Myers Isn't As Strong As People Think He Is
Intro
Myers is one of the 2 remaining Killers who has the wrong amount of add-on rarities, and the Developers have acknowledged they're going to do an add-on rework so he has the proper number of add-ons, and hopefully less useless ones as well. However unlike Nurse, Freddy, Doctor, Hillbilly, Bubba, and soon, Clown and (I'm pretty sure) Huntress, his base power isn't being reworked or tweaked at all. Nurse has had her base power tweaked multiple times, and baby Survivors have been complaining about Billy and his ability to "go across the map in seconds, and then down you instantly with no counter play," (yeah sure, no counter play) for years so his nerf was no surprise, and I believe I heard about a Huntress base kit nerf that's coming with her add-on rework, however by comparison Freddy was by far the worst killer ever released in DBD, Doctor was bad due to very bad design which made him tedious and frustrating, Bubba was in a similarly bad situation when he was reworked, and Clown is considered the worst or one of the worst killers in the game right now. There is a concerning similarity between the 3 that have been reworked already, which is Freddy was incredibly difficult for babies, Doctor was frustrating for babies because of his great tracking, and Bubba was frustrating because of his camping potential, but I really hope this wasn't the sole reason they buffed them, because Myers is actually pretty weak in my, and most good players opinions, but he isn't really frustrating to go against so that might be why the Developers aren't planning on buffing his base. He is quite weak though, so I'll be going over his weaknesses, and potential solutions.
The Problem
So the thing about Myers is he has 3 Tiers of power. He starts out in Tier 1, and he is limited to 105% (4.2 m/s) which is quite slow, and against good survivors he will generally be starved of his power for at least a minute (I usually can starve him pretty long), and he has no ability to catch up. I understand he's supposed to be quite weak in Tier 1, and then power up and be much stronger in Tier 3, but his Tier 1 is so bad from being 105%, and his Tier 3 isn't really crazy strong either. His vault speed isn't bad (especially paired with Bamboozle, which makes him vault at essentially a Survivor's fast vault speed), and his extra lunge range isn't so bad either, but pre-dropped pallets make it essentially useless.
I understand pre-dropping counters basically everybody, but most high tier killers can technically play downed pallets. Nurse and Spirit obviously can. Hag can actually leave downed pallets and trap them which creates a mind-game of whether you'll teleport or not, Pyramid Head can stab the ground and wait until you vault, Doc can shock and deny the vault, Deathslinger can shoot you over and get a hit sometimes, Huntress can also hit you when you vault and throw over some loops, Freddy and Clown can play the more unsafe pallets by slowing them down while they loop, Billy, Bubba, Blight, Demo, and Oni can't really play them but they can zone and break the pallet nearly instantly after it's thrown so they might get the hit after, and Blight can also catch up with his power really quick after the pallet break. These are obviously a lot easier said then done (and it's usually better to just break the pallet), but the point is the killer has options. Myers can't really do anything, except bloodlust (which might be gone at some point), and hope he can get a hit because of the extra 0.1s of lunge but it really isn't likely.
Myers wasn't bad a few years ago, because people hid more, and players weren't as efficient. Being 105% in early game wasn't such a huge deal, but now moving 105% is actually super painful and can cost 2-3 Gens before you even get the ability to hit someone (Tier 2).
Another problem with Myers is he's just outclassed by other killers. Oni is just far superior as a killer who powers up, Ghostface is a better stalking killer, both Chainsaws have better 1-shot abilities, and Plague is a better killer at keeping everyone 1-shot. Finally if the Developers require an issue with the killer where he's un-fun/bs for survivors, I'm sure many would agree Myers stalking multiple players, and then in your first interaction he just stalks you for 1 second and then 1-shots you because he got right behind you is pretty annoying, so there's your reason.
Myers is meant to be a super threatening figure in the horror world. He is iconic like Jason, and Freddy, but in the most popular horror game, he is hot garbage. That is a problem. Honestly, all the licensed killers have been/are in a weak state, so a rework to any of them would be good, because it sucks seeing such iconic killers be so weak :(
Solutions
I have lots of ideas on how to buff Myers, and solve some of the problems I laid out. First off, I would make multiple changes to his different tiers of Evil Within (specifically Tier 1 and Tier 3
Tier 1
- Grants the Undetectable status
- Slightly decreased movement speed (4.4 m/s)
- Slightly decreased lunge (0.1)
- Regular vaulting speed
Most of this description is unchanged. The main change is his Tier 1 would be 110% rather then 105%. I also suggested increasing the lunge slightly, but that can remain the same to be honest. Shouldn't really be lunging in Tier 1 anyways so the lunge can remain the same honestly.
Tier 2
- Moderately decreased terror radius (16m)
- Regular movement speed (4.6 m/s)
- Regular lunge speed (0.5s)
- 12.5% increased vault speed (1.4875s)
Once again, there is essentially no change to his Tier 2. Something I might consider is slightly increasing the vault speed, or giving a small breaking speed bonus (5%?) so his Tier 2 has a more noticeable difference, and is more threatening, but I honestly I don't think it needs much of a difference.
Tier 3
- Map wide terror radius (or just a massive terror radius, like 64m)
- Regular movement speed (4.6 m/s)
- Movement speed can increase up to (4.8 m/s)
- Slightly increased lunge range (0.6s)
- 25% faster vault speed (1.275s)
- 15% faster Gen/Pallet/Wall breaking speed
- Tier 3 lasts 60 seconds before automatic Tier down
- Tier 3 downs slightly increase duration
So this clearly has quite a few changes that I think would make Myers more interesting and threatening in Tier 3, without being super oppressive. The Map wide terror radius would still be directional, and with Myers terror radius I think it would be super cool (his chase music is still one of my favorites). I also increased his vault speed a bit more, and gave him free brutal strength as an additional bonus for his chase potential (which is basically equivalent to an Oni or Demo pallet breaking with their power).
I also mentioned his movement speed would increase up to 4.8 m/s aka 120%, and that downing a survivor would increase the duration of his Tier 3. This was an attempt to make him more unique from the killers who outclass him, and stronger obviously. The idea is that Myers would be able to consume his stalk duration twice as fast (maybe only 33% faster), while holding the button for stalking (since stalking in Tier 3 is pointless) but get a movement speed increase in return. The speed increase could be +0.2 m/s maybe more, maybe less (less would probably be useless). But if you stop "Stalking" then you'll go back to 4.6 m/s and you're Stalk duration will go back to the normal pace. The other addition I had to his Tier 3, was that downing a Survivor would increase your Tier 3 by a slight amount (to make up for the faster consumption, otherwise his Tier 3 would be quite short). Obviously the Devs could tinker more with values if they wanted, but the base value I liked was 15s.
Some Other Base Kit Changes
I also felt some changes are necessary for how his stalk is. In it's current state it can take a very long time to gain stalk, and I feel for how slow it is from a far distance is just dumb.
- The Stalk efficiency decreases with distance ranging from 1.0 SP/s (6s) to 0.5 SP/s (12s)
I also feel that the limitation in how much you can stalk someone is pretty low. I definitely think the restriction on how much you can stalk someone should be lessened. An alternate solution I had was instead of the downing survivor duration bonus, you could have unlimited stalk on all survivors (this could also be an add-on).
The final change I had to Myers is more of a quality of life, and it would solve the annoyance survivors face when the Myers just 1-taps you when he first sees you:
- Stalking to full will no longer fully Tier you up. You must press the active ability button, after filling up the Stalk meter to Tier up.
- Tiering up will trigger a 1.5s grace period or a "Tier Up Phase"
- Terror radius gradually increases for the duration of the Tier Up Phase
- During Tier Up Phase you see Survivors auras (or Killer instinct) for 3s
Similar to when Oni collects all his blood orbs, Myers won't instantly Tier up, or need to have his stalk 99'd. He will gain the option to Tier up after getting 10 SP. It could also result in some players maybe being able to make some Tier 1 stealth plays, since they don't have anything to lose from staying Tier 1 and going for a grab (now even getting the grab is a loss, since you can't tier up). Myers would remain almost stationary during this period, his Terror radius would increase from 0 to 16 and 16 to Map-Wide during this period, and I thought he could get some tracking for a little while as a result of Tiering up as well, but that isn't quite necessary.
Add-Ons
With a lot of these changes (and basically to try and prevent the Developers from creating more useless add-ons), there's a lot of potential to create new and unique add-ons:
Ultra Rare
Fragment Tuft of Hair
- Unlimited Tier 3 Duration
- Lose ability for Tier 3 down bonus duration
- Increase required SP requirements for Tier 3 by 10
Judith Tombstone
- Gain ability to Kill Survivors instantly in Tier 3
- Decrease m/s by 0.2 (4.4 m/s)
- Lose ability to increase m/s during Tier 3 (Maybe?)
- Increase required SP requirements for Tier 3 by 10
Ultra rares remain largely unchanged, minus losing the parts of his ability I thought of that would conflict with the add-on or make him potentially OP. I also felt for Tombstone the m/s decrease (currently 9%) is way too harsh, and should either not exist at all or only be 2.5 or 5%
Very Rare
Scratched Mirror
- See Survivors auras within 32m
- Cannot exit Tier 1
- Decreases m/s by 0.1
- Increase Tier 1 lunge by 150% (0.25s)
- Same BP bonus(es)
Vanity Mirror
- Downing Survivors in Tier 3 will show all other Survivors for 3s
Scratched Mirror isn't actually that bad, and does serve it's purpose pretty well (especially on indoor maps). I do think with Scratched Mirror he should be 107.5% so he can potentially play on other maps besides indoor maps. Since he's stuck in Tier 1, I also increased his base Tier 1 lunge to allow for more add-on combos with it, especially since Boyfriend's Memo essentially does nothing currently. Vanity Mirror on the other hand is horrible, and serves no purpose except to be used as a meme for Burger King Myers, so I gave it what would be an actually pretty useful extra tracking ability.
Tombstone Piece
- Increases Tier 3 m/s bonus by +0.2 m/s (5.0 m/s)
Hair Bow
- Increases Tier 3 down bonus by 10s (25s)
Currently I think it just doesn't make sense to have to add-ons that can mori survivors (especially since the Purple is actually better then the Pink currently), so I gave it a very strong buff related to one of my base kit change ideas (again the m/s increase can be tinkered with. +0.2 m/s might be useless, I only went with it to keep the theme that every Tier you increase by 0.2 m/s). For Hair Bow (and Hair Brush later in the add-on list) I changed it to relate to increase the down bonus I came up with, since 5 add-ons that increase Tier 3 duration is probably too many.
Rare
Lock of Hair
- Increase Tier 3 duration by 15s (75s)
- Decreases Tier 3 down bonus by 5s (10s)
Jewelry Box
- Decreases Tier Up duration by 40% (0.9s)
For Lock of Hair it'll still increase the duration, but as a drawback it will slightly decrease the bonus from downing survivors, and I thought Jewelry Box could do something pretty unique (similar to Top Knot and Toy Sword), rather then another Stalk speed increase.
J Myers Memorial
- Increases stalk rate by 24%
Judith Journal
- Increases stalk rate by 40% for only your Obsession
Mirror Shard
- After stalking a survivor for 3s, you see their aura for 3s
Left these add-ons relatively unchanged. I slightly changed the Memorial add-ons to give both Memorials more rounded numbers. I changed the Mirror Shard to work for all tiers, as a result of changing the effects of the 2 fragment add-ons (since they're both pointless).
Uncommon
Dead Rabbit
- Decreases Tier 2 Terror Radius by 12m
Memorial Flower
- Increases stalk rate by 12%
Jewelry
- Increases stalking m/s by 20%
Changed Dead Rabbit slightly to compensate for the map-wide Tier 3 terror radius (if you dislike that idea, leaving it unchanged should be fine. Consider giving it set values, or making the percents effected by perks). As mentioned earlier Memorial Flower was changed slightly because I liked these values better, and I left Jewelry unchanged since I actually don't know how much it increased the stalking m/s
Hairbrush
- Increases Tier 3 down bonus by 5s (20s)
Glass Fragment
- Increase Tier up aura tracking duration by 2s (5s)
Hairbrush is just a lesser version of Hair Bow, and Glass Fragment (as well as Reflective Fragment) increases the tracking duration from the Tier Up Phase.
Common
Reflective Fragment
- Increase Tier up aura tracking duration by 1s (4s)
Tacky Earrings
- Increase stalking m/s by 10%
Both these add-ons are just lesser versions of their counterparts.
Blond Hair
- Decrease Tier 3 duration by 20s
- Award hit score points for Tier 3 downs
- Award 50% extra BP for stalking
Boyfriend's Memo
- Increase vault speed in Tier 1 by 12.5% (1.4875s - Same as Tier 2)
The Developers are big fans of making brown meme add-ons (technically both Mirrors are the meme add-ons, but Scratched Mirror is actually solid), and since Boyfriend's Memo is really only used with Scratched Mirror, and I incorporated an increased Tier 1 lunge in the add-on, I figured give it a different cool, but useless effect.
Conclusion
Michael Myers is an awesome licensed character, who was actually the first licensed Killer DLC, and the 2nd DLC to be added, which has given him lots of time to become outdated, and outclassed. As such an intimidating, and scary character he deserves to see some buffs to try and make him higher tier, rather then mid tier (which is what most people seem to think he is), or even low tier (which is where I think he is in my opinion). If only a few of the many suggestions I made could be accepted I would say:
- Make his Tier 1 faster, preferably 110%
- Add the Tier Up Phase
- Give Tier 3 some extra amount of lethality
I don't honestly expect the Developers to look over this and say "Yeah let's do this!" but I would really like to see Myers get more then just an add-on rework as such an iconic killer who is sadly very under-powered. I hope anyone who read this enjoyed reading these suggestions. Feel free to leave comments and questions on any of my changes or any changes you would make. I hope the Developers can see this and give Myers the rework I believe he deserves.
Comments
Buffs i would give to Myers:
1. T1 110% movement speed, undetectable status effect. This would be unique because you could choose your playstyle, either stealthy or instadown.
2. Remove stalk limit.
3. T3 120% movement speed.
Buffs i would give to Myers:
1. T1 110% movement speed, undetectable status effect. This would be unique because you could choose your playstyle, either stealthy or instadown.
2. Remove stalk limit.
3. T3 120% movement speed.
Buffs i would give to Myers:
1. T1 110% movement speed, undetectable status effect. This would be unique because you could choose your playstyle, either stealthy or instadown.
2. Remove stalk limit.
3. T3 120% movement speed.
I've been saying for a while that EW1 is simply outdated and hinders micheal too hard. I was quite annoyed when on stream they said he was fine and had no plans for him.
Good players decimate him. He has no chase power
Having map wide terror radius or simply very huge terror radius is basically undetectable I would say, I like most of these changes tho.
These are my ideas:
If it was a tier list i'd put him mid c
Few things
1) I don't know if you mean speed or actual effeciency when when you say range decreases, but you already stalk slower from farther away although I don't know the exact values
2) You mentioned something about stalking multiple survivors and I think you may be confused. Stalking multiple survivors does not make you gain stalk faster, you just take the same amount of points but evenly divided between stalked individuals.
Sorry my forums page was glitched, and wouldn't update so I didn't see the comments:
@gibblywibblywoo Honestly couldn't have said it better. His Tier 1 is outdated, and just far too weak rn, and his Tier 3 is simply not threatening enough. I'm fine with having weaker killers (everyone shouldn't be high tier, that's fine), but do we want Michael Myers to be one of them?
@AhoyWolf Yeah map wide would be potentially too strong, and possibly annoying (personally Iri Button is kinda annoying), but I think it would be make him actually scary. It could be really faint if you're really far, so it wouldn't necessarily be like the lullabies, if anything it would just be really good for Infectious. But yeah I can understand if it's OP, just from a Survivors standpoint I think it would be super fun and scary (maybe make it an add-on then?)
@LapisInfernalis Lol I love that someone else put a long time into a hypothetical power rework of Myers. I like that we both agree a base kit brutal essentially on Tier 3 would be nice, with the addition of a base kit Enduring as well. I honestly considered this, but I just settled with the breaking speed, and those creative buff ideas I came up with. I also liked that you also thought of the "Tier Up Phase" similar to Oni powering up to for his Blood Fury. I'd really like to see this just as a quality of life, and as mentioned in the essay I wrote, lots of frustration about a Myers 1-tapping you in your first interaction would be gone as well since he'd be stopped in place momentarily. Finally, I definitely like your Boyfriend's Memo change better then mine, as a training wheels add-on for newer players. I honestly couldn't think of a change, so yours is much more creative. Very interesting.
@SkeletalElite 1) I was talking about the efficiency decrease. It's definitely something necessary, but with how much it decreases, it is way to slow at the max range (It takes a full minute to fully stalk from the furthest range, i.e. it's basically pointless to stalk from super far). 2) This is something I actually already knew. I do not know what you were referring too, but for stalk I specifically talked about decreasing the efficiency penalty as the distance gets longer, and that the max amount of Stalk Points (SP) in a s survivor should be increased, or just unlimited, hope that clarifies any confusion.
@terumisan I personally disagree. Unlike other notoriously bad Killers, they were always bad, while Myers has been middle of the road for a long time, because he's grown outdated over time. I wish I included that in my post, because that's crucial. As time has gone on his T1 phase has grown weaker and weaker, as players have gotten better and better. Even bad survivors can be quite efficient which is in the end, more important then chases. His snowball isn't really that good anymore either, due to a lack of mobility, and he has just become outclassed by better killers. He's a lot like old Bubba. He might actually be alright, but why play him when you can play one of the many who outclass him (in Bubba's case it was just Billy)? So even if he is a solid killer, he should still get some form of base kit buff, because so many killers are similar yet better, and he needs some sort of change to make him more unique then them.
The major issue with Myers is that he is too feast-or-famine. Either you snowball early with a strong Tier 3 multi-down, or you struggle to catch up for the rest of the match. All survivors have to do to deny him any leverage is stay spread out.
@Rydog Yeah he just starts out way too weak, and then his "surge" (Tier 3) just usually doesn't give him enough to make up for how bad his Tier 1 is. After the release of Plague, I started running Infectious on Myers and it USED to be quite strong and successful. It made him easily a high-mid killer. But more recently when I used it a month or two ago, it felt useless. Survivors have gotten better, more aware, or maybe SWFs have just gotten more common. Survivors just don't stay foolishly grouped up anymore. Oni has mobility to quickly surprise people, and down some one fast. Myers doesn't have the mobility to do that, hence why I suggested something like an infinite terror radius.
With how common Discordance is, and how efficient a lot of newer killers are for punishing/pressuring multiple survivors at once (Legion, Plague, Ghostface, Oni, Executioner, and now Twins), I feel like staying spread out is a more common safety tactic for sure.
Yeah he needs a buff, but perhaps not a big one.
I can say that after I saw a rise in Myers players using it I go out of my way to get out of the TR when hes in EW3. I treat him like Oni when that perk is in play.