ZombieGirlORV
ZombieGirlORV
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- ZombieGirlORV
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@Traslogan said:
The one dude who advocated for removing SWF was shot down even by me. We said it immensely changes the balance and stops it being fun for a killer. Literally SWF players have come in and agreed when the other SWF players aren't flaming.
I have agreed too, on many points. I just don't think it should be taken out. I think the KWF idea is the best one I've read so far. Also I'm half asleep so if this makes no sense I apologize. :)
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@Traslogan said:
I already said previously I check for SWF because it's so common. I didn't say "I see a high rank and thus I believe it's SWF".
Once again just misinterpreting the entire thread.
Hmm. I missed that. In that case yeah, that also needs to be fixed, maybe by putting them in with a killer who's the same rank as their highest member. ^.^
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@Traslogan said:
It's true, I see a lot of single rank-5 survivors carrying rank 10-15 SWF friends as a Rank 10-12 killer.
Today is another day of pure SWF, literally can't get a random for 3 minutes and then full 4-man-SWF appears every time. There's nothing left of DBD but this on whatever servers my lobby is going to.
dude, I've been playing solo all week and I've been being put into games with killers 18-20 when I'm lvl 12. It's not always SWF, something is broken in the ranking system in means of putting you in a group with people your lvl.
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@Traslogan said:
Whilst the killer does need incentive not to facecamp, remember they take solid pip loss from being in the general vicinity of hooked survivors (Which means even just going to attack someone in a chase can cause a loss of the pip over a surprisingly short time).
And SWF generally just d/c if they aren't going to rank up because they know they can just play more SWF and get it back when they rig even more games. They're more concerned with denying the killer the ability to play.
And yet killers still face camp. You must have a really negative outlook on people to think the Survivors are all horrible like that. Survivors don't care about ruining anyone's day. Though there are some cheaters in the world who don't care about others feelings. The majority of survivors aren't like that. They just want to be good. I can think of nothing more awesome than building a team to compete in Dead By Daylight regularly. All survivors want is to have fun playing, just like the killers, only they have different and opposing objectives. There's no point in playing a game if you're not having fun, and what's more fun than gaming with friends? You seriously want to take the 'Multi-Player' out of this Multi Player game? They already took away mics, and if they take away the ability to game with our friends it would defeat the purpose for many survivors. Lot's of them made their friend in Dead by Daylight. Take that away and they'll go find another game and everyone in the game will suffer for it. Rather than taking away an awesome aspect of the game because it's fun for one person and can 'Possibly' be difficult for another, why not just add in another awesome element like 'Kill with your friend' Multiple killers, and a few more survivors. Groups of four killers and 10 survivors? 12? Larger maps. You don't need to ruin a game for someone else because they might 'possibly' have an advantage. I say 'possibly' because I play worse almost every time I play survive with friends. Being in a group might help you communicate better, but it can also be distracting. It doesn't always mean you play better. Half the time I play way worse when I'm in a group, which is why I usually play solo. Also, Wouldn't you rather be able to hone your skills by going up against better players rather than trying to make other players worse so you can beat them with ease?
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@Schwifty said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/474914#Comment_474914
@ZombieGirlORV KWF -
- 4 Killers
- 16 Survivors
- 4x as many hooks, 4 times as many generators, chests and exit gates
- Zero hatches!
- 4x the map size!
You had me at 4 killers XD.
OMG, that would be EPIC! XD
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@Traslogan said:
2 kills won't stop a derank when SWF communicate to find Hex Ruin and then get all 5 gens and they have 3 insta-medkits every time and every single person has MoM, Dead Hard and Decisive Strike and often Adrenaline. The killer needs to literally let everyone go time and time again, let them all heal up again and again, get hit after hit after hit on every person, and then somehow still not let all gens pop and get 2-3 kills (Where everyone is hooked at least twice) to prevent derank. Somehow you are meant to do this against communicating-SWF who all have Dead Hard, Adrenaline, MoM, and Decisive Strike, and they bring as many instaheal medkits as possible and usually the designated obsession has a well-equipped flashlight for guaranteed stunning every pallet just to waste as much time as possible whilst they tell their friends what gens are safe to do.
And Lemon, the game is like an incomplete rock-paper-scissors:
Killer beats Solo Survivor, comms-SWF beats killer, nothing beats comms-SWF.
Pretty sure the points for the multi hooks were an attempt to dissuade killers from camping to make the game more fun for survivors. Being the first survivor found, usually within the first 20 seconds of the game, basically means you haven't had a lot of time to start a gen, or earn any points. This has more to do with luck than skill. It's happened to me dozens of times, sometimes multiple games in a row, and it can be frustrating. If your this first person getting caught and the killer face camps you, you're most likely losing a pip, and you didn't even get to play really. The points are an incentive to send killers after the other survivors, making it more about the skill of hunting them down then standing there and face camping them. Giving the first hooked survivor a chance to re-join the game and earn points. Also most survivors know that when a killer is face camping like that, all they need to do is forget rescuing them and work on gens for an easy escape. The hooked survivors job is literally to live for as long as possible, to keep the killer from going after everyone else while they work on gens. What would you suggest as a replacement incentive to keep killers from Face Camping survivors like this and ruining the game for them? After all the ratio is 4 to 1, and the game is in desperate need of more survivors to lower lobby wait times. But it does have to be fun for everyone. What's a good way to re-balance it to keep it fun on both sides? ( Serious question, just realized this is the internet and there is not tone of voice. :) I really want to know. ^.^
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@shalo said:
At the very least make sure SWF groups are matched with a Killer of the same rank as the highest SWF member.
Agreed, I'm not even playing with friends and all of yesterday I was matched with lvl 18-20's. I felt so bad at the end when I saw. Usually the matches are fair, but when this happens with friend groups the killers usually don't stand a chance. Course it also kills the survivors game because they start getting lazy and when they're matched with someone their level they get creamed. XD
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@Traslogan said:
Another day, another time where I hit rank 12 and the game becomes literally 100% SWF, teams that gaurantee you derank no matter what you do.
Seriously, someone give me another reason other than "git gud" for dealing with SWF. You can't beat the god damn communication advantage. Devs are clearly just ignoring the issue, and I can honestly say 99% of my games are SWF now, so whatever stats are being touted are pure BS.
I bet it's just gonna be permanently ignored just like the steam suggestions board they put up is though.
I say there should be a kill with your friends as well. That way the option is there for both players. Then SWF can go up against KWF and it'll be even an even playing field. ^.^
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@Kind_Lemon said:
Not every SWF is gamebreaking, but when a whole portion of the game devoted to misinformation and obstacles to teamwork and cooperation can be circumnavigated, it's not the best thing for the health and heart of the original game. It becomes something else:
Rage and ridicule simulator.
...But that's only one possibility.
Didn't the original have voice chat too? They took that out because of toxicity.
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Because of Tryhard Killers with Noed+Franklins+BBQ+Pink Mori's.On Top of that the Gate spawns are mostly too close (in my games) to each other and because you "Teammate's" farms you.
I usually play Solo, and I die a LOT, like a LOT. But I blame that on my lack of skills, or the fact that the killers were just that awesome. I try to think positive. They had to be good if they killed me right?
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I've been wondering this myself. It should be a 4 to 1 ratio, but because of the difference in wait times for lobbies I decided to look it up, but exact numbers are difficult to find.
The first bit of information I found is from October 2018 in a steam forum.(https://steamcommunity.com/app/381210/discussions/0/1733216261954714867/)Someone commented that there is an "Over abundance of killers." but that isn't really an estimate and there's no source for where their numbers come from.
The next place I went was here, where I looked at the discussions along the side bar. Currently there are 4.5K discussions in the killers chat room and only 3.8k in the survivors. This should also give us a good idea of how many are playing them as mains, but I'm betting not everyone who plays visits the web sight. That aside it does give us a good indication of who does visit, and who talks in the chat rooms. Looking at the numbers it's easy to see that killers are way more likely to participate in the forums rather than survivors. Which means, if they're looking for information regarding what the community wants, it's most likely skewed in the killers favor. As the balance of the game dictates a 4 to 1 ratio, this is really bad for the game. Even if they did a vote to see what people wanted the numbers would be likely to come out skewed in the killers favor, because their votes would overpower the killers. That's a problem that probably needs looking into.
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Give them a time-out timer for 30 minutes each time. Make it stack so after 10 DC's in less than a week, it doubles to an hour.
DC-ing isn't always something that can be helped. I used to live in a place with horrible internet and it happened to me all the time, it can be just as frustrating to the person who DC's. On the other hand, people should be allowed to DC if they have real life emergencies, if they're being trolled, or if the person they're playing with are abusing the game in some way. I don't like doing it myself, but I have done it in the past, either for unavoidable problems, or other reasons. It's just a game. You should be allowed to walk away from it. I get that it's frustrating and inconvenient for others but for people who have kids, it's a necessity.
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@TrueKn1ghtmar3 said:
Lol anyone up for a KWF? I made a post about a possible new play mode where two killers could play together before you judge the idea search for collision
o.o What does KWF mean? OH Oh! Killer with Friends? ^.^ I would totally play that, but as a survivor. :)
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We all know SWF is completely overriding the balance of the game.
XD I always play worse with my friends, because I always want to protect them and end up making stupid mistakes. With Randoms I'm less attached, and for some reason that helps me play better. ^.^ I've also been in games when they accused us of being in groups when we weren't. It's just how well they play or not. Personally I think killers should be allowed to play in groups too. XD That would be so awesome, way better than the end game.
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@liquidlight said:
End Game is rough on solo survivors or survivors trying to rescue people. And if you're chased as last survivor then kiss that win goodbye no matter how well you did: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYW7xMyqHok&t=1s
Thank you for the video share, That's another thing I've been seeing a lot of in games. Killers will just camp and wait because they know you don't have enough time to go to the other gate, and they know they can't catch you if they try to chase you. They shouldn't get points just because they camp a gate for long enough. They're basically getting rewarded for trolling.
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@PeenutsButt3r said:
Why not, if survivors find it first, during a chase don't get the killer to that area, and jump in the hatch when available. If you don't find it, just go camp the exit gate and wait for the killer to close it, EZ counter play.
"EGC currently offers no counter play" - ok so not closing the hatch just like before the update and when there's a survivor sitting on it, killer can do nothing instead of waiting for that toxic survivor hold the game hostage.
That sounds like a totally different game. Not much fun either. This was a game of run and hide before your killed, not try to be the first to open a gate. o.O
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@CreeRoyalty said:
End game is yet another way to help killer mains. It's trash for survivors. All the disconnects and they still don't get it. The only way to play this game is as a killer. It's easy and until they stop boosting the killers it's the best way to get blood points. Just play as killer.
In the words of Arya Stark, "That's not me."
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@Someissues said:
Another game, survivors refused to leave until timer is almost over
This could probably be easily avoided by taking away the extra points survivors get for a 'narrow escape'. It's why most survivors wait at the exit gate for killers.
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@ReikoMori said:
The game can't last forever just because you keep making saves for people who keep getting caught out. You have to make choices. Hard choices with big consequences. You're asking to be given more chances when you've had multiple chances to leave. Some times you gotta let teammates die. That's me telling you that from a survivor standpoint. You can not keep saving people. You're not all going to live and yes the game is weighted closer to killer with egc. If you want to be heroic to the very end that is fine, but the game doesn't have to reward you for that. People have played the game long before this feature existed and will long after this feature becomes pointless. You've come to the wrong game if you have a need to be a hero. It's survival horror, you just have to survive. Just you. If others survive, that's great and if you helped even better, but you need to ensure your own survival most of all. This killer isn't going to stop doing what their supposed to do which is being the horror part.
You're right, the game can't last forever, we only get two hooks. Going back to save a person is difficult enough at the end. It's already a hard choice, that's why you get extra points for it. I'm not asking them to 'give more chances' I'm suggesting they don't take away the few chances we already had. The other part of this that is one sided is the points from the entity kills go to the killer, but they didn't earn those. In a lot of the forums I've seen killers call survivors 'entitled' for not liking the end game for logical reasons, but then they turn around and take points they didn't earn, a bit hypocritical. People have played for a long time through a lot of changes, the thing is each change they made was balanced in some way, there's always a counter to any alterations they make, but there isn't for this. It's completely one sided. The game is a 4 to 1 ratio to begin with. Meaning you want four times as many survivors as killers or the killers wait times in lobby are going to be LONG. It's one of the biggest complaints out of killers. This doesn't incentivice people to play as survivor, it does just the opposite. I'm betting we see a drop in survivors playing, and I'm betting killers get longer wait times as a result. Sadly I feel this add on might be the beginning of the end for my second favorite game. :'( Oh, that might seem a bit dramatic so I should explain. It's the 70/30 rule of psychology, basically it means people who lose at a game more than 30% of the time will no longer want to play it. Oh, but if they win too much they'll stop wanting to play also...It's a delicate balance. :)
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@TrueKn1ghtmar3 said:
Lol sounds like another entitled survivor post if you've been playing for years you should have the ability to avoid, deter, and rescue with ease, as for getting lost in Gideon honestly thought that never happened anymore as surv or killer I can traverse gideon beyond easy and Im sure 9999/10000 players can do as well. End game gives the best defense against swf either you can come pick your friend up and get downed yourself and wait til last 25% of timer to get BW and everyone die or leave and deny the killer your death simple.
^.^ I have been playing for years, but CTS slowed down my abilities a bit, so my skills have actually gotten worse the longer I've played. You're really just restating parts of what I've already said, so thank's for actually reading it rather than commenting without even bothering. :)
I do have a horrible sense of direction. I'm not sure why, but it as bad as it is now, it only further diminishes when I'm running for my life from a crazed killer after grabbing someone off a hook/trying to distract the killer so they can escape. XD But props to you for being awesome. ^.^ Keep it up!
Still, that doesn't address any of the real problems that are evident with this change. We need more survivors to play DBD right? Otherwise, with the 4 to 1 ratio, we get those really long wait times in lobby for the killers. Wait times that are constantly complained about by the killers, so we know this is a big deal for them too. So, how does this incentivise people to play as the survivor to lower the killers wait times in lobby?
It doesn't.
There is no counter balance to the end game like there usually is for the alterations they put in. It was already difficult to go back and save teammates once the gates were open, that's why we got extra points for it, but making this makes it near impossible, and actually takes away from the fun for survivors, making the game feel anti-climactic.
The other problem I have with it is the fact that the killer shouldn't get points for survivors killed by the entity, they didn't earn them, and they aren't entitled to those points. It's rewarding killers for being unskilled. If they didn't catch the survivor themselves, they don't deserve those points.
But that's just my opinion. Thank you for yours. :)
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@ReikoMori said:
The game can't last forever just because you keep making saves for people who keep getting caught out. You have to make choices. Hard choices with big consequences. You're asking to be given more chances when you've had multiple chances to leave. Some times you gotta let teammates die. That's me telling you that from a survivor standpoint. You can not keep saving people. You're not all going to live and yes the game is weighted closer to killer with egc. If you want to be heroic to the very end that is fine, but the game doesn't have to reward you for that. People have played the game long before this feature existed and will long after this feature becomes pointless. You've come to the wrong game if you have a need to be a hero. It's survival horror, you just have to survive. Just you. If others survive, that's great and if you helped even better, but you need to ensure your own survival most of all. This killer isn't going to stop doing what their supposed to do which is being the horror part.
The game can't last forever, we only get the 2 hooks, after that we're gone. So that's not forever. Another person I play survivor with was saying, "All the killers have to do is catch and hook us. This End Game is just a reward for killers who are bad at hooking people. If we die by it, the killer shouldn't get the points. Before it would be a close game if they had hooked everyone once or twice and there were the last hooks they needed, but a killer doesn't have to be good to get points anymore, they can play through the whole game, never hook anyone, and then still manage to get all four people killed with the End Game event, just by finding the hatch, closing it, and camping gates. It's just a way to reward killers with no skills." -and this resonated a lot with what I've seen. In a lot of the lobbies I've seen people calling survivors who don't like the change 'entitled' but it just seems hypocritical to me. What's more 'entitled' than getting free points at the end of the game for not catching people? Honestly do we need more killers or survivors in this game? What's the main reasons killers have such long wait times? It's the 4 to 1 ratio of people needed in lobby. Lack of survivors is a problem, and will be a bigger one if they don't figure out how to re-balance the game. Killers at this point have the ability to see us almost all the time. They have the invisibility, and one hit KO, and all that is pretty okay because they always find a way to counter balance it. Yes the Dr. can drive you crazy, but not if you're in a locker. Sure Freddy can slow down your movements, but it takes him seven seconds to put you in a dream state. Why do most people play survivor? I started playing it for the adrenaline rush, I was a huge coward at first, but eventually I found out that the real fun is in saving your teammates and learning the skills to run away and survive in the process. Something I'm awful at, but love so much I practice it anyway. This takes away from that. It makes the game less fun. Today I got home and thought 'I want to go play Dead by Daylight.' and that thought was quickly followed by 'But they changed it, so I can't anymore.' This change is so large that it makes it feel like a completely different game. I'll keep playing in hopes that they find a way to re-balance it, and make it work. But I was concerned enough about the situation to post my opinion on the internet. ^.^ I really hope they find a way to make it work or get rid of it completely. Dead by Daylight-the original- will be missed...it almost took the place of L4D as my favorite game...and that is something special.
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@ReikoMori said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/470557#Comment_470557
EGC wouldn't even exist if not for the fact that survivors spent over two years doing some of the most heinous time wasting. 60+ minute overrun in games because people refuse to leave , 45 min hatch standoffs because the hatch mechanic was half baked to begin with. Now you have to simply do what was expected of the players and get the game over with in a timely manner. I'm not going to feel too bad that survivors are getting to waste 4mins for however long it takes people to get bored of the entity animation. The game is extremely easy to win and survival rates according the stats provided by devs is currently 41% for solo survivors and 49% for 4man swf. I don't really care much for the stats, but since they are here and you've mentioned survival rate. The game is far from impossible to win, but it now has gotten tougher because people can't depend on an escape method that can't really be challenged.
You're right, it's not impossible to win. but the game isn’t always over just because the gates are open, or in this case because the hatch is closed. Sometimes you need to save a friend on a hook, or be saved by them...Twice now I have died from the Endgame event because I went back to save my teammates. I saved one, and another got put on a hook so I went back to save them too, but due to the ‘end game’ event, we died on our way back to the gate from the bottom level of the Gideon Meat Plant, where they'd been hooked. If the killer is still putting people on hooks, then they are still playing the game, and to disallow their rescue, through an arbitrary timer is to give the killer the final word, making it no game at all, but a rigged deck. It would make more sense if the killer was no longer allowed to hook survivors after closing the hatch. That might balance it out. But saving a hooked survivor after the gates opened shouldn't be punished by instant death, not unless it's by the killer themselves. If they aren't good enough to catch you, they don't deserve to. Survivors shouldn’t be punished for continuing to play with a killer who's hooked someone and clearly wasn’t done with the game yet. You could say that I have a choice to make, let my teammate die on the hook and save myself, or go back for them even though I know the clock will kill me. I'd rather play with the person who'd take a chance to try and save me, and I'd rather be that kind of person too. So the real question is, how long will people like that keep playing for, if their reward for having a little honor is death?
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I like the new collapse for ending the game but I've got an edge case problem.
That brings up some interesting points to mind. Killers are now ‘camping’ hatches with one survivor left and absolutely no hope of success. Sounds like a game I wouldn’t want to play…and that worries me, this is my second most favorite game after all…
Last January the rates of escape for survivors were already at an average of 30%, based off a post I read on steam. Last year there was a lot of complaining because there were too many killers and not enough survivors, resulting in longer wait periods for killers in lobby.
Each new killer they put out is usually balanced with a weakness or new survival perks that will help defend against them. But there’s no counter to the killer’s ability to close the hatch on survivors, or to the countdown timer, making the change completely unbalanced in the killer’s favor.
It’s not complaining or even an exaggeration to point out that the number of survivors who play the game is likely to drop if the balance isn’t fixed, no one wants to play a game which is near impossible to win. It feels like the scales are tipped against them. It’s like playing poker with a person who can count cards. You only do it if they’re good company, and never for money. If the balance isn’t restored, then the drop in the number of survivors playing will aggravate some of the very problems they’ve been trying to solve, resulting in even longer wait times for killers in lobby.
I won’t lie…After seeing this change in action, it’s already gone through my head a few times that I should switch games, and if you know me, that’s a rare occurrence…over 2000 hours clocked on DBD and I’m still awful at it. 😊 But I love the game, that’s why I don’t want to see it destroyed.
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@Orion said:
It's not punishing survivors for protecting teammates. You have a choice to make - save yourself or risk going back. You have to take into account the timer as well when making your decision.
Guess I'll be dying a lot more then.