One frustrating part of Ruin left out while changing it

antgnstea

When I read the notes, I expected to see the most obvious frustrating part of Ruin.. Spawn location. How survivors just spawn on it and ruin gets cleansed in the first 30 seconds of the game. But all the reasoning behind the change listed for beginner survivors. I agree it wasn't useful red rank killers or purple ones who faces red rank teams all the time. Because of hearing it cleansed before I got to check even 3 gen, or good survivors cleansing it out of curtsy when they are leaving, I thought it wasn't a popular choice in red ranks. Is that why killer frustration wasn't included when you made these changes?

Don't judge before try. Yes but I know I won't properly test it out in PTB, due to lack of players and long que times.

And before trying it, as a player who put some time in the game, I can tell, this new end game pressure perk will have no power when it's already cleansed in the first half of the trial. If I run NOED against red ranked survivors, it does not even activate, so what makes you think ruin will stand till 2 or 1 gen been left?

Also you identify Ruin as a high reward for little effort risk perk. How that changed with the rework exactly? Still my only main effort would be keeping Ruin from cleansing, or no benefit at all.

If this was a basekit change for killers, or a perk that doesn't involve totems, I could agree the pressure it may cause, but right now I don't think you changed this perk with killers in mind at all.

TL:DR How about killer frustration part of ruin? How we supposed to apply pressure at the end of the game when your totem cleansed before get there?

antgnstea

@Fibijean said:

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/979437#Comment_979437

I'm still glad I waited to test it for myself, but having done so... I honestly think it doesn't matter if it's a hex or not. From my experience - which could be inaccurate, since although I am a long-time DBD player with a pretty good grasp of how game design works, I wouldn't call myself an expert by any means - Ruin is a terrible perk either way. The only time it could possibly be good is on a high-mobility killer on a small map - arguably the situation where a slowdown perk is least needed.

Half the games I played on the PTB, Ruin did last all game, but not because the survivors were negligent or because it was in a really well-hidden spot, just because they/we didn't bother to look for it. It made so little difference that there was no point wasting time trying to find the totem. Also, it made about as much difference in the late game as it did in the early game - that is, barely any. So, at least from my experience, the late-game power thing makes sense in theory but isn't actually the reality.

I also feel that the new Ruin is not only a bad perk, but discourages healthy gameplay. It strongly encourages survivors to hug generators really closely until they're finished, which conversely causes generators to pop even faster, and also punishes survivors for being altruistic or making what would otherwise be smart plays, such as prioritising the rescue of a teammate over finishing a half-completed generator.

Overall, my opinion from what I've personally seen of it is that right now it's a practically useless perk on its own, whose only saving grace is the level of synergy it has with a few other, much better perks, and which actively promotes unfun and unhealthy gameplay tactics on the part of survivors. Not too impressed overall.

I couldn't have described all the aspects better myself.

DetailedDetriment

The problem with totem locations is that they are preset and a hex's life time depends on it. New totem locations would almost require map redesigns

antgnstea

@DetailedDetriment said:

The problem with totem locations is that they are preset and a hex's life time depends on it. New totem locations would almost require map redesigns

wasn't suggesting that they should change all of them at once. They should change them over time to get more out of hex perks in general. What I am saying is the new ruin shouldn't be tied to hex totems anymore. It could be something else but not totems.

DetailedDetriment

@antgnstea said:

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/979548#Comment_979548

wasn't suggesting that they should change all of them at once. They should change them over time to get more out of hex perks in general. What I am saying is the new ruin shouldn't be tied to hex totems anymore. It could be something else but not totems.

It should honestly be base kit.

terumisan

@Sonzaishinai said:

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/973568#Comment_973568

As a non hex it would be absurdly strong

Ruin as a nonhex, surveilance, distressing and whatever as doc

Find 3-4 gens that spawn close

Wait for survivors to do the other gens

Laugh in Herman while you instantly see which gen is being worked on and by the time they get chased away and go back on it it's regressed

Wait untill survivors fall asleep irl

Win

The effect is way to strong for a nonhex perk

It bassicly adds 50% to all time survivors waste and saves you the time for kicking gens

It's still garbage as a non hex since in that 3 gen strat you still have to chase someone off gens maybe even 2 if they double up a gen is going to pop regardless since you have to get those other 2 off the other gens

Sonzaishinai

@terumisan said:

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/974594#Comment_974594

It's still garbage as a non hex since in that 3 gen strat you still have to chase someone off gens maybe even 2 if they double up a gen is going to pop regardless since you have to get those other 2 off the other gens

Yeah true, after playing with it, i realise i way overvalued it

I still need more matches with it to be sure but i think i wouldn't run it even if it wasn't a hex perk

terumisan

@Sonzaishinai said:

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/979620#Comment_979620

Yeah true, after playing with it, i realise i way overvalued it

I still need more matches with it to be sure but i think i wouldn't run it even if it wasn't a hex perk

I'm honestly wondering if it's on par or worse than surge because both are terrible

Now I want a buff to surge that it's map wide

Snapshot

@Fibijean said:

That comment made about Ruin in the late game was, I think, widely misinterpreted. I think the point being made was not that the new Ruin is meant to be a late game perk, but that if it weren't a hex perk, it would be too strong in the late game. Which is true - the problem right now is it's in an awkward position where it's too weak to be a hex, but too strong not to be.

Exactly. And this is an already solved problem. There are two specific mechanics already in the game which solve these kinds of problems and are used with other perks, if you think for just a second, you will find a solution... 🤦

antgnstea

@terumisan said:

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/974594#Comment_974594

It's still garbage as a non hex since in that 3 gen strat you still have to chase someone off gens maybe even 2 if they double up a gen is going to pop regardless since you have to get those other 2 off the other gens

Tho only advantage you get in that situation is not having to force to kick gens. The moment they are off the gen, it starts regressing on its own with a slightly higher rate.

Endstille

@antgnstea said:

When I read the notes, I expected to see the most obvious frustrating part of Ruin.. Spawn location. How survivors just spawn on it and ruin gets cleansed in the first 30 seconds of the game. But all the reasoning behind the change listed for beginner survivors. I agree it wasn't useful red rank killers or purple ones who faces red rank teams all the time. Because of hearing it cleansed before I got to check even 3 gen, or good survivors cleansing it out of curtsy when they are leaving, I thought it wasn't a popular choice in red ranks. Is that why killer frustration wasn't included when you made these changes?

Don't judge before try. Yes but I know I won't properly test it out in PTB, due to lack of players and long que times.

And before trying it, as a player who put some time in the game, I can tell, this new end game pressure perk will have no power when it's already cleansed in the first half of the trial. If I run NOED against red ranked survivors, it does not even activate, so what makes you think ruin will stand till 2 or 1 gen been left?

Also you identify Ruin as a high reward for little effort risk perk. How that changed with the rework exactly? Still my only main effort would be keeping Ruin from cleansing, or no benefit at all.

If this was a basekit change for killers, or a perk that doesn't involve totems, I could agree the pressure it may cause, but right now I don't think you changed this perk with killers in mind at all.

TL:DR How about killer frustration part of ruin? How we supposed to apply pressure at the end of the game when your totem cleansed before get there?

Simple you make the perk so bad that nobody will equip it, than nobody complains about spawn locations. Because they couldn't get that ######### done in years.

terumisan

@antgnstea said:

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/979620#Comment_979620

Tho only advantage you get in that situation is not having to force to kick gens. The moment they are off the gen, it starts regressing on its own with a slightly higher rate.

It doesn't matter since 1 ruin regression isn't all that great either since its not a 1 to 1 regression rate 2 its a hex totem 3 they'll just hop straight back on the gen since it barely lost progress