Pyramid Head Buff Thread.
I know many will see the title and instantly scream that PH is already really strong, but the point of this is to make his power actually usable in the intended way and make him more fun to play as and against, instead of just constantly zoning people out of places.
So how would we go about fixing his power? First we must address the main flaws with it and work from there.
It's too easy to dodge and too telegraphed to actually hit anybody paying attention. There's an audio notification, an animation and a giant red rectangle saying "DON'T STEP ON ME :))))". This means that, even if you do play him well, you can still be punished by good survivors. Because the amount of time to react is absurdly long for a static attack. Then you enter a long animation lock whether you hit or miss, giving the survivor a lot of time to get away. His power if filled mostly with downsides when used outside of animation locks.
So what fixes would I make to him? There's two routes for this: A & B. But there are also changes that I would implement into both routes, which is: Torment applies on POTD, faster recovery on successful POTD hits, and full turning control (or at least better control overall), along with faster travel time for POTD.
Route A:
I feel like BHVR wanted him to be a prediction based killer, so his power should be changed only slightly to meet this and is probably one of the easier fixes.
POTD is now 12 meters in length, this ensures you have enough reach to properly hit through walls. POTD also now has a bit of a thicker hit box, being the whole rectangle and not just the center of it. PH now has a longer cool down on deactivating his trails. This is just so he has to actually use his power and remove the free zoning.
Route B:
PH only has the base range, but now his POTD is twice as fast in activation, with full control during the animation. This would make it a scary anti-loop ability that must be respected. All of the telegraphs such as the audio, animation and red rectangle still remain to give survivors a chance to react. The point of this route is to turn him into an aggressive anti-loop killer that must be respected.
I've been very critical of this chapter but that's only because I want it to do great. I love the Silent Hill franchise but PH blows ass in this game.
Comments
And thats the point really.
Survivors complain PH was “braindead easy” so he gets the nerf hammer, but something on their side is “braindead easy” and apparantly it’s fine and balanced
This just isnt a good comparison at all though. You cant compare faking M2's with the two because of movement speed alone. PH fakes at 4.4 while Huntress is super slowed down with the winding up/cancelling animations. When shes chasing you around a loop shes running at the same speed that Pyramid Head is doing his trail of torment. Juking a window is similar between the two but thats because its the counterplay to knowing youre not gonna make the vault safely, which is universal. Pyramid head also doesnt care about obstructions like Huntress has to. The comparison just wasnt it. Huntress can do a lot of damage in a short time but PH is a chase ender and top 3 at doing that.
Its oddly apparent that you dont play much survivor to associate their counterplay together, and thats fine. But its good to point out bias on these forums or else bad opinions run rampant
@SweatyTBagger
Huh? Pyramid Head fakes at 3.68. Huntress at 3.08... Which is only fair considering her hitbox isn't very forgiving AND she can also fake the direction in which she will throw.
Huntress can wind up right before you vault a pallet or a window. I don't understand how this is any different than what PH can do. The reason (as I've already stated) players get hit is because they want to loop around the pallet get greedy and use it as obstacle when it is already too late to do so.
My 4k hours on mainly survivor would like to say otherwise to that last statement. Don't presume to know my skill level when you yourself don't even know your own information regarding when Killers are slowed down from their normal speed.
Pyramid Head most definitely moves at 4.4 in his Rites bud. Theres educational DBD videos on youtube thatll explain to you his base stats. I can link if need be. Comparing the versatility in chase of 3.08 into 4.4 to 4.4 into 4.6 is just not doable lmao. Pyramid head can hit you without even seeing you either. Giving no time to react, unless youre part android. Not saying oh he just hits you through walls with ease but to compare Huntress who needs line of sight and minimal obstructions in between, and you need to aim it right.. Just brings me back to where I said its a trash comparison.
@SweatyTBagger
LOL I wasn't talking about walking speed, I was talking about charging speed.
No time to react? Dude his power has a wave-like effect meaning it isn't instant. The comparison I made was getting greedy at the pallet, which means that the survivor has already looped enough that Bloodlust procs. Survivors want to be able to throw the pallet down knowing they can get hit through it.
Pyramid Head can hit you without even seeing you? Are we playing the same game? Unless he has some kind of aura perk he has to guess/predict where a survivor's position is.
You are seriously losing me at Huntress needing a line of sight. You clearly haven't played against good Huntresses or ones that throw bus-size hitboxes at you, which is more common than you think.
I cant believe people are comparing Huntress and PH.
One can freely aim, has a lot of range, and at full charge those hatches move extremely fast. She can then also quickly combo into an M1
The other has very limited range, turns really badly, his attacks are telegraphed by the damn floor lighting up, and he cant do anything for a little while after.
Theres a reason Huntress has limitations whereas PH was given a little something to help him out.
@ClickyClicky
For context, read back a few comments ago.
I compared them in a very specific scenario, which was when a survivor is at a pallet and Huntress or PH are right behind. There is literally nothing you can do, except for maybe fake it or use an exhaustion perk.
Basically this:
I wasn't saying they were completely similar, but considering most of the PH complaints have been "Well I can't throw the pallet because I get hit either way".... So it's basically describing Huntress while she winds up her hatchet and can hit you through window or pallet?
That is the point I was trying to make.
Might wanna look into human reaction my friend. You cant "react" to the glow, you can read where hes gonna think you are but thats it. Even if you train yourself to the best of your abilities theres no way to do it consistently even though I know youre gonna argue against that being a PH yourself. Average human reaction for visual cues is a fourth of a second and PH takes .23 to fully unleash the attack from start to finish. The glow doesnt actually start for .08 so its more around .15 - .20 which is too fast for even average audio reactions. And no, Huntress hatchets cant hit through anything. You might be experiencing latency my guy
@APoipleTurtle
But all of the suggestions only makes him less viable ,and only increases quote on quote more fun for survivor's, so what he can apply ROJ on hits ,only for and if you get away to start the process all over again, then you completely take away his ability to be able to final judged,That's what makes him unique as a character.
Not only do you want to change his power but you claim he has a tunnel ticket only because he can bypass two perks which are currently the strongest perks in the game so don't act like you're doing Pyramid Head a favor it's, subtle but you're definitely making him unplayable and unfun for killer side.
This seems like it was all cultivated to take his ability to take awasy BT and Ds and his mini mori as you put it it's you're last hook,how you die doesn't matter and you need to grow up.
Once again, that was literally only one of many suggestions that I made (not even one of the bigger ideas) and it stemmed from the original reason BHVR nerfed the Cages in the first place: many PH players WERE using this portion of his ability to freely tunnel and remove players from the match early.
And frankly, it sounds like your complaints are entirely hedged on the notion that "These suggestions would prevent me from freely countering DS and BT or potentially getting an easy mori, which means I'll definitely be punished if I try to tunnel someone off the hook now". Sorry if that's not where your negativity is coming from, but that is very much what it sounds like.
Once again, the goal behind my brainstorming was to try and find ways that Torment and CoA could be made into more interesting and present game mechanics than they currently are (because these tools add virtually nothing interesting to PH or to gameplay in general). Cages progress the sacrifice, so why shouldn't they also be considered hook actions? Final Judgement is an extension of the Cage mechanic, so why shouldn't it be more heavily tied to them?
@APoipleTurtle
In the concept of let's say plagues power if you're sick ,the only way to heal is cleansing, torment has the same effect in away you can't be healed unless you're sent to a cage that's you're cleansing, Torment doesn't apply any effect only and if you're caught at the final hook can you be moried, so why do you want to change his power you still haven't answered that question.
Why would you put his power on a timer if it's a vital point to send someone to a cage to save you time how about if never hit anyone with POTD and you're left with no option you down some in the pallet and you can't send them to a cage then what you take the stun and then repeat the process over. Everything you wrote negates anything he can do to bypass survivor perks,I just don't get it its a concept built only to tear away his core abilities very manipulative he's fine how he is ,he just needs better add-on funny you keep mentioning taking away his ability to preform final judgement, who's more concerned about that me or you .
If he dropped the first pallet, he'd get hit but lucky because PH was bad. 2nd, if he vaulted, he'd be hit, didn't, still got hit.
Nope, no problems here, totally no issues with him
/s
Yeah they arent too different in that regard, although its actually easier for PH to miss since theres a slight delay to his attack and the hitbox is tiny, whereas hatchet hitboxss are huge and they travel almost instantly.
People compare him to huntress and say “well huntress cant m1 straight away so why can ph”, except they ignore the fact that hatchets are much, much, much, much more lethal than a POTD attack due to aiming, speed and distance.
I wanted to change Torment and the Cages simply because they basically don't do anything. You even said so yourself: "Torment doesn't apply any effect and if you're caught at the final hook you can be mori'd". Torment is even worse than Deep Wounds as an actual status effect when it could've been so much more.
If you've inflicted Torment on a survivor through PotD or RoJ (which remember, can be re-applied to increase their timer through my suggestion) and you STILL aren't downing that survivor within 60+ seconds, then you've been leading a poor chase and wasting your own time as killer.
The Torment Timer was to encourage and reward altruism from the survivor team (if they're constantly saving and healing each other, then they'll have a harder time trying to "Gen Rush" you). It's my opinion, but infinite-length status effects have no place in DbD unless one of the roles could arguably do something about it at any time (such as cleansing a totem or hooking a survivor). If PH only Torments one player, then they CANNOT become un-Tormented at any point until someone else is tormented, downed, and placed in a cage (which as we've already established, are a mediocre tool that a lot of PH players do not use).
And you're still on the wagon about "can't counter DS or BT anymore"? Also remember that sending a survivor to a cage does not involve picking them up. Caging a survivor ignores the context which activates DS. BT shouldn't be an issue either unless you were purposely trying to camp/tunnel someone in a Cage (since the cages pop up far across the map and all...)
And to be clear, I'm NOT removing his ability to perform Final Judgement. I'm simply asking that Pyramid Head have to use his Cages beforehand in order to earn it (which should be less of an issue if Torment can be applied through Punishment). It's primarily intended as a further incentive to use the cages rather than exclusively saving Torment for this mini-mori.
You mean with no counterplay? He needs buffs but also needs counterplay.
Seeing as they are reducing the recovery on m2s and lengthening the delay after cancelling it, I believe they should make his PotD linger for a duration after firing. Since it is hard to hit already, this would give an added utility in the form of area denial.
Say for example you are in the Thompson house at the top floor. You know a survivor is here, so you fire a PotD through the wall, denying entry to the other doorway leading to the stairs. You can now go through the doorway you fired from, forcing the survivor to drop down, or run through the PotD and get damaged. This fits with his theme of "map-manipulation" and gives him another tool for skillful plays rather than the 50/50 everyone dislikes.
If not this, then I hope they give some better compensation for removing the 50/50 (It was bs, but it was his main strength).
@BigTimeGamer
He got greedy with the second pallet against a killer who can hit you through walls?
Imagine. If he had just thrown that first pallet. He had 2.75 seconds to do so.
He could have dropped that first pallet instead of being greedy. That's how all the good survivors get hit, only when being greedy and overconfident. The 1 relies on the 4 to make mistakes balanced.
Also I like how you ignore how all the survivors have to do is wiggle to avoid POTD. Reducing its cooldown doesn't do a thing. The speed, hitbox and aiming could be buffed and maybe this change wouldn't be so bad but nope he's still going to have a very easy to avoid, fully telegraphed, limited range attack. The cooldown means nothing when you can spam them at survivors for 5 minutes and it's easy to avoid every single one.
This is why PH is dead. People that play PH understand he is dead. You clearly don't play him.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGlKlpjc4aMWatch the second half. Look how unviable POTD is as an attack. There's a reason people used him in a certain way, because that was his major strength. Even the hosts are talking about how it's not worth trying to do a POTD attack. A lesser cooldown won't change all the reasons why it is weak.
Also look at the timestamp 1:26:33, the shack play.
Yes Pyramidhead gets the hit. The 1 has the advantage vs the 4.
Now however with the delay the survivor will be able to drop the pallet in that situation and tbag from the other side. The 4 now have the advantage in the chase.
That's all this is about really. It was either the killer had the advantage in the chase or the survivors did, survivors petitioned hard enough and now they control the chase. The 1 once again relying on the 4 to make mistakes.
He's dead. Without any other changes to his power he is no longer a viable killer.
You don't see the big picture here. Silent Hill dlc sales have peaked and now they can nerf the killer to appease the majority of the playerbase. That's how BHVR rolls now.