loki1337
loki1337
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@thisislastyearsmodel said:
If you make pallets reusable high ranked survivors will destroy M1 killers even more than they already do. No, thanks.
It's about the majority of survivors - people who are bad at running from killer and can't play without the Windows of Opportunity perk. In most cases, such survivors fall in 10-20 seconds at best 30-40. Pro survivors in any conditions will be good, but there are few of them. We're talking about average and weak survivors.
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@dbdthegame said:
Well, yes. It comes with having as much content as DBD.
I don't know what you're getting at
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@blithes said:
the amount of times that i (and many of my friends) have been hit from behind walls, trees, rocks, or shot through walls/buildings is kinda insane. on the flip side, many things don't hit, when i really believe they should. i am well aware that some killers might need a little help and im not saying make the hitboxes insanely small but its SO hard to want to keep when you are being hit from things that don't connect at all.
i'm unsure as to whether this is in regard to survivor hitbox or various killer hitboxes but the inconsistency with all of it is crazy., and i'm aware that the survivor hitbox is a cylinder that protrudes out the back but it shouldn't mean that people are getting hit from how they currently are. i think the two biggest culprits of this are huntress, wesker, and maybe even oni?
huntress you can literally get hit from behind walls, behind rocks, behind trees, quite literally behind any form of blocking, where it just blatantly misses. wesker, you will be all the way through a window or over a pallet and somehow he can just pull you back over to the other side??? and maybe i'm just a bit dumb and its an oni mechanic where he can hit you when he's not even facing you but i think its a bit silly.
i'm well aware weskers hitbox was changed in the past and then reverted and i believe huntress' was too, but maybe look into changing how the survivor hitbox works? i'm also well aware that it is a latency thing but this happens to me and all of my friends who's connection to the server pretty good
for example: this hit me and i went down because of it, i just think this is a little ridiculous???
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/BY81G0A5BC13/capture-png.png
A lot of killers will become much weaker because of this. For example blight, hilly billy and all other killers will become much weaker because the lunge will be smaller, less chance to hit at the board, less chance to hit at the window and so on. This is a major change that will not benefit the game and is not needed in the game.
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@E4GLE said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3487604#Comment_3487604
I get it, you're a nurse player and you love that she has always been SS tier and very easy to get wins. But her kit is old and should be changed. Nurse completely ignores the common dbd chase mechanics of all other killers. Even after the updates and nerfs, she is still at the very top of killer rankings. My time playing Nurse has been too easy and too forgiving. "She is only good in good hands" is just wrong nowadays. Once you understand her simple kit and are even just average, you will still perform better than most killers. She should be reworked.
For some reason I don't see a 70% winrate in the nurse.... a lot of killers have a much higher winrate than a nurse. At low mmr the nurse is really too strong, but at high mmr you will find that all survivors are quietly running 2-3 generators away from you. Why is that? It's not enough to just learn how to use the ability. You need to predict and read your opponent, dose the distance of each blink, play off the fake actions of survivors and much more. At first when I first learned to use the nurse ability I also thought it was too strong, that but then I realized it wasn't. Nurse has a speed of 3.8 and you must always use the ability and you must do it correctly and with knowledge of what you are doing. Who cares if nurse is on top of the rankings? There will always be someone who is the strongest and at the top of the rankings and every such killer needs to be fixed? Only windows and boards don't work against the nurse, if all you can do as a survivor is drop boards and jump into windows, the nurse is really too strong for you.
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@nars said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/384099/nurse
This would absolutely gut nurse. Her power would be completely useless without 3 blinks, and be far too punishing for its power.
Nurse isnt even overpowered. That stopped being the case in 6.5.0, like 5 months ago. She has counterplay and is arguable (ARGUABLY) weaker than blight.
In fact, only bad players for nurse need 3 blinks to play well for her. With 2 blinks you just need to have experience with the game and that will be enough. Currently the nurse has an addon that adds an extra blink but it makes the cooldown longer than 9 seconds which is too long for a nurse. Anyway she will always be strong in good hands and weak in bad hands.
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@GrimReaperJr1232 said:
Let me tell you why that won't end well.
A nurse will charge at you like a bull as a regular killer. You'll have to drop a pallet or vault a window. She'll blink through (since she's not going through a solid wall), and you'll get hit with 0 counterplay
Probably because she can teleport from her will not help boards and windows?) The principle of the game against her is completely different, experienced players know and know it, and you can only ask that the developers fixed the killer against which you are difficult to run.
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@E4GLE said:
Hello. I am here to suggest a simple Nurse change that can finally make her not super overpowered anymore.
Here is the change:
Nurse can no longer blink through walls, but nurse now has default killer movement speed.
This change will no longer make her an SS tier killer, but still maybe an A+ tier killer and make her not completely reliant on her power to get hits.
Thank you for your time.
Learn how to play against the nurse. You suggest just destroying her abilities just because you can't run away from her. Nurse is not an all-powerful killer, she is good ONLY in good hands. Trust me, I have 66P on nurse, and 90% of the nurse players you meet will be no problem for you if you know how to run away from her at least a little bit. It takes a lot of experience to really cool playing as a nurse, just like for any other S-A tier killer.
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@THE_Crazy_Hyena said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3486859#Comment_3486859
You can indeed enjoy the game if you simply relax and have fun while playing. The attached screenshot is from a game vs. SWF's (the Jeff, Zarina and Leon were teamed up), and I play in fairly high MMR (grades don't matter). I didn't camp them at all, allowed them to get saves, and going for a full 12-hook game. It was close though, as they got one exit open. I had downed the Jeff, and the Nea was hanging back in the exit, teabagging furiously. Until I realized she wasn't far enough out, so I downed her and brought her to a nearby hook. Guess that was instant karma after all.
Anyways, I brought this game up because I went from playing survivor that night, getting tunneled and camped a lot, and to prove a point that killers don't have to sweat their balls off to win games. Try to have fun once in a while. It really helps.
I should also add that I did not 3-gen them, even as the Skull Merchant. That's just a dirty way of winning. I like close games where it feels like you are winning fair and square, or losing in the same way. As long as the game feels close, like a tug of war between both sides. It feels so much more rewarding getting a good game that way, and not one that is determined 10 seconds after the game is started.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/EI8KR5ZNKA3D/sm-win.jpg
To the moderators: I remembered to censor the names of the survivors this time 😅
I think it's unfair to play games where the first generator is started in 30 seconds and all subsequent ones in 40-50 seconds. It's called genrush and it's very unfair to the killer. I have games like yours and I genuinely get high from them) But such games are too rare, unfortunately.... Most survivors tend to get all the genrush in 3-4 minutes and run away. And so most killers tend to take 1-2 survivors out of the game as quickly as possible to even the playing field. I often have to play dirty because survivors also play dirty and I can't lose 9/10 games because of genrush. Dirty play begets dirty play, corruption begets corruption, violence begets violence. Basically in our game all the problems boil down to: genrush, camping, tunneling, playing from the triangle. I'm trying to convey to players who only want to destroy tunneling, or some other nasty strategy, that you can't do that. The balance of the game should strive for an equation, because in an equation everything is EQUALized and brought to EQUALITY. If we want to get rid of annoying strategies, we need to separate the two parts of the equation: the survivor part and the killer part. Then the balance will remain, but there will be no annoying strategies! Dbd is not the real world and in it you can eliminate foul play and injustice, that's what I'm striving for, I think I'm not the only one who doesn't like it when I'm tunneled the whole game, or genrashat in 4 minutes. This should not be tolerated, because in our lives and so much bad and at least in our favorite game we need to relax.
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@Squippit said:
What if, upon coming off the hook, for the duration of basekit borrowed time, you were invisible to the killer and have no collision. You're like demanifested Sadako and MORE invisible than cloaked Wraith, temporarily. You can't use it offensively, but you're all but guaranteed a chance to go off and hide. Call it Entity's Shroud or something. Conspicuous actions break it. If you still wanna get heals under hook or whatever, you're still visible to your allies, but the killer can't see you or aura read you. Maybe no scratchies or blood otherwise it kind of defeats the point of being temporarily untrackable. No more tunneling off hook, killer goes after your unhooker, finds someone else, or if you failed to hide well and stabilize, you're fair game again with no valid cries of not having a chance to play. Maybe we wouldn't even need anti tunneling perks like DS/Off The Record/DH anymore. Preferably this comes alongside some changes to killers so people don't feel they NEED to tunnel alongside 4 slowdown perks to have a chance at winning as well. Am I being too optimistic? Would this not work, if it were possible for Behavior's coders to execute in game?
Most killer tunnel out of genrush. Of course you can remove tunneling and camping, but if genrush remains in the game, killers will become too weak against the survivor party. In that case, you need to completely remove genrush from the game and only then you can remove tunneling and camping from the game. It's like an equation. You can't remove something from one side without removing it from the other. You can't get rid of an interfering denominator in a fractional equation without dividing BOTH sides of the equation.
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Most assassins tunnel out of genrush. Of course you can remove tunneling and camping, but if genrush remains in the game, killers will become too weak against the survivor party. In that case, you need to completely remove genrush from the game and only then you can remove tunneling and camping from the game. It's like an equation. You can't remove something from one side without removing it from the other. You can't get rid of an interfering denominator in a fractional equation without dividing BOTH sides of the equation.
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@Annso_x said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3486859#Comment_3486859
I really don't mean to sound rude but I highly doubt you're going against 4ppl swf 9 games out of 10. Also, killers camp and tunnel regardless of MMR and it's kinda weird that you believe they only do it at high MMR because there's only swf while also believing you're in high MMR as a solo survivor. Solo survivors in high MMR is really not that uncommon, neither is facecamping and tunneling in low MMR.
And again, killers wouldn't stop tunneling if swf stopped existing, especially in high MMR where it's just people playing sweaty on both sides and it would remain the most efficient strategy.
(also I'm not surprised you made an entire post suggesting we delete swf because tunneling is bad only to blame genrush for everything, surely killers have no part of responsibility for how they behave and it's all the survivors' fault)
Killers want to win too and use various tactics to do so. But camping and tunneling is very toxic and unpleasant, as is playing from the triangle. I'd be happy if these things were removed from the game, but you can't do that without removing genrush from the game completely. At high mmp I very rarely encounter solo survivors and of course in that case I spend the game quietly and without toxic stuff. Too many survivors play in packs and genrush, if killers stop tunneling and camping they will just have a winrate of 10%. Bhvr are against camping and tunneling, but you have to realize that killers do it for a reason. You can't just remove genrush and leave tunneling and camping, because some killers will still use it. Likewise, you can't remove tunneling and camping from the game without removing the genrush, otherwise survivors will destroy killers. It is necessary to remove both genrush and tunneling and camping. Only then will the game finally have 90% less toxic behavior, sweaty matches and tedious strategies. You can remove genrush by making the minimum time to repair the generator 70-80 seconds, even if the survivors have all perks for genrush. You can remove tunneling and camping by inventing different penalties for these actions. It is also possible to weaken S tir killers as they are aimed at fighting genrash and without genrash will not be needed so strong. This is my opinion, but it is not unfounded. I play a lot of high mmr and know what I'm talking about. When you play 20 games in a row and the game script doesn't change, continuing to be toxic and annoying, it gets annoying. 17/20 games - camping + tunneling in response to genrush + tea bagging.
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@Annso_x said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3486841#Comment_3486841
That's a silly argument. Everyone plays to win, but not everyone would sacrifice their fun to do so. I try my best to win but I'd rather lose a game fair and square instead of doing things I find boring and unfun to ensure I win. I can do gens efficiently without bringing a BNP, I can play killer at the best of my abilities without tunneling at 5gens, and I don't feel the need to bring meta builds to give me better chances.
Lile, either you just want to win in which case complaining about "but I don't want to sweat to win" is silly and what you're asking for is basically being able to consistently win without effort, aka you just want easy wins and you shouldn't be playing a multiplayer game, or you'd rather enjoy your games in which case absolutely no one is forcing you to sweat beyond what you find fun to secure a win.
I want to enjoy the game. Both as a solo survivor and as a killer. But killers tunnel and camp and I myself have to, as I prefer to win and not see survivors in the gate. Playing in the usual scenario against a party of survivors I face my absolute helplessness, as I just genrashat and I at most make -1 trying hard. That's why ONLY tunneling and camping works against party survivors and 9/10 games I have against them. And for a survivor I also face tunneling because very few people play for solo survivors at high mmp. Genrash ruins the game for both killer and all survivors....
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@GoofyGooberRock said:
It just makes the game less fun for everyone, especially for the person that is just stuck on hook
had a game with Micheal Myers who would just camp a hook of a person and wait for someone to come save them only to just down the person trying to save them cause he goes into tier 3
like it's so boring for a killer to do that like why do killers even do that? I play killer at times and I find it boring just to stick around a hook I like the chase I like chasing and doing things not just waiting around until everyone finishes gen and get out because I want a guaranteed death
so to make the game more entertaining for everyone just let the people jump off the hook if a killer just wants to be boring and sure just don't allow them to do it when it's end game
Most killers only camp if they get a party of survivors against them. At high mmp 99% of survivor parties play and that's why you see camping so often there. I think we should remove the ability to camp and make tunneling ineffective, but only if we remove genrush from the game completely. That is, any generator is started at a rate of at least 80 seconds, no matter how many survivors. Then there would really be chases
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@Annso_x said:
It's normal to encounter better teams in high MMR, no one is forcing killers to camp & tunnel in retaliation and it's normal that survivors encounter sweaty killers in high MMR too (SWF or not).
If you don't like those strategies don't use them, if you want to win go ahead but don't complain about having to sweat because having to sweat to win in high MMR is normal in every game ever, against people with comms or not.
SWF aren't forcing you to use those strategies, if you played normally and lost against them you wouldn't encounter them half as much. You decide to tunnel and camp because you'd rather win most games and keep going up in MMR (and having to sweat even more) than just play as you like.
Also the answer to the "SWF are too strong in comparison to solo q" problem is to buff solo q to lessen the gap between them, not to forbid people from playing with their friends.
Finally, 4ppl SWF are the least common survivor combination killers encounter and the majority of killers would not stop camping and tunneling if they didn't exist anymore. They would only stop doing that if there was an even easier way to win.
Killers don't go against 4ppl organized swf nearly as much as they say they do, it's just the boogeyman they blame for losing and use an an excuse to use the "nasty" strategies. Take swfs away and they'll just blame something else.
You're suggesting we don't play to win. In that case, you can at least stand afk, but most people play to win. So everything I said above makes sense
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@UndeddJester said:
That's a big wall of text my dude. To sum up a TLDR: -
- SWFs survive a lot more often than solo queue because of the comms advantage. This means higher MMR means more SWFs.
- As MMR goes up, this means better skilled killers are always playing vs. Groups with comms that are faster at everything, so now has to start using their group altruism against them by tunneling and camping.
- Over time this translates to all survivors are constantly going up against tunneling, camping Nurse's and alike, because anything other than that means the killer loses more often than not.
- SWFs ruin the game for all by having comms tipping the balance heavily in Survivor favour, forcing killers to use the most effective and nasty strategies to keep up.
- To prevent this, instead of allowing 4 man highly organised SWFs in queue, have each group limited to 2 players. You still can play with your friends, but in a limited capacity. This means no team has perfect comms, so the killers don't have to rely on camping and tunneling to remain effective, and thus makes the game far more balanced and fun for everyone.
(Do correct me if I got anything wrong)
That's right!
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@Dream_Whisper said:
I don't know about that, I think regular SWF is fine; just that perks stacking, maps in general, solid solo queue buffs ro ensure that Survivors are as coordination as swf would be much more fair. Same can be said for weak killers that are not as fast, Lethal, and on par with the likes of Nurse, Spirit, Blight, etc.
The game needs more Survivors main objectives to do, in order to be able escape; which gives killers enough time to do hooks more then kills. It can be as simple as...
Survivors needs to find Genators's parts to get a particular Genator working and be able to repair it. Killer's can be balanced in which they need to spread their targets more then tunneling the same target, as it helps with basekit gen slowdown/regression of some kind. One idea I like to see. If give killers the ability to take away progress/regress complete Genator after a hook Milestone. Stuff like this, thar way; killers are not obligated to tunnel the same one survivor and need to play "fair" for them to survive longer. The killer can reward by seeking different survivor with slowdown per unique survivor; and get punished with faster gen repair speed per hooking the same guy.
There needs be alot of basekit changes, to the basekit for killers and survivors; to balanced the not so fun mechanics of dbd. Right now, Survivors and Killer will do the most unfun things as much as much as possible, so that they win efficiency this way. There needs to be a changes to make wins efficiency more fun for both sides. So far I have not seen a grand gameplay changes thar would be enough to satisfy both sides; beside that one DC Bots implementation, which might help with the headaches of adept achievement/challenges aspects being completed destroyed by one player's action.
You're probably right. We need to either remove party survivors from the game, or create new mechanics that slow down the repair of party survivor generators and strengthen weak killers.
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@CatnipLove said:
Do you think that would stop players from tunneling? I think tunneling will always be prevalent as it's the easiest way to win. The only thing that will stop it is something that really impedes the killer's ability to do it.
I'm not a fan of framing one side as being forced to do anything. In most situations players have automony in how they choose to play. Killers will often tunnel in all manner of circumstances. Even if 5 minutes goes past and no gens are done yet. They are plenty of scenario's where tunneling becomes necessary, but a lot of it is just killers taking the easiest path to victory.
I give credit to killers who are good enough at the game to hook everybody 3 times before the match ends. It's a tall order. I'd love to see something like the game making it necessary to hook different survivors, but reducing hook states to two. Something like that. That way the game stops killers tunneling but reduces the amount of work they need to do in order to win.
I'm desperately waiting to see the new gamemode they are working on. I hope it's so much better that it becomes the primary mode.
You can also weaken the killers tunneling. After all, if there is no party in tunneling there is no need. This would literally take toxic behavior out of the game.
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You're absolutely right! Alternatively, you could remove the party of 4 survivors, since random survivors don't genrush at the same rate as a party. Or you could make a bigger penalty for fixing a generator with multiple survivors. There are a lot of options. Killers tunnel and camp for a reason, killers are forced to do this by parti genrush. Now especially at high mmr this is a real problem and it must be solved.
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@Dream_Whisper said:
I don't know about that, I think regular SWF is fine; just that perks stacking, maps in general, solid solo queue buffs ro ensure that Survivors are as coordination as swf would be much more fair. Same can be said for weak killers that are not as fast, Lethal, and on par with the likes of Nurse, Spirit, Blight, etc.
The game needs more Survivors main objectives to do, in order to be able escape; which gives killers enough time to do hooks more then kills. It can be as simple as...
Survivors needs to find Genators's parts to get a particular Genator working and be able to repair it. Killer's can be balanced in which they need to spread their targets more then tunneling the same target, as it helps with basekit gen slowdown/regression of some kind. One idea I like to see. If give killers the ability to take away progress/regress complete Genator after a hook Milestone. Stuff like this, thar way; killers are not obligated to tunnel the same one survivor and need to play "fair" for them to survive longer. The killer can reward by seeking different survivor with slowdown per unique survivor; and get punished with faster gen repair speed per hooking the same guy.
There needs be alot of basekit changes, to the basekit for killers and survivors; to balanced the not so fun mechanics of dbd. Right now, Survivors and Killer will do the most unfun things as much as much as possible, so that they win efficiency this way. There needs to be a changes to make wins efficiency more fun for both sides. So far I have not seen a grand gameplay changes thar would be enough to satisfy both sides; beside that one DC Bots implementation, which might help with the headaches of adept achievement/challenges aspects being completed destroyed by one player's action.
You're probably right. We need to either remove survivors party from the game, or create new mechanics to slow down the repair of survivors party generators and strengthen weak killers
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@JdoHybrid428 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/383909/party-players-problem
That's actually a descent direction to deal with people using outside voice communications why playing dbd.
Yes
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@KateMain86 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3485679#Comment_3485679
The most effective way to deal with "gen rushing" is simply to patrol gens and not commit to extended chases. A killer eliminating a survivor fast is much more of a match changing thing in favor of the killer than 3 survivors completing 1 generator. Gens do not repair faster as survivors are eliminated. Survivors cannot do anything, including repair generators at any rate, in a way that turns the match in favor of them as much as tunneling does for the killer. Too often do matches end in hatch battles with only a couple gens completed.
You're going to have to start chasing the survivor anyway, and in the meantime the other survivors in the pack will finish the generators very quickly. It's impossible not to get into chases. In any case, the survivor pack always has information about where the killer is and what he is doing. If only it were as simple as you say.....
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@KateMain86 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3485643#Comment_3485643
If you have a suggestion for killers in light of my suggestion by all means share it or make a thread about it. I'm not against things being added for killer players to make the game more enjoyable for them. I am against things that make the survivor experience miserable and tunneling is one of those things. Tunneling is not "fair in the grand scope." It isn't fair at all.
Don't forget about gen rush by the survivor pack. tunneling and camping is the only way for a killer to counter this. I wrote about this in detail in my post