Deezus
Deezus
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- Deezus
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@Psypho_Diaz said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1037828#Comment_1037828
It's sad you can't own up to your gameplay.
Ok I'm guessing you are either trolling at this point, or are just straight up bitter guy. Either way I'm done humoring you. My gameplay is out there for you to see champ,; never a secret. I own it every time I broadcast it.
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@Psypho_Diaz said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1037571#Comment_1037571
Dude, just own up to it. You think camping is necessary to win.
I already spelt out everything for you. You chose not to read it. Its just a tip but a big tip you should take: go read it.
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@Psypho_Diaz said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1036750#Comment_1036750
No I didn't. I just called you out as a camper because that's what you did. Yea gens go fast, so you camped because it was "your only option". Clearly it wasn't.
You keep doing it, lol. Just big ol whooshhes one after the other. I told you this already champ, those other options you suggested in this very specific situation were not only bad, but wrong as well. I have all sorts of options, I could leave, quit, let them escape--list goes on. Not all options are good ones and I picked the best one. For the last time, if you want to question my judgement on matches I've got loads of opportunities for you that will continue to prove your logic is flawed. Take one and learn something other than being someone who brags about being toxic.
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@Psypho_Diaz said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1034664#Comment_1034664
Wow, bringing up camping again. Nice. Let me guess chasing one of the 2 survivors he clearly saw wasn't an option. Faking a Chase and doubling back wasn't an option. Spawn killing in FPS is probably "morally viable" in your opinion to, cause it's the"smart" way to win right?
Guy, youve already proven on the other thread that you missed the point. It just keeps going over your head--I'm not sure that can be helped. If you are obsessed with the thought of me trying to showcase how to win ( regardless of these stupid fast gen speeds which IS THE POINT OF THIS VIDEO) then check out other youtube videos of mine or flat out watch the raw, uncut streams where I play the DbD. Itll be way more helpful for you than you intentionally deranking, being toxic and still not winning.
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@Aura_babyy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1032452#Comment_1032452
That's still not 3 gens though
I need someone to show me that, I have yet to see that happen to myself or any of the streamers I watch
2.9 gens good enough?
https://youtu.be/CcDFyn25XXI -
Yeah it's rough. Very VERY common for survivors to dc when things don't go their way. I don't think it's possible to deter them from doing so. I mainly play fighting games and they haven't addressed people dcing either. I kudzu want it to where I'm not punished for them dcing
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@DaGreenBolt said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1007937#Comment_1007937
Yep, you downed survivors as fast as possible, and ran two slowdown perks, yet 3 gens popped under 2 minutes. This is the reality now that Ruin got nerfed.
Also to answer your question in the video, the was really no other play you could have done. You basically did what every killer is doing now and capitalizing on the mistakes the survivors made, and camping when it's needed.
Your video is a very good example that maps aren't the only problem, and that gen times are an actual problem that needs to be addressed first.
Heh, I appreciate it. Actually I am discussing this on another thread who thinks that I should take the bait and chase a survivor away from the basement knowing the other will free them while no one is doing gens. I pretty much assume now that survivors feel that killers are obligated to allow survivors safe unhooks and I couldnt disagree more.
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@Carlosylu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1015237#Comment_1015237
Damn that was long to read!
My point is merely that pipping sistem and ranking are a priority, if we could focus on getting the 3k+ instead of "not letting survivors do gens early game" as one of our objectives to pip then we would have a way more fun game absed in being a killer, not a sabotager.
About the gen's speed, I don't know about you, I'm a red rank in both survivor and killer and as survivor I practically ALWAYS spawn with my teammates and I don't work on different gens, we do the same one, better experience as a SWF, gives the killer a chance, bla bla bla. And as killer, I always find everyone together in a single gen (I run discordance), it's practically 1/10 games where more than 1 gen gets done in my early game, I don't know if it's my platform (xbox), rank (red) or luck, but this is the most common thing I find: 2+ survivors on a single gen, I hit one, hit the other, down him, hook, repeat. There are specific maps like rottenfields and the new Yamaoka that actually give me a challenge as a trapper and GF main.
I have a question: don't you think that the fact that not letting gens get done in early game is one of our killer's objectives is affecting our percepetion of a win?
I've had way more fun in games where I trapped the hell out of the map before even getting on a chase and I was using CI for it (cause there are lots of dummies out ther who think, IN RED RANKS! WTH?! that waiting for CI to fade is better than trying to find a viable gen to do and regardless of how many gens were done), I 4k and all survivors sent a GG message afterwards thinking I was OP, as traper...
I don't know man, I just believe that there are more important core stuff that need the Devs attention more than gen speed, I'd start with matchmaking, pipping sistem and maps, and we'd have to see from there.
Heh, yeah sorry again I like to make sure I'm thorough with discussion.
I'm with you on how wins should be determined. I enjoy 4(3) genning by embracing the fact htat I have to hook survivors 3 times each. In my ideal scenario, I pay the price of losing 2 outer gens while hooking survivors a few times. When there are only 2 gens left for survivors, the "true" game begins. Based on how well I as the killer or how well the survivors do at this point, will determine how things will go. If I manage to find a survivor with 2 hooks already and down him now its a 3v1 with 2 gens and I have a pretty good advantage. Buuuttt if survivors avoid my grasp and can afford to get hooked more orr got sneaky and infiltrated those core gens I mentioned in my past post, then I typically concede that I may not win clean and have to settle for a black pip and shift my focus from defending gens to getting hooks. This is far from reality atm as it is a huge gamel to willingly put yourself in that scenario.
I stopped playing survivor a while ago. When I did I was in the red ranks during the cube era. When I did play, I agree, you were guaranteed to bump into a survivor, hell it was proven in the early days of the dedicated servers when dcs during loading screen was constant. Survivors would end up with 200 bp because they spawned in and got that reunited bonus. That said, we are talking about red rank survivors and even though its always been fairly easy to progress, not all red rank survivors are walk-ins. Id like to think the majority are skilled, which means they know not to stack gens. ( unless its intentional to guarantee killer interaction to ensure they dont blackpip by escaping too fast).
To answer your question of if I think the gen speeds and preventing them from being completed is affecting our perception of a win: 100% it is. My win condition is a pip plain and simple. Just liek survivor I came up during the cube days where the win/black pip condition was simple: hook 2 survivors 3 times each. Id love for that to make a return along with the emblem system. Where if you hook 3 people it guarantees a pip and if you get 2 then the emblem system takes effect to determine if you blackpip or not. THis is a different conversation as well though so I'll get back on track lol. "Fun" and "winning" are polar opposites in DbD right now. It would be nice to just focus on hunting survivors and I think/hope it is like this with the new gatekeeper change. I'll have to get back to you on how I feel about the game with these new changes.
Another brick but final point here: I wish I could agree with you that attention is needed elsewhere but how I see it, it all comes down to how the game is played. If that game is ending just as it starts, what happens after that game is over doesnt mean so much. And if people cant play the kilelrs they want to play because they cant cross the map fast enough to even stop survivors from finishing the gens then not as many people will play making MM changes not so meaningful. The video I posted showcased a main point of map size not being an issue but my one concession would be if anything were to be adjusted before gen speeds, it would be map size but I have a controversial opinion of that-- I WANT/ LIKE big maps. i want it to be hard to even find gens. I think survivors grouping on one generator would reallllyyy be a bad idea if the killer finds them and they have to go farrr away to start on another gen. This cant work though with this game lol. I like the map designs I dont like the idea of maps being shaved down because it takes away fro the aesthetic. I'd need people to define what a decent map size would be to fine tune my opinion though. So the reason why I think gen speeds beats map size is that addressing map size seems impossible.
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@Carlosylu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1007937#Comment_1007937
Ahm, first, this video was useless to make, just check game statistics, a single gen, being done by a single person takes 80 seconds, no need testing it... 3 gens can be done in 1.5 minutes if 3 survivors spawned at different gens. This is one of the problems of this community, most people don't even know the basics...
Now... 2 gens in under 2 minutes... The 3rd wasn't done so doesn't count... 4k'd... No CI... You're telling me you want the 4k without gens getting done with that build...? Man... Stop...
Just use logic...
3 men on gens, 1 on a chase, it takes 80 seconds per gen when 1 man is doing it, if every one of them was doing a different one you're getting 3 gens in 1.5 minutes, IT'S OBVIOUS... but this... THIS IS NOT COMMON! it's common to see 3 guys working on the same gen, making you easy hit them all, make them waste time to do so, not completting the gens and even if the 1st one gets done they need to find another gen (more time as they seek for another one) cause ANY competent survivors know NOT to do the gen next to the one you did, THAT'S WHY he got a 4k at the end...
WANT MY OPINION?
He took the choice of not bringing in CI (not gonna mention Ruin cause it's getting nerfed) if he actually wanted to "slow down" gens being done, the survivors spawned separated from each other (we know that practically NEVER happens) being able to do 1 gen per person, finishing 2 in 1.5 minutes and almost a 3rd, they made mistakes by not checking which gens were being done and that's why he ended up with a 4k AND COMPLAINED ABOUT GEN TIMES... with Spirit...
Show me a game with a good player playing Spirit (I'm not saying you're not one or the man in the video), using CI, Ruin or Thanato, it can be in the same map if you want to, but have in mind we all know that's a hard map for killers (quoting stats), against men doing the same gen together and knowing how to pick gens to do... YES, they'll take more time to do gens, but I can assure you it will not be an easy 4k like in this game...
If you could actually NOT CARE for gens being done in the early game, and assure yourself a pip by any means if you get a 3k or 4k, we woudnt' be talking about the "it took 1.5 mins" to do 2-3 gens, you'd be more worried in getting the kills, more than in the time gens get done...
I appreciate the thoroughness of your point. I want to thank you for sharing it with me, so lets talk about it.
When it comes to showing this video in particular, it was very important to showcase the absurdity of gen times not only by themselves but with a perfect set of events. Instant find ( which was based off of a successful GUESS) I didn't get looped or have a pallet dropped, and I downed the survivor as close to as fast as possible. Bear in mind that this was only possible because I played spirit. Most killers will not be able to do this at all, let alone consistent enough to be considered the standard for killers. With this being a best case scenario for killers period and the clean down, 3 ( yes three) gens were essentially done in that time without toolboxes. The reason I am counting that third one is because of the pegs. Regression without new ruin is terrible and a problem to talk about in a different conversation so once a gen gets to 96+ percent for simplicity sake it is very fine to count that as a completed gen as the main point isnt that they only have to do 2 gens at 2 mins into the game-- its that it takes a short time to get from 0 to 100.
You mentioned that it is not common for survivors to spawn on gens and go to each one and I would say that is up for speculation and the argument against you would be that at higher ranks, there likelyhood that survivors knowing that going to individual generators is the optimal way to attack them. However, I will concede that even at higher levels of play, survivors spawn in the same area AND choose to double up on the 2 nearest gens or worse. This said, the point isnt that they spawn separately and do gens, the point is that individually at any point in the game survivors by themselves can do one gen extremely fast. Multiply that 3 times and boo, multiple gens are being attacked this way. I wanted to point out that its possible even against a spirit who had a perfect start. I want to reiterate that against killers who don't have excellent chasing tools to get the 2nd hit quickly again, they have to spend even more time chasing that survivor which means more time for survivors to work on gens that take a short time to complete. I havent even brought up loops, strong pallets or map size yet.
I want to address this quickly as its not the point I was making, but the 4k doesnt matter so much for 2 main reasons: It doesnt determine if I pip or not like it used to and that 4k only happened because one survivor made a terrible mistake, and it could be argued that the other made a looping mistake. Which means if survivors didnt make the mistakes shown ( which is very common at high levels of play) then I would not even have gotten those double basement hooks in the first place AND the gens would still have been completed.
I want to also address the choice to not take CI shortly as well as this is an entirely new convo in itself. The perk is mediocre at best and Ill tell you why. The perk essentially makes the most important gens the only gens to be available to be worked on. Ill admit a bit of bias in this one and say that I am a Doctor main. My main strategy was developed due to years of playing him and that strategy is to assign "weight" to each gen. The further away from center of the map a generator is, the lighter weight it holds. I am willing to sacrifice a far off gen because I do not want to end up in a situation where survivors need 1 gen left and 1 of the 3 remaining gens to be worked on is on the other side of the map. That means the central area is a very important place for not only me but the survivors too if they want to win. CI essentially makes it to where survivors will attack the most important gens first and as I get looped and chase after the first hit, other survivors are working on those core gens because they have no other choice. Even if i were (and I do when the time is right) peel away and go after antoher survivor, that still leaves 2 survivors free to do the other gens left available by CI. By the time the perk dies survivors have created a prioity to finish those ideal gens at the fast rate that they naturally do them. Using CI post ruin change is a weak band-aid to address this issue and I predict it will not be the answer to this new meta. I actually predict new ruin will still remain the best possible way to slow down gens but only with certain killers and Doc being one of them :)
The final thing I wanted to address what you would like to see as in the video I did use thanato and nothing came of it. It should really be noted that if we are talking stats and empirical evidence, it has long since been proven that thanato does a terrible job at hindering gen speeds. The core reason I personally use it is that it stacks well with sloppy to slow down HEAL times. Thanato is terrible at slowing down gens. That said, you wanted to see a game with spirit using it and that video did just that. The point of that video is that no killer player would do anything different when it comes to handling that first survivor and then going after the second and because of that, 3 gens got done. There was no room for speculation or doubt when it came to the speed there as it all went down in under 2 mins.
So a final iteration: The point I personally wanted to make is that anytime in any place, gens can be done extremely quickly without toolboxes, without the first survivor doing any looping ( which is very common), without any pallets being dropped (common), and with the second survivor getting peeled off the generator. Imagine the standard events of a chase and the claudette not getting picked up. Imagine it NOT being spirit. Thats a rough set of circumstances man. The 4k wasnt relevant here because you are absolutely right, the goal is to win. Getting 4k doesnt guarantee that anymore as it currently stands. It however, almost sounds like you think the 4k does that though and I would ask if you could clarify if thats what you mean.
Sorry for the wall but you gave me a lot to go over and I appreciate that. I feel like I may have missed something so I hope you continue to respond.
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@Xerge said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1007937#Comment_1007937
I also used to think big maps were the issue with gens, but experiencing scenarios like this, playing as both survivor and killer (1800 hours of play), in small maps made me realize gen speed is indeed a problem that shouldn't be dismissed.
Without a doubt. Its very important to me that the speed of gens being done being an issue isnt buried under all of the other issues that need addressing as well. Otherwise we will just keep getting bandaid solutions back to back.
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@EZ5k said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1008361#Comment_1008361
Yeah, watching it was wild. It seems my returning impressions weren't wrong about the core imbalances remaining the exact same. Lemme hop over and toss you a fat follow on the twitcheroni because that was some wild speed
Oyy thanks, that's means a lot man.
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@EZ5k said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1008129#Comment_1008129
Yeah, that's gonna make for a sick analysis vid, especially when I get around to actually delving into the depths of why the games balance has staled and remained extremely poor after 3 years.
I hope it helps. Ive played alootttt of killer games. I've had quick wins and quick losses at high ranks, part of the game. This game on my vid was a first. I main doc so I'm used to the long, control-style game. I was blind sided when those gens popped on arguably my fastest down ever on a non one-shot killer.
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@Warcrafter4 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1008129#Comment_1008129
I was agreeing with gen speed being to fast as I was saying this more or less:
If 2 Fast back to back survivor downs in the first min or 2 of the game still results in ~3 gens popping then something is wrong with the generator speed in the game.
Edit: This is let alone with thanatohpobia getting 2 stacks due to it slowing down the gen completion.
Ahh I hear ya. Late night for me lol. It is wild. The cherry on top is only one of them used a toolbox.
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@Warcrafter4 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1007937#Comment_1007937
This is nearly as fast as possible to get 2 people down on a killer without an instant down and ~3 gens where done even with 2 slowdown perks...
I'm not sure what you are saying here but its my fault. My bad for not clarifying my post. My argument is that gen times are without a doubt a problem to be discussed, moreso than map size infact. Map size is an issue dont get me wrong but yes, this is pretty much the fastest you can find and down someone without instant downs and yet even with a slight debuff to gen speeds, three got done immediately. I wanted to put this in the discussion because I am worried that the speed of gens getting done will get neglected and that should not happen. There are a whole mess of issues to be resolved, and youve listed them yourself but again, my argument is that the problem with gen speeds should not be dismissed for those other issues.
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