Zer0Chill
Zer0Chill
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Honestly I highly agree. The last few updates between Blight and Vecna 2 solidified what is justifiable to make a Killer 4.4 and Trickster lacks that justification. His overall lethality is the lowest compared to other 4.4 Killers (even Hag) and his power is unable to put pressure on Survivors especially when they abuse tall loops he can't use his power at. Every other 4.4 Killer makes it a risk to continuously use those loops, but Trickster is forced to respect the loops as he basically has negative speed maneuvering around them
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@MrBuffalo said:
A reason why gens are also done fast is also because of the S tier killers getting out of hand if the game drags on. Best counter to their high mobility/high lethality is to not give them a prolonged game.
I think a good example of this is lets take Blight with 4 slow down perks. Pain Res, Surge, Dead man Switch and Eruption. As we know Blight is a strong killer and with these 4 slow down perks he easily can get out of hand by downing the first person. Best way to counter it? Don't give him the momentum, do the gens before he really has a chance to use any of the perks.
And a sad side affect of the high mobility/lethality killers is the game has now been pretty much balanced/focused around them leaving any killer who doesn't have speed or fast downing potential in the dust. On the survivor side of things you're going into a match expecting to verse our example killer, Blight with 4 slow downs and would have to do what I stated above. Do gens faster than he can get momentum. So even if they are going up against any other killer that isn't S tier they're just gonna do the gens fast anyway because they already brought the build to do gens.
So unfortunately if we try to slow the game down for these none S tier killers you would have to do a lot of balance changes and maybe even killer power reworks for any of the S tier killers. And unfortunately this is BHVR so good luck with any kind of real problem solving with this one. I honestly see BHVR adding another 10 seconds to gens instead of addressing the actual problem.
Yeah I feel like Blight ruined a lot of the pacing design of the game and centralized the Killer meta to be around needing to combine lethality and rushing and Survivors needing to have better tools to combat this. It feels even worse knowing that this playstyle of Blight wasn't even originally designed to be that since they wanted to do something different with him (and couldn't) and now a Pandora's Box of horrific game design was opened by complete accident. Billy was originally nerfed because the developers correctly acknowledged that combining hard to react to mobility with a one-shot down was not a good idea. But because of the way the game evolved, they not only reverted that nerf on Billy but also turned it into a speed buff even though that was a horrible idea in practice. On the other hand, you have Hag who used to be seen as a great Killer and has only received buffs. Yet nowadays, she's seen as a very weak Killer because the game evolved in a way that rendered her methodical playstyle extremely weak. I do hope that BHVR recognizes that they need to slow the game down just a little bit
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@ThePromethean said:
100% agree. The pace is too fast, gens fly too fast, killers need to have speed to keep up. It leaves slower killer like Myers and trapper in the dust while people usually go blight or ghoul so we get a very stale repetitive game with the same killers over and over and we get tunneling to get someone out fast.
The reason it has come to this is partly due to people saying they hate doing gens so the the Devs won't slow them down and partly due to people saying they want "interaction" and always in the action. The result is we have fast paced matches where it's more like an action game than a horror game.
I would prefer it way more if the game was slowed down, had more tension and suspense, more stealth, all killers had the feeling of being lethal not just the top tiers while the lower tiers are mocked and literally ran circles around a pallet. If there was any alternative to DBD I would drop DBD in a shot but it's the only option available unfortunately.
I don't know why people are downvoting you either but yeah. When the game was a lot slower, it definitely had a lot more suspense to it. A lot more reasons to tread carefully or you get punished. Now people just want to finish games quickly and move onto the next queue. Imo, that's where I feel a lot of the core issues people have with the game exist in where it's less about wanting an authentic game experience and more about wanting to play DbD like any other multiplayer live service game with competitive elements. All the balancing adjustments and changes to the core gameplay feel like they fit this mentality
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@Flickeringlig said:
Nice AI post.
Nice AI response. It does not invalidate the feelings I have for the game in regards to its speed, so idk why you decided to make such a nothingburger post about it.
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@CompetitifDBD said:
His cooldown would still need to be significantly reduced. the problem with him using only 2 tokens and getting a hit is that he'll get his power back in 4 seconds, which isn't fair at all. Assuming your suggestions were his basekit, he should have a set cooldown of 8 seconds for getting a lethal rush hit. If all this was his power, Blight wouldn't be at all problematic
I feel that would be a good addition to put the cooldown to 8 seconds yeah. Still shorter than the overall 5 Charges, but still notable to change.
@Rickprado said:
I politely dislike your idea. Blight would become Wesker with higher turning rate.
Trust me, you wouldn't want to go against a Blight with 70% turn rate, even if it becomes weaker than he already is. Would be a Kaneki with more steps.
To me, his problems lies on him being 4.6 and having speed addons. Maybe if the was turned into 4.4 and had another addon pass (removing the speed addons) Blight would be in a much better spot than he is now.
But, to be honest? To me, i don't have an issue with Blight. Its more rare than anything to go against a good Blight these days that i don't mind having a killer with this strength. Those of us who survived the Mother's Daughter Ring + Amulet era can withstand anything haha
And it's fine to dislike or disagree! I do understand how making him 4.4 m/s would be a nerf, but I must respectfully disagree with it myself. Making him 4.4 m/s was something that I originally considered but came to the conclusion that it only raises the barrier to playing Blight without really addressing any of the problematic aspects behind Blight's power. People who are already good with Blight will still terrorize games with him because 4.4 m/s doesn't mean much outside of niche scenarios as he's still rushing with so much mobility that he can cross maps with ease and still can end chases quickly. Meanwhile, less experienced Killer players trying Blight will feel frustrated with trying to play him because of the 4.4 m/s speed feeling awful to play with alongside his power still being too difficult for them to play with as the turn just isn't good enough to hit with.
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In my experience, Vecna feels a lot more like a slower but more consistent Unknown. He's powerful, but good players tends to waste too much of his time trying to proc power (once you learn to dodge with hearing rather than watching Vecna move, he becomes much easier to dodge). Thus, his power can feel absolutely useless at times outside of indoor environments with closed spaces. The fact that he's 4.4m/s only accentuates his weaknesses further
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...thinking about it, I think a really good potential Killer would be Mother Harlot
Thematically, Mother Harlot is based off the Babylonian ######### in the Book of Revelations of the Bible as one of the great evils who plague the world during the End Times. It is stated that her goblet holds all of humanity's filth that she drinks from and rides on the back of the Seven-Headed Beast (as shown in the link). In a few of the games, she's either the strongest of the Fiends or is among the strongest of them which does give her presence.
Visually, she has an amazing design for a Killer; Mother Harlot sports an opulent style that evokes the image of the ######### of Babylon while her skull-head showcases how she is a being of death and agony. On top of that, the Beast of Revelations can be implemented in her Mori as well as in the lobby screens, so there is something there that'd definitely be popular among players in aesthetics.
Gameplay wise, her signature moves Babylon Goblet and Death Lust do have potential to create an interesting kit since in the games they inflict Panic and Charm respectively. There are probably multiple ways one can interpret how this can be translated into DbD. Perhaps Death Lust can be used to infect Survivors with Oblivious and then Babylon Goblet after hitting an Oblivious Survivor twice inverts that Survivor's controls and enables her Special Attacks to deal damage for 20 seconds? Something interesting there I feel.
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@THEProblemsolver said:
i dont even know the plot can someone summerize?
So there is no overarching plot in the Shin Megami Tensei games (outside of 1 and 2), but there are recurring themes between them:
●Humanity's vices bring forth demons, thus triggering an apocalyptic event caused by nuclear fallout to a ritual to restart and recreate the world to even the death of God.
●Protagonist is someone who is caught up with the powers of the world and eventually has to choose their ideal over the course of the game to determine the outcome of the world and humanity.
●Along the way, your allies become enemies if you side against them, you will die as often as you will to enemy encounters in Dark Souls and will be stressed out not knowing whether or not a demon will ambush you.
That is basically the stories of the games in a nutshell. There is very fascinating lore tidbits in the series that connects the games to a grander-scale multiverse, but the games themselves are (mostly) self-contained and you can play any of the games in the series without needing to play any others. Nocturne and Vengeance are the most accessible games if you have an interest in the series and I do give my recommendation to play them.
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A Mara Charm would be absolutely amazing to see in DbD though
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@100PercentBPMain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4053239#Comment_4053239
I kinda did...oops..
I wonder if this chapter would work best as a survivor standalone or a store collection? does Smt have notable personalities for the bad guys? Persona has Hitler, who is a certified jerk and not nice guy. Are all the bad guys just demons?
Honestly there is more than enough choices for a Killer. Anyone who played SMT Nocturne would know that The Fiends would make for excellent Killer material by themselves. Thematically, they're perfect for it considering how they represent the fear of death through biblical proportions which is just metal in general. The biggest problem with that however would be that there are so many Fiends that choosing which base fiend to make a Killer power around is difficult in itself. Matador is definitely iconic as he is the one demon from the game that shows just how deadly the Fiends and the rest of the game will be if the player doesn't take it seriously. But I don't think basing a Killer Power around Red Capote would be anything interesting and would lead to him being another Dash Killer.
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Blood Warden is fine of a perk as it is. It's very easy to play around as it is only triggerable once the exit gates are opened and you hook a Survivor in that time. It's a major reason why Survivors are conditioned to 99 the Exit Gates because the existence of Blood Warden can turn an easy escape into a perilous endeavor. NOED as a perk is more problematic than Blood Warden and NOED is not really used beyond Low MMR crutches and some Endgame Builds
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Funnily enough, what I noticed is that my escape rates/games where multiple Survivors escaped have increased significantly following the release of the newest Stranger Things Chapter because of We See You and Object of Obsession. In fact, I found in my experience that Perks and Add-Ons revealing the Killer's Aura have been a very strong answer to the things you talked about. The only issue with them is... Stealth Killers, and it's no wonder how most of my losses have been from Stealth Killers.
If you are struggling with facing off against Killer, I do recommend adopting an Aura-reading build so that you can figure out who the Killer is definitively and how they move and approach so you can strategize around their play patterns. Being able to read the Killer's Aura does make a huge difference between surviving and dying since it allows for you to play more proactively than being forced to react to how the Killer plays when it drops on you. I do acknowledge that it sounds like a band-aid fix, but if it works for Killer then it should work for Survivor too. Information is still the strongest tool in Dead by Daylight in either role.
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Blood Warden has its moments and it's really fun in an endgame build... but being fun does not make the Perk the best if it only has one specific use. The best Perks are ones that bring constant value throughout the game, have a noticeable impact during gameplay, are easy enough to use and are self-sufficient. In terms of Killer Perks? Pain Resonance, Rapid Brutality, Nowhere to Hide and Grim Embrace all have Blood Warden beat
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@PetTheDoggo said:
Well, thing is it doesn't really count as a hit/down with 4 tokens. That's also why it won't trigger Eruption…
Also not really new thing in DBD, can't Myers do basically same thing?
Vecna attosecond insta-killing a Survivor the moment they touch the ground off-hook is kind of different different compared to Myers being able to instantly kill an unhooked Survivor because Myers at least gives some room for being able to avoid it whereas this scenario is basically DBD's equivalent of a Kaizo Trap where successfully unhooking a Survivor kills them immediately and it's better to leave them on hook. It's a situation which is extremely feel-bad for the Survivor on hook. There do exist Triggers in the game where a power slows down considerably or stops working the moment a Survivor performs an unhook action such as with Knight and Singularity. And Vecna's power is very close to that category, but BHVR probably left out the command to slow down the Undergate Attack when an Unhook action in its vicinity is performed. I think adjusting that parameter would be healthier though.
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@cogsturning said:
You're not the only one. I recently posted a match clip where it happened as well.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/463409/is-this-a-bug
Hopefully this is addressed because it's pretty bad. He's already been something of a tunneling menace in my survivor matches. We don't really need him instakilling fresh unhooks too.
It is really absurd. I talked with a friend about it and apparently he theorized that BHVR didn't implement a check for Endurance when the Mind Breaker effect triggers. And it sounds like that is what happened. Hopefully this exploit becomes patched out because it's not only upsetting to be on the receiving end of, but it also just does not feel right from a game logic perspective.
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I appreciate the bug fixes in the Chapter. I am curious to see how the balances will be like in the mid-chapter update though!