how mmr should work to account for skill

zoozoom6

SURVIVOR SIDE:

survivor-killer interactions:

in chases the amount of time is added up in seconds at a 1:1 ratio to points with act of throwing down a pallet being worth negative 10 seconds/points and stunning a killer by throwing down a pallet being worth -5 points and getting a pallet stun that causes the killer to drop a survivor being worth 5 points.

sabotage: the killer missing an attack with you within 8 meters awards an additional 5 points. a flashlight blind is worth 3 points a flashlight save is worth 8 points.A sabotage is 2 points and a sabotage in which a killer drops or is forced to drop a survivor while the sabotage is active awards an additional 8 points

survivor-objective interactions:

every second spent on a generator is worth 1/4 of a point which doubles to 1/2 a point if the generator you spent the time on is completed(40 points for soloing a gen 19.9 points for a 99% that was never completed.) 5 points are awarded per totem break. 10 points for opening an exit gate. escaping is 50 points (through hatch or exit doors). searching a chest is 2 points.

survivor-survivor interactions:

safe unhook is 15 points. healing is 8 points. mending is 4 points. healing from dying is 10 points.

speed modifiers keep original time to point values eg. if you could do a gen at double speed for the full 80 seconds to cut it down to 40 seconds you would get the full 40 points( a generator's max point value is 40)

example: a meg brings a good tool box as her item she solos a generator in 60 secs with it instead of the 80 seconds (80*.5=40 points) she loops the killer for a total of 60 seconds and uses 3 pallets(60-15=45) she safe unhooks twice(15*2=30) heals 3 survivors including herself (8*3=24) and then escapes (50)

40+45+30+24+50=189

lets say double pip is 200 single is 130 and safety is 80

what do you think? should i make one for killer? comment below

sad_killer_main

MMR should take into account scoring, emblems, not kills or escapes.

zoozoom6

@[Deleted User] said:

Why would stunning a killer give you a negative score? Stunning a killer is generally considered a positive.

Also negative score just for using a pallet? Maybe if it had a timer between pallets. Like if you drop one pallet and then another within 35 seconds you get a negative score. If you drop one after no negative score. Some killers you just gotta drop the pallets early on or use more. Could see it being abused by someone who wants to derank and just runs around the map dropping every pallet they spot.

having long chases without throwing a pallet every couple seconds needs to be rewarded and short chases that burn through pallets for no reason need to be penalized i standby negative penalty for using pallets. but maybe -5 points is too harsh for a stun i put that down to encourage using pallets effectively. do you think it should be 0 and the extra chase time points is enough? what value would you give a pallet stun?

zoozoom6

@sad_killer_main said:

MMR should take into account scoring, emblems, not kills or escapes.

kills are an indication of skill if its not an offering mori and same for escapes provided they arent too heavily weighted

zoozoom6

@[Deleted User] said:

Maybe instead of calculating it as the game is going on, calculate it at the end. Compare everyone’s number of pallets thrown vs. their chase time. Then at the end you can award positives and negatives. Would also say add in negative points for not engaging the killer.

Also what about this scenario: the killer only chased one survivor the whole game from start to finish and they had to thrown more pallets. Should they be punished for needing to throw multiple pallets just because they’ve made a new best friend in the game who won’t leave them?

i thought i made it clear that was how it would work.

a survivor being chased the whole game how long you think that would take? 5 minutes? 5*60=300secs/ points how many pallets do you think they would throw down? 10? 10*10=100 and the end screen would be 200 because 300-100=200 the survivor double pips. sounds good. you dont think so?

sad_killer_main

@zoozoom6 said:

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1600561#Comment_1600561

kills are an indication of skill if its not an offering mori and same for escapes provided they arent too heavily weighted

Nope.

You can kill, and still be bad.

You can escape, and still be bad.

Emblems are the real display of skill, because they count all you can do in-game. If you perform all the tasks fine, with a neat performance, that means you are good.

zoozoom6

@4scoreand7skinsago said:

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/188893/how-mmr-should-work-to-account-for-skill

I mean this isn't really fundamentally different then how the emblem system works really, maybe a few more caveats but overall same basic principle. And as we all know the emblem system isn't a great determination of "skill" or even if you did well that match. Take for example in a match one of the survivors is very good at looping and its a decent map with some pretty nasty tile combos against an okay killer such as maybe wraith we'll say, that survivor could probably run that poor wraith for 5 gens and if that wraith isn't very good they just might. So you have 1 survivor who's run the killer the whole match and 3 gen jockeys, would they get the same amount of points the 3 gen jockeys didnt really do much except hold m1, however that doesn't necessarily mean that they are actually less skilled then the 1 survivor who looped the killer the whole game since they didnt really get a chance too show off that they could do that too regardless of if actually are able. How about another example, DBD is rife with rng lets say as a survivor you get sent to azaroths resting place and one side of the map is, through bad rng, baically one giant dead zone plus there's 4 gens unfortunately close too each other, your very likely to lose that game not because your actually worse then the killer but because they got lucky.

TL:DR-theres too much rng involved in dbds marches to ever properly quantify skill so trying to do so is a fool errand.

the fundamentals of the emblem system arent bad the execution is just flawed i made this to polish it not reinvent the wheel

sounds like a mismatch with a wraith that refuses to lose a chase

ideally the wraith would depip and all survivors except maybe the looper should single pip (the looper could double pip)

in regards to rng thats what the pip system is for right? so 1or 2 bad games cant derank you massively. also that sounds like map awareness and map awareness is part of skill dont lead the chase into a dead zone.

zoozoom6

@sad_killer_main said:

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1600575#Comment_1600575

Nope.

You can kill, and still be bad.

You can escape, and still be bad.

Emblems are the real display of skill, because they count all you can do in-game. If you perform all the tasks fine, with a neat performance, that means you are good.

kill and escapes arent perfect indications of who is good or bad but they can help as long as they are not weighted too heavily.

the current emblem system treat absolute blowouts without a chance of the other side winning as near ties because when its all time based it all looks the same its not a preformance of skill when a chase takes 10 minutes killers should be getting any iridecenats for stuff like that and they should be saftey pipping or even 1 pipping for downing and hooking everyone in 1 minute but this is how it works now its not a "real display of skill" its a collection of task that dont line up to how killers and survivors match up

zoozoom6

@4scoreand7skinsago said:

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1600604#Comment_1600604

The problem with yours and the current system is that if those survivors who did nothing do all pip even if they're worse then maybe even the baby wraith that doesn't know when to give up on a chase and yet they still pip from just holding m1they didnt really lesrn anything they just go carried plus every match there's a limited amount of everything you can do otherwise you'll get a farming killer and that will rocket you forward in MMR so thered have to be a limit on how many points you can make in every trial like our current system problem is that this favors long drawn out matches what if the killer 4ks in 3 or 4 minutes with a point system like this theyd probably depip to or at best safety pip even though they were clearly dominant in the martch.

by chance the killer will find the bad survivor once as they climb the leaderboard and more skilled killers will try all the survivors to probe for weak spots in the team. even so if the survivor in question still learns some skills like not missing skill checks and staying hidden. some of what your taling about is just the nature of the beast if the killer never interacts with that survivor its just better to give the survivor the benefit of the doubt and derank the wraith and pip the survivor.

it shouldn't favor drawn out matches it should actually look at skill which is what i tried to do here.

sulaiman

I doubt something like this will ever come, because its onesided and very singleminded.

You just take into account things you like/think should be done, ignoring other playstyles.

Cleansing totems, even hex totems, are obviously nothing that contributes to the team, since you dont award points for that.

Keeping the killer occupied for minutes trough juking (therefore you are not constantly in a chase with him) him or playing hide-and-seek at the gen you are working at seems worthless too, no matter how long you occupie the killer.

But why do i get more points if i run to the hook with killer in tow than when i go there unseen?`Why are protection hits or taking over a chase for an already injured survivor not contribuiting to skill? What about the guy who disctracts and lures the camping killer away? Not contribuiting enough?

No, don´t waste your time doing one for killer, because this isn´t even partly thought through.

zoozoom6

@sulaiman said:

I doubt something like this will ever come, because its onesided and very singleminded.

You just take into account things you like/think should be done, ignoring other playstyles.

Cleansing totems, even hex totems, are obviously nothing that contributes to the team, since you dont award points for that.

Keeping the killer occupied for minutes trough juking (therefore you are not constantly in a chase with him) him or playing hide-and-seek at the gen you are working at seems worthless too, no matter how long you occupie the killer.

But why do i get more points if i run to the hook with killer in tow than when i go there unseen?`Why are protection hits or taking over a chase for an already injured survivor not contribuiting to skill? What about the guy who disctracts and lures the camping killer away? Not contribuiting enough?

No, don´t waste your time doing one for killer, because this isn´t even partly thought through.

i did say i would award points for totem break check again.

i did award points for juking

i wasnt sure how to account for stealth so i left it blank for now

you make some good points there at the end even if you are pretty rude

KingFrost

Throwing the pallet early, though, is often the right move. Especially against certain killers. Like Doctor and Clown.

zoozoom6

@KingFrost said:

Throwing the pallet early, though, is often the right move. Especially against certain killers. Like Doctor and Clown.

and if this gets you an extra 5 seconds of chase time its canels out and if more than you get extra free score

zoozoom6

@sulaiman said:

I doubt something like this will ever come, because its onesided and very singleminded.

You just take into account things you like/think should be done, ignoring other playstyles.

Cleansing totems, even hex totems, are obviously nothing that contributes to the team, since you dont award points for that.

Keeping the killer occupied for minutes trough juking (therefore you are not constantly in a chase with him) him or playing hide-and-seek at the gen you are working at seems worthless too, no matter how long you occupie the killer.

But why do i get more points if i run to the hook with killer in tow than when i go there unseen?`Why are protection hits or taking over a chase for an already injured survivor not contribuiting to skill? What about the guy who disctracts and lures the camping killer away? Not contribuiting enough?

No, don´t waste your time doing one for killer, because this isn´t even partly thought through.

why would you think you would get get more points if you think you brought the killer to a hooked survivor? i didnt say that and it sounds like you're just farming your teammates and that should result in less points

sulaiman

because i play mostly solo survivor, and i often see this: Someone runs to the hook, get spotted by the killer, and still runs to the hook to unhook. Then it depends on the killer if he tunnels or not. But if not, its a save unhook, and he gets the points for the chase in addition for that, even though its a dumb move, while the player undetected by the killer gets less points overall.

I am sorry if i came of rude, but in this forum, a lot of survivors think there is only one way to play the game, and would like for force others to play just like that, and i am very tired of that.

zoozoom6

@sulaiman said:

because i play mostly solo survivor, and i often see this: Someone runs to the hook, get spotted by the killer, and still runs to the hook to unhook. Then it depends on the killer if he tunnels or not. But if not, its a save unhook, and he gets the points for the chase in addition for that, even though its a dumb move, while the player undetected by the killer gets less points overall.

I am sorry if i came of rude, but in this forum, a lot of survivors think there is only one way to play the game, and would like for force others to play just like that, and i am very tired of that.

that sounds like a good cost/benefit decision for the survivor(unhooker) and i think we way i have it set up for unhooks is fine and allows the survive top make the choice between attempting to lead the killer away for another survivor to take the unhook or gamble with trying for the unhook yourself.

i am willing to account or other play-styles to help refine this layout

it was big of you to apologize. thank you.