The most important Spirit change didn't happen
She needs a tell for when she activates her power.
That's honestly the biggest issue with her, lack of feedback.
You gave her a vaulting animation for that very reason, but not for her power?
Can any dev clarify why? @Peanits ?
Adding this here because people are not getting it.
I am NOT asking for a tell of when she's phasing. That would be stupid.
I am asking for a tell of when she activates her power. Similar to how hag crouches, wraith bings his bong and nurse lifts her arm. Just start phasing and stop if you wanna fake it
Comments
I can't tell you exactly when she is phasing AND THAT IS THE POINT! You aren't supposed to know. I never said I could BTW, just said that I know how to beat the stand still trick because I don't try to guess which she is doing.
But that doesn't mean there is no counter play. There is. You just have to assume she is doing both at once. Do that and you will see the valid options open up.
And it is what you are asking for because a tell that says "I'm activating my power" and one that says "I am using my power" are the same thing at the end of the day... giving you information you shouldn't have.
Again, vaulting =/= her power. Her POWER is meant to be confusing. Her vaulting doesn't need to be.
I didn't ask since the comment wasn't aimed necessary at you specifically but in general which is why you see spirit and nurse getting nerfs but since you tagged me what is your opinion
@Weck
nope it would not, it would just make it easier for survivors to play against her, she got already nerfed in terms of swing range with the current dev update. Thats actually already a hard nerf.
Then what was the point of the friend bit? Waste my time?
Same thing, give the actual counter play. Not this shrodinger crap.
It is not. Because you can fake it. You can bing bong the bell without going invisible, you can roar without ambushing etc.
A difference with no distiction
I ask this because I want the game to be fair. Not because I'm thinking in a 1v1v3 scenario instead of a 1v4.
OP must be joking.
If not then maybe he needs to understand it's not a 1v1 game. One survivor isn't an equal to a killer.
Hard nerf? You call this hard?
Legion and nurse are asking if they are a joke to you
Let's see how she performs first before taking further nerfs like nurse, or do you want another nurse?
I am not.
I am aware it's a 1v4. Please pay attetion to what I am actually saying
LOL clearly you don't understand.
I told you to have a friend play Spirit in KYF and tell you when she is phasing to prove that giving her a tell about her power completely guts her. You know exactly when she is using it and therefore can always apply the optimal counter play. If you DO NOT know, then you can't always pick the optimal counter play, sometimes you have to go for something less optimal but more safe. If you want to go for an optimal counter play you need to take a risk that you guessed right.
So what about Pig/Wraith fake out? Literally all you would do is tap the button. Wow yea, sure making her work for it by tapping a button. Really makes no difference other than to give away she is using her power when she actually commits to using it.
And you keep calling it "Schrodinger crap" but it works pretty consistently so maybe actually try it before you bash it.
Tbf, I wanna know why this wasn't a thing, not asking to implement it alongside eveything else.
Because devs ran out of idea about nurse's add-ons in the first place, and they added the cooldown just to make add-ons
At least this is what I believe
@Weck
I never compared those nerfs lol idk where you got that from.
I think the nerfs are well-balanced, as long as they don't try to tag anything else onto her at release. The last thing Spirit needs is basekit nerfs. (collision was stupid anyway)
You are the one not getting it.
Let me put it this way.
When spirit decides to phase a few things happen.
-She stops
-she holds the power button, making a progress bar appear.
-when the power bar completes, she goes into phase.
-she releases the power button to stop phasing
Now, pay attention to what I am NOT asking for.
-She stops
-she holds the power button, making a progress bar appear.
-when the power bar completes, she goes into phase.
-A TELL HAPPENS TELLING OTHER PLAYERS SHE'S INTO THIS STATE.
-she releases the power button to stop phasing
Now, this is what I actually am asking for.
-She stops
-she holds the power button, making a progress bar appear.
-A TELL HAPPENS, TELLING THOSE LOOKING AT HER SHE WENT INTO THIS STATE
-when the power bar completes, she goes into phase.
-she releases the power button to stop phasing
Notice the difference, and what that implies.
But that makes her mind games completely useless
How am I supposed to pretend I'm phase walking if you know when I use my power?
Not nurses... this thread
If you don't compare it to something, how would you know it's a "hard" nerf?
Absolutely, nothing should be added or removed withouy ptb feedback
Please read the comment above yours
Oh, then sorry I misunderstood your posts
No worries ^^
Whether or not you think she needs a tell is one thing, but the glowing shards works only on some skins, if you are very close, and you spend time looking directly at her without moving or focusing on anything else except looking at her. It is pretty subtle and impractical midchase/loop, and it's honestly not worth it to even end up looking for almost any time.
Also, her hair "popping" happens very very rarely, and I don't think it's even intended, and I don't even think it's totally intentional, so I wouldn't consider it reliable
Now whether or not you think she NEEDS a reliable tell is a different story, but these just aren't that reliable. Personally I like the changes they made, and I'm excited to see how they play out in game.
To be honest to know when have is phasing isn't much at all because unless you are ridiculously smart and can work out how close or far away she is from you then okay. Other then that, knowing when she is phasing doesn't really allow the counter player of what suriviors want. I want an accurate and confirm way of countering her, a way in which doesn't involve luck or guessing because obviously from what the devs said during the patch note, they don't want the game to be a guessing instead of skill. What exactly do you think would accomplish by being able to know when she is phasing?
I agree with you. But you seem to be replying to someone saying she has or doesnt need tells...
The shards don't glow. People looked at the game code, it's not there.
@Weck
Still don't agree with it, it's part of spirit power to never know if she is using her power or not
There is no difference.
Telling someone she activates her power and telling someone she is phasing are basically the same thing. The only difference is that she can tap the button to "fake it" but how is this ANY different than just standing still to fake it? It's just faking it with extra steps.
All you do with this change is give away when she is actually committing to her power, which defeats the entire purpose of it and is exactly the problem I'm talking about.
The big difference between this and Pig/Wraith faking it is that you know immediately that it was a fake, allowing you to react to the fact it was a fake. You don't with Spirit, so the end result will be the same. Is she phasing or not? Literally. No. Difference.
I am not asking to know when she is phasing. Just when she activates her power. Basically, a tell her bar is charging (the thing that appears when you hold the power button)
It might be a side effect of something else then in which case even that wouldn't be intentional and wouldn't be reliable, but it doesn't really change what I'm saying
Although I haven't seen anyone say that personally
Thats ok. :) but I disagree.
Because if you fake it and someone runs, you are gonna have to activate it again, giving a second tell so the survivor knows you faked before. Open your mind a bit, you are too closed in.
Say what? That the shards glowing aren't in the code?
Int3ract has a video about spirit where he says that.
I play a ton of spirit, and I'd be totally on board with this change.
The problem is, when you see a spirit suddenly stop moving, you can assume that she is phasing, but you don't know. A small hint at the beginning that a skilled player would notice (which most of the people on here are, right?) that she actually phased would help with the counterplay, since the ideal move in this situation would be to double back at a walking pace, or sharp left or right into hiding. If she managed to you trick you, then you're SOL. Its a crapshoot though due to the lack of feedback.
I think its subtle queues like this tell that actually turn spirit from the powerhouse "hard" killer to one the actual hard killer that takes some skill. Activating your power would now require YOU the killer to actually plan a good time to do when the survivor may not be able to notice the tell.
I believe that most of us hate loops. They're annoying for the killer, and survivor alike. I believe that this game should be more about stealth and mind gaming, which spirit can certainly do as a killer, but the survivors don't really have the option.
I'm fine with the spirit changes, and I'd be fine with this. Spirit is easy-mode. She's who I go to after a few bad rounds as survivor or another killer and I just want to wreck some people. If there is any killer that should be labeled Easy right now its her
Nurse mains tried to give feedback.
Did it do anything?
Actually, the barely noticeable thing about her phase has mindgame potential. Let me explain..
Spirit doesn't know if you can recognize those changes (like glowing shards etc.). So every time you notice this, you can do the counterplay to her, and she doesn't know you know she is phasing. So she need to decide whether you know or you don't know when she is phasing. Because if she decide wrongly, she will mindgame herself and give you free escape
If you give a big telltale about her phasing, she can phase but not moving at all to trick you because she knows you know she is phasing. If she is good, she can predict your movement too because the indication.
So i think no indication is better for mindgame
If they run then it doesn't matter if you faked it or not.
I'm not sure about that, because many people says she has slight indication.
Kinda agree. Those changes are nice QoL changes, but they don't change what people despise about the Spirit, which is the total lack of feedback of her power, plus the fact that without Iron Will mindgames/jukes are almost impossible against a good Spirit.
Still, these are good changes and I would gladly see how she plays out with them alone before changing something else.
I know. I'm asking why you are asking this and how it would make a different in the game? By knowing that she is phasing, what exactly are you getting from it because you won't know how close or far away she is.
@Weck
I compare it with the spirit what we have right now. The change reduces her lunge for the half of it.
Did you know her power is phasing?
I know... shocking.
So even tho everyone has told the community these are the power activation tells. Unlike most killers shes a living mind game learn to deal with it not every killer literally needs to be made with instructions maybe it's time to learn. Survivors got the pre-ptb nerf be happy. She will probably get adjustments again after the ptb.
Activation tells:
Honestly the Vaulting part confused me the most because her red stain would always pop to the other side the moment the Spirit hit the button for vaulting. Was it really hard for people to figure that out?
Poor choice of words on my part.
Instead of run, think "leave in a way to confuse spirit whilr in phase"
Yeah, they say that. Have yet to see it.
But... I am asking for feedback with this...
The tell I want would only come into effect if you can see the spirit.
To avoid she "mindgaming" by standing still. Now she has to do something to mindgame
With the addons most people would agree give her a pretty bs lunge. Yes.
1) are you sure? Can you show it?
2) myth. It is not in the code.
3) isn't this just 1 again?
Pretty sure those tells are all just bugs that may not even be related
But it inherently isn't fair since its a 4v1 with the more survivors being alive the less time the killer has
@Weck
But... I am asking for feedback with this...
And I gave mine. If it wasn't clear it's "I agree but first let's see how these changes play out, first"
@Weck
Ye thats what i am talking about.
1 + 3: yes I could actually if you watch any gameplay of a Spirit with regular hair you can see it happen. I believe someone showed off timestamps of it happening in the spirit counter thread.
2: if it's not in the code then why do I see it commonly when I watch a Spirit phase?
3: combined with 1 because you make sense. I just leave them different because being able to watch the animation reset and the hair stand up are different things to watch out for.
Whether it's a bug or not is a different question but you can in fact see her shards glow when she phases, it is not a myth. I tested it myself a few days ago. However skins can cover it and it does not seem to work on certain maps.
Her shards DO NOT glow. This has been tested by myself personally and other people who play the game. This is a myth and people need to stop spreading it.
Her shards do glow it is very subtle and hard to see but they do glow, I would do more testing if I were you because it seems on certain maps it does not work well. I would love to record it for you but I am at work now, I will see if I can get a video when I get off
Here this post has picture and video proof. Unless they changed it in the last week or two it should still be the same
https://steamcommunity.com/app/381210/discussions/0/1642043267241071356/