think it's more impressive if they're all broken (which I only notices as Nurse or Plague who I bring NOED on) on the inside maps. I think many of the maps need reworked totem spots. The inside maps/Swamp maps need easier spots because many of the spots are really difficult to spawn (except for a few that maybe need a little buff like the ones by the doors on The Game). I do not expect if I'm in a lobby of all solo q survivors for them all to broken. Also, I feel like if you're facing a rank 1 Spirit like in your example, it's also fair to say they aren't bringing NOED so it would be more worth your time to be doing the generators than totems like in your example. If you're facing a Wraith with no good add-ons or just no add-ons, maybe spare a minute or 2 to go totem hunting isn't a bad idea because it could be a real possibility of NOED.

As far as Ruin + Undying, I feel like the problem is more Undying. If you get stuck on a map with good rng for totems, that combo can be much harder to face than others. You also have a point that unless you're in a comms/swf group you probably can't depend on someone to go to that totem unless someone else stumbles upon it or you were running/walking/crouching with someone when you stumbled upon it. I feel like Undying is probably hard to balance to make the combo weaker because of all the rng involved and the other factors (such as amount of totems broken). Totem spots on all maps need to be reworked honestly. That's correct.

The fact that most maps are really easy to find totems on and then like 6 of them you can maybe find 1 to save your life is kind of hard to deal with. Especially when faced with NOED or Ruin + Undying. I almost feel like before messing with anymore hex perks they need to take a look at totem spawn points first.

TotemsCleanser

@ChurchofPig said:

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1849099#Comment_1849099

You're the kind of survivor who I definitely think should have a voice about the matter because you aren't being lazy. You're trying. I agree with what you have to say about the amount of RNG when it comes to totems. If you get stuck on an inside map, I do believe unless you're bringing Detective's Hunch you're probably going to miss 1 or 2 or maybe all totems. When playing killer I think it's more impressive if they're all broken (which I only notices as Nurse or Plague who I bring NOED on) on the inside maps. I think many of the maps need reworked totem spots. The inside maps/Swamp maps need easier spots because many of the spots are really difficult to spawn (except for a few that maybe need a little buff like the ones by the doors on The Game). I do not expect if I'm in a lobby of all solo q survivors for them all to broken. Also, I feel like if you're facing a rank 1 Spirit like in your example, it's also fair to say they aren't bringing NOED so it would be more worth your time to be doing the generators than totems like in your example. If you're facing a Wraith with no good add-ons or just no add-ons, maybe spare a minute or 2 to go totem hunting isn't a bad idea because it could be a real possibility of NOED.

As far as Ruin + Undying, I feel like the problem is more Undying. If you get stuck on a map with good rng for totems, that combo can be much harder to face than others. You also have a point that unless you're in a comms/swf group you probably can't depend on someone to go to that totem unless someone else stumbles upon it or you were running/walking/crouching with someone when you stumbled upon it. I feel like Undying is probably hard to balance to make the combo weaker because of all the rng involved and the other factors (such as amount of totems broken). Totem spots on all maps need to be reworked honestly. That's correct.

The fact that most maps are really easy to find totems on and then like 6 of them you can maybe find 1 to save your life is kind of hard to deal with. Especially when faced with NOED or Ruin + Undying. I almost feel like before messing with anymore hex perks they need to take a look at totem spawn points first.

I agree with all you've said.

The thing about the rank 1 Spirit player is completely true. Many trials, as a survivor, you can kind of predict if the killer will have NOED or not. For example, if the killer is playing extremely well, with my friends we assume that this guy is not running NOED and decide to focus on gens because 1. sometimes killers are just SO good that you know your only chance of escaping lies at genrushing them 2. the situation has already gotten so bad that you just know that you're, most likely, not reaching the end game, so what even is the point of touching the bones lol. You can also sometimes track the killer perks, and if you manage to identify four different perks, you already know that the killer is not running NOED. This must of course be done with care, because some killer perks are tough to track sometimes (many times have I claimed "this guy definitely has Nurse's/BBQ/etc" when in fact they didn't, lmao), but sometimes you can just know like with idk R+UD+Sloppy+Tinkerer for example.

Then many times we face a struggling Wraith, Trapper, Clown or Myers (the killers that run NOED the most, from my experience) and we just know there's a huge chance that they are running NOED. Specially if they don't seem to care too much about gens being done, or if it feels like they have no perks at all. But also if they are just bad at chases and need a little help from that perk.

And yes, definitely, in my killer matches, totems are rarely getting done. When R+UD is up, survs definitely try and go for totems, but when there's no hex perk up, they rarely do. I don't really run NOED on any killers but Deathslinger because I'm learning to play as him and need that extra help, and also because I feel that he's the killer that can take the most advantage from this perk. Yesterday I was doing this archive about hooking people during the endgame collapse, so I picked Deathslinger and the times we actually reached the endgame collapse, NOED always lit up. And most of my matches happened in weak totem maps like Coldwind, Crotus Prenn and MacMillan if I recall correctly?? But totems were just still standing there. I wish more people actually did the bones honestly. I try to encourage every person I meet in the game to do so, but then again there's just so much that one maniac totem cleanser can do, lol.

Kolonite

I can’t believe the stupid survivors don’t think they should be forced to do every single totem on the map while wasting a major amount of time and hook states.

Kolonite

@bjorksnas said:

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1848682#Comment_1848682

I never brought game balance into the discussion

I brought the gameplay loop of survivors refuse to do easy counters to remove killers ENTIRE PERKS

then complain that the perks punish their laziness

Heres a very short example of what survivors sound like doing this

you have to press a button 5 times before pressing this other button, even though the other button gives you a reward

survivors but I don't want to push the other button 5 times (complains up a storm)

thats what they sound like

That’s not how totems work and you dumbing it down to such a degree makes you look ingenious. You need to spend time checking every totem spawn and sitting on every totem for fourteen seconds. On top of that you have to deal with the killer chasing you off totems because of the free aura reading. During all this your team will be sacrificing hook states while not making progress on the main objective because they’re being forced into doing a side objective. This also hurts solos much more than swfs. A -good- swf can handle ruin/undying fairly well.

lagosta

Even when using Detective's Hunch, doing totems is not my highest priority. To optimize my chances and time, it's better to do a gen first, have the perk activate and see the general location of the totems before going for them. Often times, I need the perk to activate twice to find all totems. In the meantime, the killer is chasing, hooking, and interrupting gens bc of Tinkerer. Not infrequently, we need to fix the equivalent of 7-8 gens bc ruin undid lots of work.

Now compare that to Pop, which is also considered a top tier perk. Killers often on this forum argue that they can get an average of 4-5 activations, that is equivalent to 1-1.25 gen regression.

I can say that on my recent matches, if the killer lost with Ruin+Undying one of 2 scenarios happened:

1-Extremely unlucky totem spawn.

2-They didn't play to the strength of the perks they brought, by shooing survivors of gens.

Suffice to say, Detective's Hunch is a staple in my builds bc if left Unchecked Ruin+Undying can be devastating. It's not only you that's losing perk slots when your totems are cleansed, I am also losing DH when I go in a trial that the killer brought no hexes.

bjorksnas

@lagosta said:

Even when using Detective's Hunch, doing totems is not my highest priority. To optimize my chances and time, it's better to do a gen first, have the perk activate and see the general location of the totems before going for them. Often times, I need the perk to activate twice to find all totems. In the meantime, the killer is chasing, hooking, and interrupting gens bc of Tinkerer. Not infrequently, we need to fix the equivalent of 7-8 gens bc ruin undid lots of work.

Now compare that to Pop, which is also considered a top tier perk. Killers often on this forum argue that they can get an average of 4-5 activations, that is equivalent to 1-1.25 gen regression.

I can say that on my recent matches, if the killer lost with Ruin+Undying one of 2 scenarios happened:

1-Extremely unlucky totem spawn.

2-They didn't play to the strength of the perks they brought, by shooing survivors of gens.

Suffice to say, Detective's Hunch is a staple in my builds bc if left Unchecked Ruin+Undying can be devastating. It's not only you that's losing perk slots when your totems are cleansed, I am also losing DH when I go in a trial that the killer brought no hexes.

but also remember that pop is commonly paired with corrupt, which prevents about 1 gen worth of early gen progress from stopping survivors doing a gen where they spawned + forcing them into you for early game chase + pressure

you are comparing a 2 perk combo to an individual perk when it can just as easily be paired with more perks

bjorksnas

@Kolonite said:

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1848705#Comment_1848705

That’s not how totems work and you dumbing it down to such a degree makes you look ingenious. You need to spend time checking every totem spawn and sitting on every totem for fourteen seconds. On top of that you have to deal with the killer chasing you off totems because of the free aura reading. During all this your team will be sacrificing hook states while not making progress on the main objective because they’re being forced into doing a side objective. This also hurts solos much more than swfs. A -good- swf can handle ruin/undying fairly well.

you don't need to check every totem spawn because thats not how totem spawns work, generally they have a set range where if you cleansed a totem other totems spawn at a decent range away, if you check the totem spot next to where you just cleansed a totem you are just begging yourself to waste your own time

if the killer is spending all that time chasing you off totems then they wouldn't have time to hook other survivors

also this is exactly why we can't add a side objective because survivors will complain

ruin undying is effectively why a side objective wouldn't work in this game, its lazy survivors

bjorksnas

@[Deleted User] said:

it's just like i thought, the solo survivors don't want to try because they don't expect their teammates to try as well. and because they've never played swf, they ignore the overpowered advantages swf can potentially give.

so its socialism and communism all over again but in video games

bjorksnas

@ukenicky said:

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1848865#Comment_1848865

This is exactly why I think totem cleansing should be reworked so that if you let go of it it will regress slowly like a generator, rather than going straight to 0 instantly.

If they changed totems like this I actually think Ruin Undying wouldn't need to be nerfed.

I do think this change would be nice

but im thinking how it would go instead is

totems take 15 seconds to cleanse, and in 5 second increments a candle below the totem is extinguished and it locks its progress there

that way the devs have nice clean even numbers to work with

valvarez4

@bjorksnas said:

So I've been around a bit and currently I'm seeing the same type of complaint issue arise in the community first with noed and now more often with ruin undying.

The gameplay loop im talking about is lazy survivors.

Heres how it starts

Survivor plays a game vs noed / ruin undying

Survivor doesn't do the side objectives of cleanse totems

Survivor complains about ruin undying / noed rewarding the killer because they were lazy to use counterplay because it would take any amount of time away from their main objective instead of adapting their strategy

repeat

This gameplay loop is also a great example of why side objectives are hard to add to the game because survivors want to be lazy and anything that takes away from their main objective in the slightest is going to be relentlessly complained about especially if it capitalizes on the fact they are lazy.

I don't know what it is about survivors but all this does is make those perks even stronger because instead of spending your time countering them you spend your time complaining instead of adapting.

Overall change your strategy or give up a perk slot on a team or as a solo survivor to COMPLETELY REMOVE 1 or more of the killers perks every game

Another killer that needs to feel superior and powerful in a video game

lagosta

@bjorksnas said:

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1849880#Comment_1849880

but also remember that pop is commonly paired with corrupt, which prevents about 1 gen worth of early gen progress from stopping survivors doing a gen where they spawned + forcing them into you for early game chase + pressure

you are comparing a 2 perk combo to an individual perk when it can just as easily be paired with more perks

Bc corrupt provides map control and not regression, you cannot not reliably translate one into the other. You can argue the since they are hexes they need to be powerful, and that's true. What I am saying is that if perks alone or in combination are so powerful that you need to be pigeonholed into using or countering them, then we have a balance problem.

Matches with Ruin+Undying are polarizing, the killer either stomps the team or the survivors get rid of half of the killer's perks 2 minutes into the game.

Dennis_van_eijk

@valvarez4 said:

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/216770/new-unhealthy-gameplay-loop-survivor-laziness

Another killer that needs to feel superior and powerful in a video game

😂😂

Dude instead of rebeling against killers and how "OP" they are and everything is in their favour, maybe spent a time playing killer as rank 1 for a month or so.

No survivor, only killer.

Bla Bla Bla yeah of course you've already done that and it is as easy af Bla Bla Bla.

I bet, and I could be wrong even though I highly doubt that, that the only time you have played kler was maybe when you first started playing the game.

But only a few before you switched to survivor and nothing else anymore.

As I said, I could be wrong but I don't think I am on this one.

ChurchofPig

@TotemsCleanser said:

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1849124#Comment_1849124

I agree with all you've said.

The thing about the rank 1 Spirit player is completely true. Many trials, as a survivor, you can kind of predict if the killer will have NOED or not. For example, if the killer is playing extremely well, with my friends we assume that this guy is not running NOED and decide to focus on gens because 1. sometimes killers are just SO good that you know your only chance of escaping lies at genrushing them 2. the situation has already gotten so bad that you just know that you're, most likely, not reaching the end game, so what even is the point of touching the bones lol. You can also sometimes track the killer perks, and if you manage to identify four different perks, you already know that the killer is not running NOED. This must of course be done with care, because some killer perks are tough to track sometimes (many times have I claimed "this guy definitely has Nurse's/BBQ/etc" when in fact they didn't, lmao), but sometimes you can just know like with idk R+UD+Sloppy+Tinkerer for example.

Then many times we face a struggling Wraith, Trapper, Clown or Myers (the killers that run NOED the most, from my experience) and we just know there's a huge chance that they are running NOED. Specially if they don't seem to care too much about gens being done, or if it feels like they have no perks at all. But also if they are just bad at chases and need a little help from that perk.

And yes, definitely, in my killer matches, totems are rarely getting done. When R+UD is up, survs definitely try and go for totems, but when there's no hex perk up, they rarely do. I don't really run NOED on any killers but Deathslinger because I'm learning to play as him and need that extra help, and also because I feel that he's the killer that can take the most advantage from this perk. Yesterday I was doing this archive about hooking people during the endgame collapse, so I picked Deathslinger and the times we actually reached the endgame collapse, NOED always lit up. And most of my matches happened in weak totem maps like Coldwind, Crotus Prenn and MacMillan if I recall correctly?? But totems were just still standing there. I wish more people actually did the bones honestly. I try to encourage every person I meet in the game to do so, but then again there's just so much that one maniac totem cleanser can do, lol.

I honestly just heard a rumor that the next release patch will come with a NOED gut. They're taking away it's hex status and timing how long a survivor is exposed.

valvarez4

@Dennis_van_eijk said:

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1850009#Comment_1850009

😂😂

Dude instead of rebeling against killers and how "OP" they are and everything is in their favour, maybe spent a time playing killer as rank 1 for a month or so.

No survivor, only killer.

Bla Bla Bla yeah of course you've already done that and it is as easy af Bla Bla Bla.

I bet, and I could be wrong even though I highly doubt that, that the only time you have played kler was maybe when you first started playing the game.

But only a few before you switched to survivor and nothing else anymore.

As I said, I could be wrong but I don't think I am on this one.

You say “play killer at rank 1 for a month” as you feel powerful for it. I’m a surv main, but I play killer too. I don’t need to feel powerful, I play to have fun. Also I never escape against a fair killer. I’m sure you’re another try hard killer that camp, tunnel and slug for the 4k. I don’t think I’m wrong in this too

bjorksnas

@lagosta said:

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1849985#Comment_1849985

Bc corrupt provides map control and not regression, you cannot not reliably translate one into the other. You can argue the since they are hexes they need to be powerful, and that's true. What I am saying is that if perks alone or in combination are so powerful that you need to be pigeonholed into using or countering them, then we have a balance problem.

Matches with Ruin+Undying are polarizing, the killer either stomps the team or the survivors get rid of half of the killer's perks 2 minutes into the game.

pressure is pressure, just because you can't directly tell how much because of regression doesn't mean it didn't have the same impact of creating pressure or slowing the game

you don't need to translate it to know that its still strong

bjorksnas

@valvarez4 said:

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/216770/new-unhealthy-gameplay-loop-survivor-laziness

Another killer that needs to feel superior and powerful in a video game

I play both but alright

Dennis_van_eijk

@valvarez4 said:

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1850059#Comment_1850059

You say “play killer at rank 1 for a month” as you feel powerful for it. I’m a surv main, but I play killer too. I don’t need to feel powerful, I play to have fun. Also I never escape against a fair killer. I’m sure you’re another try hard killer that camp, tunnel and slug for the 4k. I don’t think I’m wrong in this too

Yup definitely a tunneling, camping try hard killer for sure mate 😂

Before you jump to conclusions and think I am lying when I say I play both sides, my YouTube is DennisvanEijk1980.

You can definitely see what type of killer I am 😂

But just looking at your comment it shows you definitely haven't hit red ranks as killer for sure.

If you did your comment on mine would have been different and your posts and other comments would be much different too.

But good luck I guess

Dennis_van_eijk

@bjorksnas said:

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1850009#Comment_1850009

I play both but alright

Don't mind him.

He has a grudge towards killers for reasons only he knows. 🤷‍♂️

ukenicky

@bjorksnas said:

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1849023#Comment_1849023

I do think this change would be nice

but im thinking how it would go instead is

totems take 15 seconds to cleanse, and in 5 second increments a candle below the totem is extinguished and it locks its progress there

that way the devs have nice clean even numbers to work with

Oooh I like that!

Komodo16

@bjorksnas said:

So I've been around a bit and currently I'm seeing the same type of complaint issue arise in the community first with noed and now more often with ruin undying.

The gameplay loop im talking about is lazy survivors.

Heres how it starts

Survivor plays a game vs noed / ruin undying

Survivor doesn't do the side objectives of cleanse totems

Survivor complains about ruin undying / noed rewarding the killer because they were lazy to use counterplay because it would take any amount of time away from their main objective instead of adapting their strategy

repeat

This gameplay loop is also a great example of why side objectives are hard to add to the game because survivors want to be lazy and anything that takes away from their main objective in the slightest is going to be relentlessly complained about especially if it capitalizes on the fact they are lazy.

I don't know what it is about survivors but all this does is make those perks even stronger because instead of spending your time countering them you spend your time complaining instead of adapting.

Overall change your strategy or give up a perk slot on a team or as a solo survivor to COMPLETELY REMOVE 1 or more of the killers perks every game

Wasting time on totems takes multiple minutes. You can finish half the gens before all totems are cleansed unless the survs have good map knowledge. Gens need to be slower but if you add totems the gens should go faster but if totems arent all gone the exit gates can't be opened and totems need to give objective points. If you gotta waste an extra minute or 2 on totems we need to be rewarded with incentive. Totems are only useful to cleanse for inner strength and for boldness points when a killer wont chase you. Also they are a SIDE objective with no reason to cleanse them its not laziness its sticking to the important carp. Anyone who complains about totem builds and then how hard totems are are usually not good. So why listen? Why paint every survivor like that? I only get annoyed at totems when I get multiple ruin and undying or if noed is invisible or right by the camped survivor. Or if a killer constantly protects a totem like devour because I had a Freddy do that and holy he'll every down he got he would teleport to the gen right by it and defend it so he would get two downs just to keep a totem that he didnt need.