kakakaka
kakakaka
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- kakakaka
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@Condorloco_26 said:
No. Evening out any possible advantage the killer may have gained early in the match is not the way to balance this game.
That would just turn swf teams unbeatable.
when did i ever talk about evening? at this point im convinced half of you are just taking the piss
@twistedmonkey said:
No what should happen if the killer downs players to quickly and easily is they should be ranked away from them as they are obviously the better player. The PIP system and matchmaking are the issue here and that is what needs fixed.
I dont want the devs to reward less skilled players as it will also buff the best survivor players.
i agree with your stance on the pip system, not so much on the first part of your argument because i don't believe that to always be the case.
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@starkiller1286 said:
You are suggesting that evedyone gets a free toolbox increase if someone dies/dcs early I disagree since it could be abused. IE survuvors almost complete 1 or 2 gens coop then one can dc and give the other 3 survivors a permanent bonus to repair speed. Regardless if it works inverse to the number of gens left it still allows them to crank oht gens faster than they normally should. It can be used to boost someone to a higher rank, bully the killer with worse "gen rushing" not to mention perks that make chases harder or DS and blrrowed time which is a good deterrent for tunneling is a free escape during egc.
" im not talking about a huge comeback system i am not talking about something that is as worth as the player who just left, i am just talking about something that gives a slither of hope to the rest of the team"
literally the post above.
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@WolfPad06 said:
Which is why we need a much harsher punishmentfor DCs (which will come soon with Dedicated Servers). Griefing, sandbagging and throwing the game is also bannable.
If it is a legit DC where the player lost the connection accidentally, yeah it sucks but just move on to another game. It's like getting a bad map as killer, sometimes you just have to hold the L and move on.
And about 25% progression on gens, that is ludicrously big. I wouldn't even mess with gen times at all.
Your "comeback" pitty mechanic comes in the form of the hatch. Now it will spawn no matter how many gens have been completed.
good lord, it would really be a shame if i didnt specify that the example wasn't to be taken seriously would it? "i didnt put any time thinking about a proper number/comeback system so the example shouldnt be taken too serious", moving on.
why exactly survivors should "just take the L and move on" when you can prevent it, i am not talking again i feel like i am repeating my self way too often and if anyone reads this please take a moment to read every single reply before replying to me but im pretty sure this is the second or third time i say that im not talking about a huge comeback system i am not talking about something that is as worth as the player who just left, i am just talking about something that gives a slither of hope to the rest of the team, the hatch is not a proper argument, it doesn't make you pip, and with 3 players you'd need 4 generators repared, if you have 5 left like in the example i am talking about in this thread, well good luck with that, also the hatch opens when only 1 player is left so you'd have to bring a purple key and we all know how often those are brought (for a good reason).
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@WolfPad06 said:
This is the perfect example on how Survivor players think on an individual basis, and not as a team (as intended).
If you play survivor, you have to understand you are playing as part of a TEAM. If someone on the team does poorly, or DCs, they will screw up everyone else. This is why most people prefer SWF, because you eliminate the possibility of random people trolling or throwing the game on purpose.
This is also where all the problems with balance stem from. The survivors are being balanced with the killers on a ONE ON ONE basis, which means if all 4 survivors are competent the killer will get destroyed.
Survivors should be granted boons for keeping each other alive and helping one another, not the opposite.
If you don't want others impacting the outcome of your game, play killer. Or another game, I heard Civ 5 is pretty good.
how so? how am i not thinking as a team, i am not talking about a drastic comeback system that does as much job as a whole player would i'm talking about a very specific occurrence that often happens which we have no power over.
yeah, survivors should and ARE granted boons for keeping eachother alive by keeping them alive, what i am talking about is when someone insta dcs after getting downed, what are survivors supposed to do? just lose? is it that much of a problem if they'd get faster progression? i mean, you make a whole argument about how this is an example on how "survivor players think on an individual basis" but with this particular occurence the only player which is thinking on an individual basis is the one leaving, not the team which will suffer from his egotistical actions.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/581631#Comment_581631
"i did reply what i think about it and i am discussing about a comeback mechanic for survivors so you saying that even killers should have one is something for another thread, in this thread i am talking about a comeback mechanic for survivors anything else is not relevant"
The thing is that such a mechanic affects both sides even if it is intended for one side, so IMO the possibility of such a system being made for both sides is still relevant to this discussion and should be discussed.
i do not agree, while your opinion is valid and you might want to discuss that you're still going offtopic, the title is clear, that is the main focus, the replies i have gotten have got nothing to do with what i was trying to discuss, i actually hoped for someone to take the topic into consideration and agree/disagree/come up with some solution, i mean yeah i understand that you as or as not a killer player might feel in some cases you should have a comeback mechanic if "...." happens, but really this thread isnt about comeback mechanics in general, it's about a comeback mechanic in a specific situation where 99% of the times survivors just hopelessly lose without a saying, for example say you get genrushed, say all the stars are aligning against you as a killer and you're just having a terrible game, sometimes, is it that unusual that sometimes you still manage to get some points/get a few kills? i'm just saying, it's not completely hopeless as it is for survivors after an early kill which is completely game over, also i'll repeat myself, there is nothing that can be done for that to be prevented while as killers you still have assets, 2 examples are ruin which slow down a little the gen rushing and for example non subpar killers like nurse and spirit that can quickly check generators, still i am not trying to discuss this.
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@ArecBalrin said:
I didn't say Bloodlust doesn't make chases easier, I don't know why you're responding as if that is what I said. The first thing you mentioned after bringing up Bloodlust was 'infinite looping', which I'm not entirely sure from the words that followed that you understood what is meant by 'infinite looping'.
Bloodlust was introduced to deal with pallet-looping, but the devs didn't even know what pallet-looping was. It should never have been introduced. It makes chases awful for newer survivor players, but does nothing against actual looping; especially actual infinite loops.
Also please don't give me opinions I don't have. I am not against a comeback mechanic, but pointing out that they already exist and that you showed no concern for how your suggestion would affect killers or included any equivalent mechanic for them. Most of your post does this, gives me views I don't have an haven't expressed, so I'm not going to straighten out each instance of it, because there's no way of knowing you won't infer false-beliefs from that too.
bloodlust does help with looping maybe not so much with excessively safe loops but you're not supposed to stay on 1 survivor for that and as there are safe spots for survivors there are also dangerous spots for survivors to be, still you saying that "pallet looping should have never been introduced" is 100% just you venting your frustration in the wrong thread, i honestly do not care if you feel that way it's completely your opinion which i am not going to get into a debate about.
i asked you in my response to you to list which come back mechanics survivors have in this scenario and you didn't list any so what am i supposed to believe here? i understood that you were saying that killers should equally have something if survivors do get that comeback mechanic but i did reply what i think about it and i am discussing about a comeback mechanic for survivors so you saying that even killers should have one is something for another thread, in this thread i am talking about a comeback mechanic for survivors anything else is not relevant, also i did write a maybe with a question mark after i kind of described what sort of impression you gave me, dont take it to heart.
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@ArecBalrin said:
Bloodlust does not do that.
Survivors already have plentiful 'rubber-banding' options and 2nd-chances.
Where is your counter-factual suggestion for killers where we get an equivalent way of making a comback when 3 generators pop 90 seconds after the match begins?
bloodlust makes chases why easier than they were when it wasn't in place, it's a fact, there shouldnt be a discussion about this, you get movement speed up to 2 levels after chasing a survivor for 15 seconds.
such as? care to list what survivors have once they get an early kill with 5 generators up? are you going to tell me now that after an early kill most survivors are still going to do 5 generators and escape? please.
the problem with that is that you can stop that while we cannot, if someone dcs it is instant, there is nothing we can do about it, if someone purposely dies on his second hook because he is tilted again, we can't do anything to prevent that, also why are you so against a comeback mechanic? it's only fair that after an early kill with a set amount of gens up (as i specified the comeback mechanic should scale with the amount of generators up) survivors get a second chance, i do not have the stats but by personal experience 99% of the times the killer gets an extremely early kill it's just game over for the survivors, this obviously doesnt happen as often at higher ranks but that really doesn't matter because it wouldn't involve them anyways.
also genrushing is a completely different argument, i see you're someone that thinks that genrushing is a problem maybe? that's what i gather which is ok, everyone is entitled to their opinion but by bringing that into this you're kind of drifting away of the main topic.
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@George_Soros said:
I'm with you on that, but it will only happen when dedicated servers will be live. Until then: play SWF, or just hope your fellow survivors are not DC chickens.
that is also a top priority that is taking way too long to ship
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@George_Soros said:
@kakakaka ok, I summarize it as short as possible: Nurse is a threat. If she finds you, you're bound to go down sooner or later. That's how it should be in a 4v1 game.
you're actively ignoring every single point i made which you should try to confute instead if you think they're wrong.
the point you made could be easily said about every single killer because even the worst killer is able to down a survivor eventually, i still stand by the fact that addons make the nurse way too powerful, thanks for nothing.
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@George_Soros said:
@kakakaka first, please don't go too far with bellicose approach ("stupid non arguments" and so on), I don't think screaming at each other gets us anywhere. Thanks.
As for pallet looping, the worst thing about it is not how "annoying" it is (maybe I shouldn't have used that word), but how stupid the mechanic itself is. DBD is supposed to be a game where normal humans are being chased by a semi-supernatural, relentless killer. The fact that you can be more effective as a survivor if you keep running around the same object for a long time turns the whole game into a circus. Many players compared this to Benny Hill or Tom & Jerry, and with good reason. I know realism is not the most important thing to consider, but there should be some basic standards at least. How exactly is Legion larger than Jeff or Jane? And how on earth would any of us decide to run in circles if chased by a horrific killer, instead of doing the sane thing and run away from him; yes, in a straight line, as far as we can, and try to hide.
Also, there's a balance factor. A survivor doesn't need to be good to stall the killer for 3-4 gens. If I only make a few circles around every pallet, without any mind games, without any attempt to bait an attack, just drop them after a few rounds, I can still go from pallet to pallet and keep it up long enough for my team to get down to 1-2 gens. With minimal brainwork. I find it absurd. I understand most people prefer chases as opposed to stealth, but it makes a mockery of not just the killer but the whole atmosphere of the game.
And again: playing Clown, Pig, Wraith or any other bottom feeder on high ranks is a loss if survivors are actually doing their objectives when not chased. You can win, sure, but it's not up to you with these killers: no matter how hard you try, your success is reliant of them not doing their job.
And finally, you say, "if she is really good you're not going to outsmart her"... yeah, sure. Question is, can you outsmart her for long enough to buy time for your teammates to do objectives. Not at all impossible. I've done it, it has been done to me as well... sure, it requires more effort than looping. But that's the beauty of it.
why are you suddenly trying to bring realism into the game? saying things aren't supposed to be when they clearly are? pallet looping and stalling is a legitimate mechanic that takes skill, you realize right that it's much harder to pallet loop than it is for a killer to catch the pallet looper? and let's not even bring in the fact that killers have 0 ping hence hosting the game so you can't even stun them reliably because you have to factor in the lag.
you're taking a stance on pallet looping that is way too personal and you're making it such a big deal as if a survivor can pallet loop a killer for the whole game, which isn't true with mind games/bloodlust you can stop that, also pallet spawns aren't even as generous as they once were so i really dont see your point, are you trying to get a mediocre mechanic changed? what will you get out of removing pallet looping? let's take a second to analyze this game without pallet looping, the only objective would be doing gen and any second that you're not doing gens you're not being productive, every chase won't even require a single bloodlust stack to end in the killers favor (with most killers), seriously your stance is just biased and you fail to acknowledge a different pov, instead of belittling it, i seriously cannot take your opinion seriously, i still agree that some killers may need certain buffs but on topic, the nurse needs a nerf and survivors are not the problem, the only debatable problem i'd discuss is swf and tweak toolboxes a little to repair slower but the rest is fine and i won't even keep on arguing you with that, if you dislike pallet looping/chases as a mechanic i'd suggest you to change game because they're not going anywhere anytime soon, they've always been her and always will.
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@George_Soros said:
@kakakaka @adalesmo and others: you completely miss the point. First off, Nurse doesn't remove mindgames, in fact, mindgames are exactly what you need to outplay her (break line of sight and force her to guess incorrectly what direction you're running).
What's more important is that she's the only killer who can negate the dumbest and most annoying element of the game: mindless running around pallets for ages, which is only possible because of different collision size of killers and survivors. Horribly boring stuff. I don't want to get into the question whether it is intended or not, or whether it's exploiting or not. But the point is, with any killer, even if you play flawlessly, you can't get a 3-4K if survivors play correctly. Basically, your success depends on their mistakes, no matter how skilled you are. Whereas with Nurse, if you play well, you'll get results.
The problem is, most survivors are used to the dumb mechanics of looping and the large number of pallets. The moment they face a killer that needs a different approach, they give up. Which is sad: believe me, once you figure out the best way to outplay a Nurse, it's extremely satisfying. Not saying it's easy (hell no), but do you seriously want to play the same repetitive game of dancing around pallets forever?
completely wrong victim mentality, believe it or not, the element of distraction is actually intended in the game, and yeah i know, shocking news! pallets and loops are a steady part of the game which, prepare yourself, is intended to be "annoying" for the killer, well, annoying is very subjective isnt it, maybe at a survivor pov there are many "annoying" things a killer could do like, i dont know, one shotting huntress hatchets? oh but dont mind me im just going on a tangent afterall.
also which point am i missing? really because what i did by quoting your post is highlighting how stupid your non argument sounds like, what am i missing exactly there? it's not like you formulated some long post elaborating why you disagree with op.
mindgames occur against every single killer, believe it or not, and i am really tired of saying this but EVERY SINGLE killer has the advantage in a 1v1, and the longer that 1v1 goes the harder it gets for the survivor which is completely fine, i think they did a good job there, i think bloodlust is fine and balanced, but with nurse you dont even need that, while i agree that there is some sort of mindplay even against nurse, she can just blink, and tricking her into running in another direction isnt really the best kind of mindgame since she can have multiple blinks while still lunging right after a blink, if she is really good you're not going to outsmart her, you simply wont, maybe a bad one yeah but if you master her the gap between survivor-killer is just too huge, now i dont expect you to agree with me here as you sound like some sort of victim mentality killer who thinks the survivors have such a HUGE advantage, the fact that you say this "with any killer, even if you play flawlessly, you can't get a 3-4K if survivors play correctly." just highlights my point of your victimization, actually yeah, you can get a 4k with any killer at any rank believe it or not, i'll agree some killers are much worse than others and need a buff but nurse is just way too overpowered and has been for a while now.
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making ruin a non hex perk would be just too overpowered, they'd have to tune it down, the problem is mainly that toolboxes are too powerful with the right addons, but then again if we're going to nerf toolboxes we may as well nerf some of the killers stuff as well to lower the powercreep
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Okay this post is in response to my 500+ hours of gameplay, being a rank 1 killer AND a rank 1 survivor at some point, and my personal experience with trolls and bullies.
1) you already have bloodlust, which directly counters looping, you're saying that they loop you for 2 minutes straight, yeah right, bloodlust stacks 3 times each 15 seconds you're behind someone, and you're sitting there telling me survivors should be slower when they turn? killers are already faster than survivors by default, on top of that they get bloodlust to directly counter looping, ON TOP OF THAT looping is an actual core mechanic of the game, wasting the killer's time is a valuable objective to ensure the rest of the team can get the objective done.
2) no, teabagging is fine, what you can do is take that as a lesson to improve yourself and learn to ignore/giving too much thought to useless petty stuff, also slowing down the crouch could be a nerf to survivors.
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@George_Soros said:
Uh, you mean the only balanced killer in the game? Strongly disagree. Survivors can make a lot of mistakes and still win against any other killer. Not Nurse. Against her, you can win if you play smart. If you don't, you'll be obliterated. Fair is fair.
"Against her, you can win if you play smart."
i can't believe this isn't bait, yeah just play smart if you want to win, you realize this non argument applies to every single killer/survivor in the game right?
oh, as nurse, if you want to win, just play smart and you'll get a 4k, i mean yeah, it's not impossible to escape a nurse that's not what's being discussed, the fact that she can easily negate the survivor's only way to deal directly with the killer is the problem, not only it dumbs down the game because it removes the main thing, the mind games, but it's also the only killer that can do it, it's pretty clear when they made this game that they wanted people to distract the killers, running around in circles, baiting, mind games such as fake vaulting a window, using pallets is all a fundamental part of this game that nurse completely ignores and dumbs down the match.
i'm not saying you're 100% dead once you face her, because obviously every killer has the advantage in a 1v1 by design, add bloodlust to the mix, but the value is the time that is being wasted, nurse removes that aspect completely out of the game, i mean i know reasoning in these types of forums is without a point because people just want their class buffed and always act as the victim but when you do at least present somewhat of an argument.