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New MMR will send fake red ranks back to R15

Babyyy_Boyy Babyyy_Boyy
in General Discussions

I play on Xbox and the red rank randoms I get sometimes are just complete crap, Won’t even attempt to loop shack or strong places like cow tree and will instantly throw the pallet while I uninjured. Not to mention half of the crap red ranks still run self-care, Urban evasion, premonition and no borrowed time. I could go a lot further on what these randoms do to piss off other people that are experienced but I don’t feel like typing a book. Please Devs, make this MMR new ranking system come in faster.

Tagged: Trusted

Comments

  • NuclearBurrito NuclearBurrito

    @Frankie said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1344049#Comment_1344049

    Again - whether or not I'd be "surprised" is of no consequence. With the amount of RNG DBD has *IT IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR AN AI ALGORITHM TO DETERMINE IF A PLAYER IS SKILLED*. Period. There is no two ways about it. It's literally impossible.

    All you need to do is measure success to decide the direction of the change and measure the MMR of the other players to decide the magnitude of the change. From there everything will work itself out over time.

    Good players are the players that succeed more than bad players. Worrying about the how's is an inappropriate use of a ranking system.

    So long as you are measuring success as your primary metric, sooner or later the most optimal players will be sorted to the top while least optimal players will be sorted to the bottom.

    The RNG doesn't matter because it applies to everyone meaning it will even out over several games.

    Abuse of overpowered mechanics only kinda matters, but is also a quality you would expect an optimal player to have. Aka: The best player uses the best build and uses it to maximum effectiveness.

    If a mechanic is so overpowered that anyone using it is practically getting a free win, then trying to solve that with the MMR is not the appropriate use of an MMR system. Such a problem is for the balance team to solve, not the matchmaking team.

  • LordGlint LordGlint

    @SpaceCoconut said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1344638#Comment_1344638

    I thought we weren't getting a leaderboard.

    Who knows what its gonna look like at this point.

  • johnmwarner johnmwarner

    @NuclearBurrito said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1344185#Comment_1344185

    All you need to do is measure success to decide the direction of the change and measure the MMR of the other players to decide the magnitude of the change. From there everything will work itself out over time.

    Good players are the players that succeed more than bad players. Worrying about the how's is an inappropriate use of a ranking system.

    So long as you are measuring success as your primary metric, sooner or later the most optimal players will be sorted to the top while least optimal players will be sorted to the bottom.

    The RNG doesn't matter because it applies to everyone meaning it will even out over several games.

    Abuse of overpowered mechanics only kinda matters, but is also a quality you would expect an optimal player to have. Aka: The best player uses the best build and uses it to maximum effectiveness.

    If a mechanic is so overpowered that anyone using it is practically getting a free win, then trying to solve that with the MMR is not the appropriate use of an MMR system. Such a problem is for the balance team to solve, not the matchmaking team.

    What is success, if you say escaping then 9/10 players who actually know about DBD will laugh. Even the Devs would laugh at you, I mean right now you can escape and black pip

  • NuclearBurrito NuclearBurrito

    @johnmwarner said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1344654#Comment_1344654

    What is success, if you say escaping then 9/10 players who actually know about DBD will laugh. Even the Devs would laugh at you, I mean right now you can escape and black pip

    And if the devs do laugh then the are explicity contradicting text they wrote in game.

    This game has a tutorial. Said tutorial spells out the win conditions. Survivors win if they escape. Killers win if they kill the Survivors. Simple as that.

    A ranking system that doesn't use the win conditions doesn't make the win condition the wrong win condition. All it means is that the ranking system is not using the win conditions to determine who does and does not rank up, which only means matchmaking won't be sorting by who is the most optimal player like it should. There is no deeper meaning and this isn't the only game to do that.

    Saying 9/10 DBD players will laugh at means just means that 9/10 DBD players didn't read the tutorial and came to an objectively wrong conclusion about the win conditions as a result.

  • Dead_by_Gadfly Dead_by_Gadfly

    Guys guys guys. The win condition is fun! Did you have fun?! Then you win!

  • NuclearBurrito NuclearBurrito

    @Dead_by_Gadfly said:

    Guys guys guys. The win condition is fun! Did you have fun?! Then you win!

    sigh

  • kaeru kaeru

    @SnakeSound222 said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1342783#Comment_1342783

    No, you'll only know your rank. Rank will also become meaningless and only exist for bragging rights and the PC achievements. Matchmaking will be determined by your hidden MMR.

    Oh, so it will be hidden. I was confused, thank you.

  • kaeru kaeru

    @Dead_by_Gadfly said:

    Guys guys guys. The win condition is fun! Did you have fun?! Then you win!

    Aaaawwww~ ❤️🧡💛

  • wojtech wojtech

    @Frankie said:

    The new MMR will literally do nothing of note.

    Why? Cause it's impossible for an AI algorithm to measure skill in Dead by Daylight. For a variety of reasons.

    I think AI could be pretty good, it could catch deviations from regular matches. But I wouldn't take those Archive challenges as a measure factor to train AI.

  • Dolls Dolls

    @twistedmonkey said:

    That depends.

    With SWF a true red ranked playing with friends may still be in your lobby If they use the highest rated mmr player.

    It may of course take an average of the group but that could have other consequences like in the past of a lower ranked mmr killer being matched with someone way above their level.

    If you play with friends the friend with the best rating should be the 'Score' that app lies. If you want to play with your friends of different skill level...that would have never hit up the same lobby of not for SWF. The penalty should be best survivor rating is all that counts.

  • bkillerc bkillerc

    My thoughts on the win condition of dbd

    @bkillerc said:

    long post...

    I believe I have figured out exactly what the ranking system in dead by daylight represents, and subsequently the win condition.

    Rank represents how good you are at scoring blood points overall. That is it, nothing more.

    Emblems are meant to limit how many points in each category, so you can’t simple farm one category. 

    If you score in the expected range of points for your rank, you safety pip and make no progress.

    If you do better than expected, you pip up and progress towards a higher rank. The reverse is true with lower points.

    As you rank up, you have to do better in more categories to continue progressing. On top of this you have to do better in more categories consistently: every game on average. Red rank must average a gold emblem (3 points) in all categories to pip up, where as green rank only requires a 2.5 emblem point average to do the same.

    This establishes a win condition of maximising points... you increase rank when maximising points. Increasing rank/piping means you won. 

    Whether you survive or die (though a factor in points), whether you kill or let escape (though again a factor in points), this is only somewhat relevant. In and of itself these do not mean you won.

    This is why you tend to rank down if you kill everyone too fast or escape too fast. You didn’t maximise points, therefore u lost. 

    In general (I believe) there are more red rank players since losing rank is more difficult than gaining. This is assuming you play the game as normal and do at least “a little of everything.”

    Sorry if this was obvious, but I see a lot of “rank doesn’t mean anything” and while it’s true in the sense it doesn’t directly translate to chase skill or game sense etc, it IS in fact your “skill” at getting blood points across all categories. I would say it can and does somewhat correlate with skill as rank comes with time and skill does the same (to a point).

    i should add rank is more closely tied to killer skill based on the way their points correlate with basic killer skill (in general) vs survivor rank.


  • twistedmonkey twistedmonkey

    @Dolls said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1343027#Comment_1343027

    If you play with friends the friend with the best rating should be the 'Score' that app lies. If you want to play with your friends of different skill level...that would have never hit up the same lobby of not for SWF. The penalty should be best survivor rating is all that counts.

    Thats what I was saying. We don't have the info to truly know how it will work but I believe it should also be off the highest rated player to make it fairer for the killer.

    This means in the OP's scenario they will still get those players who shouldn't be in the high ranked brackets due to swf.

  • Babyyy_Boyy Babyyy_Boyy

    @thesuicidefox said:

    I'm on Xbox too and I get some of the most potato red ranks ever. Killers too.

    Last night my friend and I had a game on Game against a Wraith with anti-heal build. These two couldn't last 20 seconds in a chase and threw every pallet on the map. Then the Laurie follows me half the game to heal me through Sloppy and Thana when we needed to do gens.

    Can't wait for this MMR to kick in. My only concern is matchmaking times, which are already too long, becoming longer because it has to match based on stricter criteria. I feel like I already play at the highest level, I know players better than me on Xbox but it's not a huge pool and of course they all aren't on at the same time.

    Exactly. I know what’s like and it’s so frustrating to get teammates like that.

  • Orionbash Orionbash

    Great. I'm gonna be against sweaty Freddy mains all day, every day. Its all anyone plays at true Rank 1.

  • Hoodied Hoodied

    New MMR can also make fake grey ranks too.

  • The_Bootie_Gorgon The_Bootie_Gorgon

    @Frankie said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1344619#Comment_1344619

    None of those involve an AI without human input. HUMANS can do anything. HUMANS can judge things. Your point is invalid. As for technical knowledge, I create 3D models for a living here in Montreal; for video games on a contract basis. I feel like I probably have more knowledge of this process than you do. Better go make a video on it.

    In all honesty - even the DEVS know it's impossible for it to be accurate and based on skill. Hence why they literally said they are prioritizing "fairness" last in the MMR, with latency being the first determining factor; but okay.

    The devs make the game and they make the rules. They can make an MMR system based on whatever they define as winning/scoring.

    As a simple example, they could make a MMR system based on escapes or kills...hell they could make a rating system on how many time a survivor tea bags in a match...or a killer hits ppl on the hook per match.

    We can launch people into space, but coming up with a MMR system for dbd is impossible...

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