rook10682
rook10682
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As for camping, my thoughts are as follows:
Just talking about the concept of camping for instance. Many survivors are SCREAMING for punishing the killer who camps. Devs just nerfed two major perks that I can see that encouraged EFing off as soon as you hook. With BBQ and chili, it showed you where people were, FAR AWAY.So, reason to leave and GET EM...same for pain resonance. You had an idea of what gen needed pressure RIGHT then and the regression gave you JUST enough time maybe to get there. Buuut, they got rid of the part that encourages people to leave the hook. Sooo, question for you survivors...honest one. Would you prefer it this way where they get LESS info and MORE reason to camp...or they get MORE info and LESS reason to camp?
On a related note:
The problem with camping. What if...when a killer hooks someone, all generators not being worked will regress very slowly starting at 35m after hook, and the rate of regression goes up faster the further the killer is from the hook. (Nothing insane) but this encourages and rewards killers for not camping and applies extra pressure for survivors to get someone off the hook ASAP...but it would mean a lot LESS camping and both sides get a trade off for it...then you can just have ruin do something like double that speed that it goes up by or whatever. I don't see any abuse problems with this right off the bat but I could be wrong. What do you guys things about something like this?
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Word, I can appreciate that thought too! Either way, a good thing hopefully.
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@Roaroftime said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3117944#Comment_3117944
It's more common after the update and they won't revisit them anyway unless they help prevent tunnelling.
I can't say I see any empirical data on this. Plus tunneling/camping are like "looping" or "throwing pallets"...they are things that side does, sometimes its the right time, strategically, to do so, and sometimes its not. No one yells "Nice pallets, you palleter!" At survivors after a match. As if it were bad form to throw pallets. Standing and hitting you on hook, that is just BM and it SUCKS...but it happened all the time before the patch, if you feel its happening more, I would imagine its just a perception thing, or you are going down more with the meta change. That will change as you learn the new meta I am sure. Survivors ALWAYS cry new killers are WAY OP when they first come out. What it really is, they don't know how to deal with them yet, as soon as the strats are learned its NO WHERE NEAR as bad as people complain...this patch is no different. I rarely EVER see a survivor say they messed up, or that their losses are their fault in ANY way, its always due to something they can't control...like a patch. You think it sucks to be a survivor now? WOW...welcome to what its like to be a killer for the past 6 years!
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@Taxman232 said:
As a solo survivor, this game is no longer balanced or fun. I understand needing to rebalance killer to tackle toxic SWF, but this has been done at the expense of the solo q experience.
Game 1
Artist with Plaything, Dead Man Switch (DMS), Pain Res and Pentimento
First two survivors were tunnelled and camped out of the game before the second gen popped. Third survivor was slugged and DCd after not being picked up, just as I was downed. Killer then stood over me waiting for me to bleed out.
Game 2
Huntress with DMS, Pain Res, Surge and Thana
First two survivors camped and tunneled out of the game (even with DS, BT and OTR - unbroken tunnel vision). Third survivor slugged, I am downed with 2 gens being done. Rubbing salt in the wound being sent to RPD.
Game 3
Deathslinger with DMS, Pain Res, Starstruck and Thana
First survivor face camped in the basement, next two proxy camped. Actually managed 4 gens this game as Badham hook layout favourable but last survivor killed before finding hatch.
Game 4
Nurse with recovery add ons DMS, Pain Res, BBQ and Furtive
You can probably guess how this went, nurse recovers from blink and hit as the haste speed burst wears off - downed in 20seconds. 4 slugs left to bleed out.
If you've stuck with me this far I have some other observations. I rarely see a killer bring an end game perk because they know they just dont need it now. Camping and Tunnelling are worse than before the rework and solo survivors feel incredibly weak.
Personally I would like to see Devs focus on rebalancing and fixing DBD rather than promoting their gimmicky dating sim.
Just my 2 cents here, but the real problem started when they introduced SWF on a game that was balanced to work between one killer and 4 survivors without coms. Now, SWFers will say "I want to play with my friends!" and "What an antisocial statement that you blame having friends for the game being bad!" But lets face it. The ORIGINAL game was NEVER BUILT FOR IT!!!! Now they have to BUFF killers just to keep up with SWFS...and if that isn't a red flag that there is a problem I don't know what is. Because you are right, SOLO is left behind. You CAN'T take away SWF now according to so many but lets ask ourselves...If we got rid of SWF on ranked matches in exchange for a game that legit could be properly balanced, wouldn't you want to do that? Otherwise it's either the Killers or the SOLO players that suffer, SWFS never get the short end of the stick on that really. We need to start a union between the two groups that have to trade suffering....SOLO AND KILLERS....and make a movement to point out how BAD the balance is because of the power of coms. If you are put in with random people every game, the killers are able to be balanced in power vs THAT level of teamwork. Make sense? Prove me wrong, anybody. Don't tell me "Why you like and want to keep SWF" tell me why the DEVS continue to allow something to destroy game balance even bein possible.
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@Roaroftime said:
yup, I just had a wraith stood hitting me on hook at 3 gens :/ This effects of this update r v damaging to the game :(
Honest question; what does the update have to do with anyone hitting you on hook for 3 gens? I mean, I would be willing to bet money that this person behaved like that long before the update? Just saying, if you are going to complain about the effects of the update, don't discredit the ACTUAL complaints by just lumping totally unreleated problems onto it. When someone hears you say things like that, it is harder for them to hear legit complaints about the patch. I am telling you this for your own good if you REALLY want someone to revisit the changes made in the game.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Another one (maybe not unpopular, but underdiscussed):
Blight without speed is a completely different beast than Blight with speed.
Yeah and trapper without traps is TOTALLY different from a trapper WITH TRAPS....oh and hey, here is another du doi observation, Nurse WITHOUT blinks is a totally different beast than a Nurse WITH BLINKS!! ;)
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@C3Tooth said:
Survivor can collect Gas at Gas station. Time to collect 30 charges is 10sec. They can hold 30 charges at max.
Each charge Survivor hold give them ability to repair a Gen charge. A Gen requires 60 charges to complete.
Hit a survivor will deplete their charge of Gas, forcing them to collect Gas again to able to repair Gen.
Because of how effective regressing works with this (no charge no repair, which regression continue). Gens have 50% check point, which if progression is at 80%, the regress it can go is 50%. However, regression rate goes faster.
10sec collect Gas + time travel to Gen + 30sec repair Gen + time travel to Gas + 10sec collect Gas + time travel to Gen + 30sec repair Gen = greater than 90sec Gen. Plus its more fun that way.
This seems like you have an idea. But VERY little idea on how balance would actually work, I mean, just looking at the math and concepts on these numbers. Why have a secondary point where a gen cant regress past half but then it just regresses faster? It could very easily be the same difference here but with an unnecessary change to how progress works. ALL of these numbers translate to time, period. In any event, this feels pretty far off the mark for a good system on that.
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@HugTheHag said:
I'm all for disincentiving disconnecting during perfectly normal games, as it is disrespectful for the other players and especially lethal for teammates, but there are circonstances that would make these restrictions really harsh.
What about hacker games ? There seems to be quite a lot of games taken hostages these days.
Or toxic players actively trying to make you DC. (ran into one, would not recommend)
Or successive connection failures (not only talking about internet failures, but a lot of people are experiencing glitches where they are disconnected from games or lobbies despite having a correct connection)
So I think we should tread lightly on the subject of DC penalties, as they could be felt as very unfair depending on the circonstances.
You can sort of filter out hacker issues actually. If the average match is designed to be 15 to 20 min. Make it to where after 15 min (or 20, you would have to play with that) The DC penalty goes away. So players that at least put in the effort for that long MIGHT have a reason to DC, if the match is SUPER slow and stalematey due to 3 gens and what not or more importantly, if the hacker takes the game hostage, you can wait out 15 min and DC without incurring the strong repeat punishments, so it doesnt count on your repeat offender record at that point. Hackers sometimes keep people hostage for an hour or more, so its better than that I guess....not perfect but...its a little room on both sides of caution.
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@Cmoon3147 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/302521/what-is-going-on-with-camping
thank you to the killer mains for the feedback as to why you think camping has become somewhat common now, to see from your pov I decided to only play killer for a while and Jesus Christ I understand now. I’ve always thought CoH was a situational healing boost and nothing more when I play survivor but it became the bane of my existence as killer. I’ve never noticed how loopy some of the loops are (and how useless bloodlust can be) how little mobility you have unless playing a killer who’s specific power is mobility, even then I played billy and it was so hard to control him I was hitting walls more than survivors. And gens, don’t get me started on gens, I remember when ruin was in the store and I had to use my totem hunter build so much because every killer was using it. but now I’m kicking myself for not getting it myself because the speed at which gens get done is baffling. I still couldn’t bring myself to camp because it got boring and I’d end up on my phone and the survivor would get unhooked anyway but even if I think it ruins the enjoyment of both parties I can see why some people do it
VERY commendable response! You kept an open mind and took info into consideration and then you verified that info for yourself. You are a GD UNICORN man....rare AF. Peace my friend.
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@Akumakaji said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2723838#Comment_2723838
THIS! You hit the nail on the head with your post and I hope that many people read it and give it some thought; even though it contains litte new information, but mostly the same old, same old. But when issues get constantly and constantly and constantly brought up, because they are still a very, very, very, VERY big problem, yet for every step forward it feels like 3 things get nerfed, then somethings awry.
I am willing to make concessions and take into account my bias, but in the way the killer community is not only in arms, but many openly stating that they don't care anymore, then something should be done, and better then later.
Camping and tunneling have become a problem, I can see that, but this is the killers bandaid to the myriad of problems plaguing their gameplay. Anf I honestly hope that the solution will be a stab at this problems roots and giving the killers some incentive to play differently, and not again a nerf, debuff or other punishment. Don't use the stick over and over, and only the stick, remember that the carrot can be an even stronger tool.
I myself consider me a pretty capable killer main and I am doing pretty well and have an above average kill rate of 2,66, yet even I feel the burnout. I can't play game after game, without some bigger breaks, something that I don't experience with other games, competitive or not. I really love playing the killer, and I play by most survivor rules, but please, don't hurt the killer community any more and listen to their complaints.
Thank you, sometimes it takes someone seeing it from a different set of words for it to actually click. When you say camping and tunneling are a problem, I have to agree with you. As in, it shouldn't be the only viable trick left in our dwindling book of tricks to use. Again, though, it isn't a killer problem...or killer's fault as many survivors would like to point the finger at. It is a fault of the game design at this point in time. Survivors, instead of getting mad at killers SHOULD be voicing the concern to the devs, in SUPPORT of the killers. And I agree with your carrot/stick statement 100%! Stop asking the killers to be punished for doing things and give them good reasons to play other ways, then when the devs see that the killers aren't winning by playing the incentivized ways, they will realize that it the killers need retooling.
Case in point, devs have the opposite mindset right now. The survivors at high rank were complaining about facing the SAME 3 (or so) killers over and over and over. That was the case because they were the ONLY killers that were viable...the only ones that could keep up...the devs looked at this and heard that we need to lower the rate at which survivors are likely to encounter them...by NERFING them...instead of raising the other killers UP they squashed the only remaining viabilities down...and then in desperation, some people get REALLY good with killers who were considered DOG $HIT before...deathslinger, blight...yes, at one point these guys on MANY peoples tier lists were mid to low at best...then someone figured out some REALLY useful tricks, shared those methods and the killer was not only viable but could actually give these high tier survivors a (small) run for their money...and since survivors tend to accept nothing less than power stomping people into the ground, they mistake an actual challenge for being "unbalanced".
And lets not forget the other elephant in the room. The SWFs...how can you allow an advantage into a game that it was never balanced for? Outside communication was NOT intended and it CLEARLY isn't balanced for it...but the devs know they can't stop it if they wanted to and supposedly either SWFS are very rare (some say) and they are the bulk of the survivor community (others say)...it can't be both...but in any event, my opinion...RANKED GAMES SHOULD NOT BE OPEN TO SWF...ranked games should be the purest form of competition in the game...make another mode to "chill with your friends" if that is what you want to do. There seems to be a LOT of SWFs that do it and practice for the sole purpose of not only beating the killer, but with the added toxic intent of humiliating and bullying the killer. And many times, when I have managed to shut these people down, the DC en mass and abuse me in post game...because If I managed to stop them from bullying I apparently am a jerk. Killers, they have their own problems too I am not going to pretend that this is one sided. But as it goes with camping and tunneling...your perks, and your SKILLS are what is supposed to counter that. As in any sport...like if you look at volleyball, its unrealistic to have one side say the other side isn't allowed to spike the ball because you don't like to dive to save it but YOU are allowed to do it all you want. Camping has counterplay, tunneling HAS COUNTERPLAY...if you can't be bothered to learn how to counter that...you shouldn't be playing at the higher MMR you seem to want to aspire to., GOOD teams, good survivors KNOW what to do with those things...they don't demand the killer just not do it...that is like playing games with your 3 year old cousin and being asked to take it easy on them because they have NO CHANCE otherwise. So if survivors are asking the camping and tunneling to go away...to me it sounds like a 3 year old playing basketball with you but you have to play one handed and on your knees just to give him a shot of winning....don't be a toxic crying 3 year old, survivors...be better than that...stop asking the other side to tie hands behind their back. If you don't know how to counter these things, PM me...I will be happy to tell you and we can move ON.
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@Viktor1853 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2723782#Comment_2723782
but survivors dont care if the game is fun for the killer so why should killers care if the game is fun survivors
Amen, it is INSANE. Survivors DEMAND that you not camp or tunnel them. Its like asking survivors to go touch EVERY remaining gen at least once after you have kicked the gen they got to 50% before coming back to even stop the regression...I don't see ANY survivor doing that. Do you know why? Because it is ABSURD! They can't get their head out of their @$$ to realize that camping/tunneling are two major tools on a killers arsenal. It is like pallets for survivors. Imagine if Killers ganged up and called survivors out for daring to drop a pallet...and when the survivors say that dropping pallets is a legit strategy all the killers laugh and say "yeah, I am tired of hearing that it's a legit strat arguement.." Truth is truth, no one calls un-sportsmanship on a defensive line in football for running a blitz...sometimes thats what you do, who cares if it isn't "fun" for the QB when they are rushed like that. STOP COMPLAINING ABOUT PEOPLE PLAYING WITHIN THE RULES! Gripe when they cheat. Often times I get bawled out by survivors for daring to bring an iridescent addon while they themselves have a SA and two BNPs. They don't understand...
The other truth is this, I have TRIED so so SO hard to play by these "survivor rules" and it puts me at a disadvantage. That causes me to lose. I would keep doing it if you know, I got thanked for that once in a while. you know what happens 99% of the time? You guessed it, tbags at the exit gates and EZ BABY killer in the post game....or someone once told me "I would tell you to ######### but I bet you would be bad at that too..." But....if I kill everyone by, you know....actually playing efficiently, then I get called a trash killer...camper...tunneler. So I get abused in the end NO MATTER WHAT I DO...so I may as well get abused for winning than made fun of for following your absurd survivor rules. Until the survivor community bands together and show ANYTHING other than abuse for their killers...you LITERALLY give me NO reason to not camp and tunnel when it makes sense for me to do so. Maybe, next time you DO escape a killer and they were playing by your rules, you won't tbag them and clicky them and gloat...its a lack of grace in winning that makes killers NOT care about your fun, because you are CERTAINLY looking out for yours, and mostly at the humiliation of the killer.
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@Freudentrauma said:
The first thing which I think is wrong is calling it the "Survivor's rule book". Stuff like not tunneling etc. is more like a gentleman agreement, that developed within the game by both sides, or by players in general. Just take a look at many killer main streamers e.g. who refuse to camp and tunnel etc. Of course it focuse more on the killer because, they are the power role in the game compared to a single survivor.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2071559#Comment_2071559
Well survivors have a third person POV and their natural FOV isn't that narrow. While it's true they can easily make up withit, besides beeing able seeing over loops is much more beneficial than checking sides. Especially if there is still enough space.
I think you and several others here missed the ultimate point. The killer rulebook I am mentioning here is tongue and cheek overkill sarcasm. As I said, in furthering the point I am making...is the root of my complain here...I sum it up in the end. Even when I play by these gentleman's agreements I am HORRIBLY abused which isn't re-enforcing a positive reason for killers to behave according to these rules. As I don't play survivor I am only able to comment from my side of things, but I am ASKING survivors to explain the logic of demanding we follow those rules here...I am not saying killers don't seem to have made up rule books too...in fact I even said THAT...like with Gen rush complaining.
Also, it isn't an attempt to divide...I am legit trying to understand where the logic actually is stemming from...to see if anyone that supports the other side can actually make that square...it is part of a debate...it is what allows people to find common ground...please note I didn't say "All survivors suck and are stupid and are wrong and I am the only dude in the world that is right..." That to me is divisive...Ahem...Clevite...you I guess would pretend that chasms don't exist...when I feel that debate is needed.
Am I a little salty from a night of being berated over and over and over? Yes. Did I throw insults directed at anyone? No. Thanks for adding your two cents into the conversation, but I don't think you are interpreting my tone or goals here the way they were intended. Maybe this post will cut through the mist a bit.
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@SammiieK1991 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/239338/so-let-us-make-a-killer-version-of-a-rule-book
Hookers..... sounds mature that. Well done 😂
lol...you get me...
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I swear though...I am a killer main and ALL I hear is..."you tunneled me you trash killer!" all the time...so today...to be different...I played by their rules...just to see if they gained an iota of respect...no...when you put yourself at a deliberate disadvantage...they suddenly act like they are HOT $H!T and HARD tbag/point constant BM....and I am thinking to myself...if you treat people like this, you are TEACHING killers that they legit have NO reason to play by your little made up rules....I agree, there is toxicity on both sides but more and more the toxic people are making it so the only way to defend yourself is to play with EVERY advantage you can...
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@alaenyia said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1721185#Comment_1721185
Well 1st I am a solo player and have never once played in a 4 man team. I do occasionally play with my sister and we form a 2 person group but that is my max. 2nd in released statistics under 10% of matches have a 4 man SWF, so this narrative that squads of survivors are attacking killers is just not all that common. And a negative behavior of another type or from another group does not negate the negative behavior being discussed in this thread. So even if you dislike SWF, that does not make tunneling ok. It is a separate issue that may also need dealt with.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/JW6H3W8JOZL2/2020-11-01.jpg
I've never seen this data before, its not hosted on DBD site so far as I can tell...and my point is not to say that there is just bad behavior on both sides...it is to say that I...personally...will hand out a load of cheese to ANY group that is obviously cheesing me. I don't act first, or assume it...but when you load in to the match and see 4 players with the same TTV tags...its pretty much a certainty they are in comms. Again, I don't cheese them unless they are obviously up my butt when I am trying to hook someone, before they could even know where they were...its just real obvious when they have super organized groups...
to clarify...I am speaking as a killer main...I am throwing my 2 cents in saying that I have to cheese a LOT because I KEEP running into this problem...but I don't draw first blood...but it is usually THOSE same people who are obviously in an organized SWF group that chew me out in game, and I imagine they are usually the type to come and post a similar complaint here...I am ADDING to the convo...that in while we are talking about the un-sportsman like behavior of tunneling and camping...that maybe we add SWF SEAL teams too..because THEN it's fair...its not "TEAR DOWN THE KILLER" It changes into "make the game more fun for all sides" and that to me seems to make more sense...this original post would paint a picture that the killers are just A$$Hats that play to ruin someone's day and that there isn't just as bad behaviors coming from the survivor camp too...you can't presume to want to fix one side without fixing the other, could you?
Surely you don't actually think that my solution to this was going to be to say one side is acting bad, so the other side is justified, did you? I am pointing out that the ENTIRE side...NOT JUST KILLERS does have problems with un-sportsment like conduct, and...gee...wouldn't it be nice if we could get fixes for all sides and stop calling out for fixes on JUST ONE side?????
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@alaenyia said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1721062#Comment_1721062
This game has been killer-sided for quite some time, nearly all changes that have occurred over the last year were pro-killer. Survivors have gotten every perk and add-on nerfed into oblivion. Some medkits aren't even good for a single heal, toolboxes are useless, "insta" heal takes 16 seconds (not very insta), most pallets are now unsafe, a bunch of openings have been turned into breakaway doors blocking passages (and survivors have no way to break one, of course).
It is not bad play on the part of the survivor being tunneled, they have no way of out playing a killer standing there to down them again. Tunneling takes no skill it is an easy play for a lazy player. There should be an opportunity for the fresh offhook to move away from the hook. And being able to take one extra hit is not like a game ender, I have had BT plenty of times and just been run down by a determined tunneler. So if they are set on playing super toxic, the option is still there.
So...like to my point earlier...is it not also unfair and unsportman like for so many of these survivor groups to run around in groups of 4 that are all super connected on comms? The game specifically has no in game communication because it wasn't balanced on the survivors being able to communicate info like a SEAL team...without making a sound...they become insanely efficient, and it is a cheese tactic. When I am getting cheesed I will happily give the low blow man...I hate when Survivors don't even consider that their normal method of play on comms in insanely unbalancing and then they have the nerve to gripe about a killer who is sick of that deciding to just END one of you once and for all? It's not what I want to do...but also...right now...I am like at Rank 15 and of my last 5 matches, I didn't go up against ANYONE that was lower rank than 8....lol....no balance on skill there at all...I'm not the best killer...I try to play nice and It keeps me losing when I get to 15...so once in a while I just think it's nice to ruin someone else's gameplay as much as they CONSISTENTLY mess up and ruin mine...because of comms...
Just saying...don't bring up camping and tunneling if you don't at the same time admonish the survivors for all the toxic cheese things THEY do...because you aren't going to gain the moral high ground if your own nest isn't clean...survivors aren't trying to stop the comms...so killers don't need to stop doing what they need to do...that is life...
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@Chinanumawaaan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1721100#Comment_1721100
Bro at the highest level of this game SURVIVOR mains say survivors are too overpowered. Just because people like you are butt hurt that you got outplayed and refuse to balls up and adapt. The sense of entitlement survivor mains are the same kids who got participation awards for coming last. Stop being an underachiever and learn to overcome challenges instead of crying about it. In the state that the game is, a killer main is a very rare thing I can assure you of that and you know what? Maybe thats why you get tunneled and camped, they cant be ######### investing time into getting clapped every game or abused for slaughtering lil brain survivors.
Amen!
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I can say very clearly...that I don't camp a survivor I hook....UNLESS the survivors who are FREQUENTLY on comms...try doing SEAL team stuff and are rushing my ass before I even hook them...at that point, they are too bold, and I am not going to deliberately walk away...because the entire reason to do so is in the shadows just a few steps away...or the survivors are up my butt...If you think something needs to be done about camping, its the only defense I have as a killer when they do this (More than half the time when you hit rank 15 too)....I am not going to walk away and pretend I don't see you right there...I have had people gripe me out in chat for camping when they are all CLEARLY on comms which is an unfair advantage that was not really built into the balance of the game....its cheese tactics....just like face camping is...its dirty pool, but when people act all pissed off because I didn't "play to the strategy that they trained themselves to handle" it really pisses ME off. If you can't adapt your strategy then you have a problem. Some of these SEAL team coms using A holes that I have to run into...I will GLADLY cheese victory just even if it is to kill ONE of these people to send them a message...if YOU want to cheese tactic...then so will I....if you play with sportsmanship....then so will I...PERIOD....
I honestly think RANKED matches should force survivors to work with random people every time to prevent that comms SEAL teams that turn the game into JUST as unenjoyable pile of crap as it is to be hooked and camped...so people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones man...I have seen JUST as much cheese coming from the survivors and you all get butthurt when we throw a little cheese back your way...