Camping and tunneling in dbd
In dbd, killers have multiple strategies: they can mindgame or they can just camp and tunnel. Camping and tunneling are really unfun and there is no good argument for defending them. If your argument is "gens" or "its still possible to escape as a tunneled dude" or "killers have to deal with unfair stuff, to", then you better find something else, since I am gonna destroy all of these arguments in this post.
First of all, I need to explain why they are so bad. Camping and tunneling someone pretty much removes any chance of that person escaping.
"Yes but people can do gens, and then its a 2 man escape, which is balanced since 2k is what the balance of this game should be around". Yea, you are right, camping is balanced because of that. But there is another question here: the fun factor. If a game is not fun, then balance does not matter, people will not play it. Here is why it is unfun: first, if you are one of the 2 camped or tunneled survivors, you have pretty much no chance at escaping, which does not feel good. If you are one of the 2 people doing gens, then what fun is this? You are skipping the most fun and interactive part of the game, which is getting chased, to do the boring task of holding m1. So none of the survivors have fun, and fun is more important than balance, since it is what makes people play a game.
Then, we have the "it is possible to escape even while being camped or tunneled". Yes, I agree, it is possible to escape such a situation. However, you are at a massive disadvantage if this is the case. It does not feel ok at all to lose because of a big disadvantage that you do not have any control on. Its like saying "4 man swf it is still possible to win".
Finally, we have the "yea but killers have to deal with unfair stuff, tho". I am gonna reapply your logic so that you can understand that it is not that good. Imagine this scenario: they are 2 countries at war. Country 1 kills innocent people in country 2, so country 2 justifies killing innocent people from country 1 by saying that country 2 did the same. Now, I get that there is a difference between playing unfairly in dbd and killing real people, but this is the exact same argument, just on a much smaller scale.
So hopefully people start realizing that camping and tunneling are not fun. Hopefully they are fixed soon enough.
Have a nice day.
Comments
At that point people who camp regularly want attention. Best you can do is ignore them...
I don't think your wrong the issue is that the devs have babied these camping/tunneling aspects since release.
The inverse would be infinites for survivors, which have now been removed. I mean REAL infinites too, not these pseudo-infinites some killers hold onto when they get owned.
I mean just look at your first response 'PS: Camping and tunneling are fine and fair. Go do gens.' Like you already explained that in your OP and yet this guy gets 30+ upvotes, lol this forum.......
Here's the long version of what I'm saying that might make the devs and therefore the attitude of people on these forums clear:
Since release, killer has been buffed, survivor nerfed. This is important to understand and through examples you’ll see why that has happened. It shows you why the game has had the trajectory it has and why we are now in our current quagmire.
It all started with the introduction of swf and the 2 escapes, 2 kills devs unit of metric. You don’t have to like the metric but it’s whats given the survivors all their nerfs and all the killers current buffs.
The devs failed to understand that people would want to play with friends in an online game (serious), what we got was ‘lobby wars’. Where survivors would join different lobbies looking for their friends and leave if they couldn’t find them. It was horrible trying to find games. Hence why we got swf, that completely unbalanced the game by creating coordinated survivors that could communicate. The devs have been nerfing survivor ever since and completely crippled solo survivor play.
Killers now are up around 70% kills due to the trajectory of the game and the devs metric system, unless you feel their metric system is bad, in which case they can undo all the changes I've just mentioned....
It also important to mention marketing and advertising. There’s nothing special about survivors, they are just reskins with some new perks that all play the same. THATS IT. EACH killer has its own unique play style and as you see from their advertising, its always new killers they promote. Survivors get a mention, but its never really the selling point.
DBD reddit, back in the day was all about poking fun at survivors and giving you the impression that every second game is SWF and heavily biased against killers. Which was a lie. OP SWF games are maybe one in 30 games with most swf games being friends who are just wanting to have fun and usually end up wiping. But there was no push back, the killer echo room there would down vote anything survivor sided.
That coupled with the points I mentioned previously meant that a lot of survivor mains left the game. Which is kind of obvious, I mean you understand the devs unit of metric sure, but you just watch nerf, after nerf, after nerf as it all gets taken away. Why would you stay for that? Its kind of miserable.
What has this created? In short. Entitlement. Killer mains know if they whine, they get what they want.
THIS is the environment the devs have created and what you see on the forums.
Bro just learn how to run the killer for 5 gens. As long as you get the right map tiles your good. Survivors are the power role still and if you cant get out while being tunneled then maybe you should just try and avoid being chased if you cant run em for very long.
That's why u need someone to get the unhook and someone to take a hit.
Their is literally a counter to almost everything in Dbd just learn the counters and learn your map tiles and learn how to run your jungle gyms and give yourself enough time to get to another loop or tile. Oh and always keep your camera in the killer now and then glance in front of you to see what you have to work with but once you get a good map sense you will be good. Just gotta put in the work to get better.
My favorite thing to do as a killer and this may sound completely crazy is to play exactly how I want to play. If I feel I need to camp a hook I'm going to. If I feel I need to tunnel im going to. (Most of the time I just slug them though) im so tired of people trying to tell me how to play. I use to try and spread hooks out but 90% of the time they teabagging me with their flashlights standing inside the exit gates dragging the match on. I learned awhile ago not to care at all about "the survivor handbook" I do what's fun for me and let them be toxic in messages.
lol that's stupid logic, you only have it because devs allow it.
By your rationale infinites should still be in the game, there's a bigger picture here.
It is a typo, otherwise how can i trust you understand the rest of what you just typed lol -.-
Nice wall of text then i guess.
i dont care i escape or no but if killer no give you play then where is fun ? im playing dbd almost 5 h every day, today i see red rank bb killers camp - tunnel surv without reason almost 17 match when i ask whu what they say one say bc gen rush others say bc perk one say i like be toxic, devs remove paliets - fix inviniti loop and what? killers every day worst, if devs remove paliets 100% killers still will cry about something other, this game every day going worst, is not fun play surv anumore
First of all, killers get punished for camping with emblems and they will likely depip or black pip. Also, you are acting extremely cocky in this post, because what's fun and what isn't is completely subjective, so you can defend that argument. I know tons of survivor mains who would rather be tunneled the entire game and then facecamped by a Bubba then have a boring game where you gen rush and everyone escapes with no killer interaction. I personally agree. I also found your comparison to be extremely dumb in paragraph 5. I could literally destroy this entire argument with, what's fun is subjective. Next.
The thing is, camping and tunneling being a problem isn't a survivor vs. killer issue. It's less fun for everybody. But you can't fix it by further limiting the only gameplay option that the killer has, as that's where the problem comes from in the first place. The obstacles in front of killers aren't challenging, they're frustrating.
Getting smacked in the head with a pallet - don't feel like I missed a challenge I feel frustrated. I can't block a pallet with a well timed button press, I can't dash through and beat the pallet coming down. I am helpless in that situation. All I can do is stand and wait for the survivor to decide to use it (a win for the survivor) or run foward and take the stun to force them to use it (a win for the survivor). The only way to turn this somewhat to my advantage is to somehow eat enough stuns early enough (without losing too many gens) that there aren't enough pallets for survivors to use later if they need them.
Running around a pile of trash trying to cut my big fat character model as close to the corners as I can - doesn't feel like a challenge it feels frustrating. I can't take an inside track, bloodlust only helps so much; I can't really do anything but wait for an LOS block or for the survivor to look away and reverse direction on which way I'm running. It's only a "mind" game for the survivor as they're the only ones with any real options (except Nurse/Spirit/Freddy).
Getting flashlight stunned when I'm stuck in an animation I can't control - doesn't feel like I made a mistake it feels frustrating. I can't do anything about it if I've already started the animation.
Getting bodyblocked trying to do anything - doesn't feel like I'm getting outskilled it's just frustrating. I can't do anything about it except what the survivors want me to do instead.
Having a chase extended by a "gotcha!" second chance perk - doesn't feel like a challenge to overcome it just feels frustrating. I've already done my thing, and they just serve as a take-backsie. I can't do anything to prevent them from triggering except to play around their trigger conditions entirely, if I know the survivor is running one. And normally the only way to know is to have it trigger once already.
All I can do, as killer, is show, chase, hook. I have no other options. And I am at the complete mercy of the survivors in being able to do that. Virtually all of the "counterplay" in this game is given to survivors with methods that are completely passive as far as potential response from the killer. Again, it should not be surprising that killers resort to camping or tunneling as those are the only two scenarios where they have any real control over anything, and the only scenarios where they can be proactive and force the survivors to respond (albeit in a limited way).
From a game design standpoint, you want each player to feel like they are in control over their approach to the objective. At the start of the match, every player should be on an equal footing in terms of playing proactively and determining their approach to trying to win. Killers in DbD start off on the back foot, and are forced to play almost entirely responsively to the decisionmaking of survivors. The survivors get first turn in the tic-tac-toe game every time, and killers just have to hope they're not paying attention or make a mistake.
This is not entitlement, this is objective criticism. When I play survivor, I know I have a multitude of options in front of me for how to deal with completing my objective in the macro sense. In the micro, I know I have a number of opportunities that are up to me to utilize well. That is healthy game design. As a killer, I know I have one thing and one thing only I can do about my objective in the macro sense - show, chase, hook. I might be able to make that easier by tunneling, camping, or slugging, depending on the survivors. In the micro, I know I have zero real options except to wait for survivors to miss an opportunity. When your macro options are only variable if you use "scummy" tactics and your micro options are virtually nonexistent, that is frustrating and unhealthy design.
The only killers that approach healthy design are the ones that let killers be somewhat proactive in the chase scenario (Nurse, Spirit, Freddy). And instead of complaining about tunneling/camping/slugging with them - they're OP cause pallet looping doesn't bother them as much so survivors can't use their favorite tactic to frustrate them.
TL;DR - Killers need more options to do something in a chase and more macro strategic opportunities to accomplish their objective. They're too one-dimensional from a gameplay perspective and that's why camping and tunneling are problems. The solution isn't to give survivors more help, it's to make killers more interesting to play.
i have to say that is a very well thought out explantion to why killers camp and tunnel and i was reading this and i was agreeing to every bit of it i think you truly have hit the nail in the head and hope alot of people see this post and have a understanding on why i would argue a vast majority of killers have been camping or tunneling and it has reevaulated my stance on being a player issue rather than a balance issue i think it now a bit of both as there will be players who are just going to camp and tunnel regardless of what devs do to make it less appealing but then the balance issues that has cause killers to resort to camping and tunneling is also a contribiting factor.
Exactly sometimes the frustration and stressful killer games is just too much, so facecamping is very relaxing. Even when I was rank 1 killer I took vacation sometimes by hooking the first survivor in the basement and just stand there doing nothing. It is relaxing and sometimes survivors fall for it and you have a very easy 4k game.