An interesting thought on Borrowed Time
Instead of the perk being run by the rescuer, what if the perk was made to be run by the rescued survivor?
So you would run the perk to prevent yourself from getting farmed ever by bad teammates and not just have to hope they are running it.
Also has the benefit of now survivors would be more inclined to make better saves since they aren't sure if you have it.
Trying to think of a downside here but I'm just seeing positives.
Thoughts?
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Pretty much an easy solution to make the perk healthier but nobody before could've come to this idea xD
What did that ever have to do with survivors hook rushing?? Stop being so petty all the time.
Don't see why not. Probably kind of irrelevant though as Slippery Meat is one of the perks they said they are reworking currently, so its effect is probably going to change a lot.
So you're essentially saying have it like the perk was in its previous iteration where it protected both but was a 1 time use?
Tbh this is part of why I hate the emblem system for survivors. You shouldn't be penalized necessarily because you can't reach an unhook. At the very least you should get points for working toward your objective while someone else goes for the unhook because most times when more than one survivor is going to the hook, that's gonna end badly for survivors. Not that from the killer side I see that as a bad thing, it should be a heavy risk... But I don't think it's fair to penalize playing smart against going for a bad risk.
No it still only protects the actual person on the hook when using it be that yourself or another player 😉.
I'm aware, but honestly I think it's only going to be buffed. Hell, they may give it a passive BT effect for survivors being camped. The whole point of the perk is to have a strong chance if self unhook to throw momentum, give a solo survivor who survived to the end and played well a final chance at escape, and relieve the pressure from teammates for having to go for unsafe saves.
It's only weak right now because against camping it's ineffective and it doesn't even guaruntee you'll get off. If I'm trying to think like these devs, I'm putting my money in the rework addressing that
And with a 1 time use? That seems fair
I don't think tunneling is the only way to win as killer...sometimes, with some killers, it is but usually you'll do just fine spreading pressure as long as you don't let the survivors hook rush safely.
Who knows what they'll do lol.
Although I'm not in favor of any new "second chance" perks being put into the game. We already have lots of issues because of the ones we do currently have.
I prefer perks that change gameplay and open up new play styles and synergies.
I don't either. What I mean by that is you have to tunnel some again the best survivor groups. Playing "fair" against the best survivors without using one of the top tier killers you will lose. I'm not refering to the vast majority of average games where you can still win playing "fair".
I do as well, but let's be honest, we have to put in our dev hats and think what they are more likely to do lol.
That being said, with a perk like this solo q can be brought up a bit, therefore all that's left to do is buff and rebalance killers and their perks because once SWF and SOLO are level, they can't ignore killer sided issues anymore in favor of rank 20 solos.
I like your idea, anyway. Good suggestion 👍
So you think it's unfair that the best survivors will win unless you're using the best killers? Can't say I disagree but also can't say I ever thought of it like that. I thought the solution would be fixing maps and killers until all killers perform well but apparently survivors are just straight up OP because the best of them can beat the average killer. I was wrong all along 😂
"I thought the solution would be fixing maps and killers until all killers perform well but apparently survivors are just straight up OP because the best of them can beat the average killer."
Those are basically the same thing. If maps and killers were better balanced then all the killers would be more balanced and the person with more skill would actually be winning. "Camping/tunneling" would also then be unnecessary for any killer.
Yes I know I was making a sarcastic statement that mirrors the mindset of too many people on these forums. Sorry it wasn't obvious, apparently you're quite accustomed to seeing it used unironically.
If it can gain more stacks so use for how the killer plays i.e camping I think so. It's meant to be used for that specific scenario after all and not for farming others.
Yeah sorry, it's typically not used on these forums ironically. I usually assume serious intent.
I have no clue how they would ever program that into the perk.
Regardless of how the killers playing though, multiple uses would seem really busted.
If maps were fixed and a lot of the weak killers improved then I suppose that could be fine. Just basing this on the games current state though.
Yes, I do. I hover around rank 4-5 right now since I don't find playing bully simulator very fun. Most games are a complete slaughter with 3-4 kills depending on if the last one finds hatch before me. I never get DS'd nor do I have to deal with BT.
But hey, feel free to ignore me and complain about easily avoidable perks because you want to play like a jerk. The perks do exist because of killers' behavior after all.
Why should the killer be allowed to camp just because your BT ran out? I think a good compromise would be that it starts out with no tokens but gains a token each time the killer lurks near the hook(24/30m?) for 20 seconds with no other survivors around. Then it can punish camping like it's supposed to. Of course, to not punish killers who are just looking around, you can have the first 10 seconds after someone being hooked not give progress to BT, nor will BT activate during that phase.
Pros: Keeps BT strong and allows it to always punish campers
Cons: By campers I mean only killers with a TR :(
Maybe BT could also be changed to activate within a set range instead of TR, but would that be too much?
As I said it could be done via the minus emblem idea with a system like say like stake out. The reason for this is the killer only loses them if there are no survivors within a set range so it shouldnt be too hard to do.
It wont be the exact same by showing the perk gaining a stack like stake out so actually telling you a killer is camping. This only happens when a stack itself is gained.
So it will only have multiple uses to help with camping itself which I think is fine as it is what the perk is designed to heelp with. If the killer doesnt camp it will only ever be a one time deal.
Was rank 3 before I memed in the basement with bubba for a few hours. I normally play Legion, Doc(before and after rework), and Wraith. I never deal with BT. Occasionally a survivor with DS does something stupid and ends up eating dirt for a little while, but I don't ever go after them after the unhook. I always run BBQ and go for someone else after a hook. I won't go back when they get unhooked unless it's down to just two survivors.
I still usually get 3-4 kills. Playing killer isn't as hard as the poor martyrs on this forum want you to believe. Yeah, maybe one in ten games you face that elite squad that plays 100% optimal and all escape. Yeah sorry, but I'm not going to play that hard for what amounts to a normally easy, relaxed game. I'd rather have one bad game every now and then than just crap all over every survivor I face. Most survivors are potatoes.
I don't see how I could frame my reasoning on SW any better, we just aren't going to agree here.
If that's the case, we can agree to disagree.
Through, I did said it can be used for efficiency, it depends on the situation.
For BT, waiting out the Endurance buff is pretty unrealistic. They are getting to another loop. I'd hardly consider that a reasonable counter, especially at end game.
It depends, some survivors are very bold when they are invincible. I have many games where the BT survivor tried to protect the savior and I just waited out their Endurance effect. You will be surprised how many survivors do this and get themselves downed. 😁
I just want a perk designed to be fair against survivors that are competent, not pray the survivors are dumb and not paying attention lol.
Your version makes it less effective against camping by making it a single use unlike before, it can be used multiple times. This contradicts your points of saying it will punish camping and tunneling because once the killer see BT, they know you can't have it no more. Before, killers often don't know who made the unhook, so they can't guarantee if they should ignore you or not.
Another thing, your idea simply makes the perk extremely weak at punishing camping and very strong in other aspects.
For example: With 30 seconds, survivors don't have to be cautious about their
timer, they can bomb hooks and tank hits within a much larger domain.Are you getting a strange feeling of Déjà vu? Decisive Strike, with a 60 timer, promotes the exact same thing and now, you're going to make an additional perk that adds on to that situation.
Therefore, to make BT do its job at preventing yourself from getting tunneled. I propose this as a final solution and hopefully, we can agree on some terms:
Borrowed Time
You emit hope to yourself during a dire situation.
When unhooked in the killer's Terror Radius, gain the Endurance status effect for 6/8/10 seconds.
"This contradicts your points of saying it will punish camping and tunneling because once the killer see BT, they know you can't have it no more. Before, killers often don't know who made the unhook, so they can't guarantee if they should ignore you or not."
It doesn't. BT is not supposed to completely eliminate tunneling from the game entirely for you. Its purpose is to prevent it once. Even if you already had it protect you once and now he knows it's gone that doesn't matter because it already served its purpose to protect you from it once.
"Another thing, your idea simply makes the perk extremely weak at punishing camping and very strong in other aspects.
For example: With 30 seconds, survivors don't have to be cautious about their
timer, they can bomb hooks and tank hits within a much larger domain."A good reason it should probably stay 15 seconds. That said, the situation you are describing is no different than the current BT we have now..except its current iteration is still unlimited uses. If anything your description here just better illustrates how still way too overpowered our current BT is.
"Borrowed Time
You emit hope to yourself during a dire situation.
When unhooked in the killer's Terror Radius, gain the Endurance status effect for 6/8/10 seconds."
Once one hit is blocked the perk deactivates. That would be balanced and add counter play. One blocked hit is very significant. Current second chance perks have way too much power.
Like he said, that just encourages tunneling, just like current DS would if its stun was short enough to eat without much consequence.
Having a tunnel attempt blocked, which allows the survivors a free recovery from the killers current pressure doesn't encourage tunneling.
I don't like the idea of not being able to know if someone has b time.
Maybe if you are in a 15 meter radius the little icon of buffs would show up to inform you they have b time (like we'll make it,Ace in the hole,up the ante ect)
Hmm on Otz's recent Legion video after he got hit by DS his chat screamed at him to tunnel the survivor who DS'd him. Is this not the typical response?
Because he's playing Legion...
Even if he did choose to tunnel him after that, he already ate an entire DS...if they are still losing after that they misplayed a lot.
Why wouldn't you tunnel a survivor you know doesn't have DS?
One, because I like all the players to have a good time.
Two, because against a decent survivor it is costing you the game in most cases unless the team misplays a lot because of time wasted.
Third, because they could also still be running BT for the save.
Recently unhooked survivors are vulnerable targets without DS and after a small 15 second wait. I'd rather chase them than the healthy survivor that hasn't been hooked yet 30m ahead of me.
15 seconds is more than enough time to get to another loop.
The time you waste tunneling that same guy multiple times will have all the gens completed if the survivors are competent. Game lost.
What about a rework like kindred
If you are unhooking a survivor they have 15 second protection
If you are being unhooked you have 15 seconds protection.
Then give it a 30 second cool down so that the person you hook bombed cant just turn around and hook bomb you too
No BT has been buffed already. This suggestion would be run by every player and uncounterable by killers. At least run right now BT can be counter by Freddy insidious etc.
It's already an extremely strong and overused perk.
I guess it's map dependent, some maps have safe tiles in convenient locations, some don't.
That would just be a straight up buff to the perk. It is already one of the best perks in the game. It needs to be toned down, not up.
This change however isn't one affecting its power either way though, it is simply a quality of life change to give survivors more control over themselves being farmed by teammates.
For how strong the perk is it should deactivate after a hit has been blocked as then its accomplished its purpose. If this was added we could also add your stipulation of it working in either direction.
A 30 second cooldown is meaningless. It would have to be at least several minutes long if that was going to do anything significant.
i wouldnt dislike that.
it would certainly help againt these players that just run up to your hook with BT and unhook you right in the killers face, as they now dont have any guarantee that you actually get protected by BT and they might risk their BPs / emblems.
still, imo BT shouldnt give you a safe unhook. if they get hit, no matter if BT was active or not the unhooker should pay the penalities.
otherwise its, as ive mentioned, just the hookfarm perk #1.
Most the games issues can come down to maps yeah.
Making the safe rescue points based on if they get hit after being rescued and not going down would stop a lot of the farming I agree. Good idea.
"It's already an extremely strong and overused perk."
I agree.
That's why it should also deactivate after it blocks 1 hit.
How is it not a worse DS then? Will this coincide a DS nerf?
Because you can't counter it by slugging.
Also saying it's just a worse DS isn't saying much since DS is already way too strong itself.
DS does need a nerf as well. We could improve its reliability in tunnel countering as well though in return.
SW is a worse DS :D
SW is an efficiency perk, not a tunnel counter.
I think we can all agree that perks that promote fun gameplay should be OP and extremely hard to counter.
Survivors have perks to prevent tunneling and camping; they also have perks that reward safe unhooks.
Killers have perks to punish genrushing and reward them for leaving the hook.
Borrowed Time is one of those perks that promote fun gameplay, which means it should be more powerful than the average perk. I understand this perk won't prevent you from dying if the killer really wants you dead because survivors will always lose in duel with the killer, that's fair.
However, I think Borrowed Time should at the very least, make it very difficult for the killer to successfully tunnel you.
Since you said:
Once one hit is blocked the perk deactivates.
I officially agree with you now.
I think the perk should always active when you're unhooked in the killer's Terror Radius, but once you soak a hit, the perk deactivates. 😁
"I think we can all agree that perks that promote fun gameplay should be OP and extremely hard to counter."
Getting forced to play in a certain way no matter the circumstance in which causes you to lose the game is not fun for both sides. If the game was better balanced to make it not necessary in certain circumstances then sure, that would be great. However that's not a game balance we currently reside in.
"Killers have perks to punish genrushing and reward them for leaving the hook."
The perks they have to counter gen rushing are minimal and quite weak at best. They do nothing to actually solve the problem. Meanwhile the perks to counter survivor gripes like camping/tunneling do indeed completely hard counter it entirely and are literally game swinging in strength. There is a double standard here.
Not to mention the survivor ones are basically passive, where as all the killer ones require you too make skilled plays to see value from them.
"Borrowed Time is one of those perks that promote fun gameplay, which means it should be more powerful than the average perk. I understand this perk won't prevent you from dying if the killer really wants you dead because survivors will always lose in duel with the killer, that's fair."
It only promotes fun gameplay for survivors, not killers. It destroys all your pressure leading to gen rush and getting bodyblocked when using the BT aggressively instead of defensively.
"I think the perk should always active when you're unhooked in the killer's Terror Radius, but once you soak a hit, the perk deactivates. 😁"
I'd be fine with the perk if that was the change.
Thanks for the feedback. My thought was primarily that there are so few meta perks that are strictly based on altruism and so many that are about saving your own ass that I thought it should still have that selfless effect, but agree that it would be nice if it applied to yourself getting unhooked by a greedy teammate. The 30 second cool down being to prevent your own BT saving you if the guy you just unhooked decides to linger through their DW to get you off hook.
Honestly i imagine perk effects are probably the hardest things in the game to balance, so kudos to the devs for thinking through all of these corners