eyedeeoneohtee
eyedeeoneohtee
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- eyedeeoneohtee
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True but it becomes an issue with holocubes and dead man switches, since you can't trigger either of them in build mode.
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One way I could see it working would be if you placed down a generator and then you could place down a bunch of tiles as long as they have an unbroken path back to the generator. The tiles would be indestructible and would electrify at regular intervals, but if you destroy the generator then the tiles become inert. Might be overpowered like that, though.
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@Dreamnomad said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/meet-your-maker/discussion/comment/3592250#Comment_3592250
It doesn't have anything to do with the holidays. My normal outposts went from 20-30 raids a day to around 8-11 raids a day. Dangerous went from around 7-9 a day to 5-7 a day. I think this is largely due to the fact that more outposts qualify as both normal and dangerous now. Metaphorically speaking, there is a larger piece of bread but the amount of peanut butter remained the same.
I think it's a side effect of increasing synthite gains. Firstly because everybody is building more and raiding less, which results in everybody getting fewer raids; and secondly because builders have a limited amount of synthite but they also have a limited amount of time, so increasing synthite shifts the balance towards low-effort outposts because they take less time to build. I'm not saying it should go back to what it used to be but maybe it should be lower than what it is now.
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@MythicMikeneto said:
Even with my current... challenges... with the dynamic difficulty system, I think its largely working.
Yes. it is hard AF to build a sustainable normal outpost, but builds that are too hard for newer players are ending up in dangerous or higher (as it should be).
I still think the perception that builds are in the wrong category comes from a builders innate desire to get kills and prey on newer players for easy kills. We just cant do that any more because it was stopping player base growth.
The fact that higher level player can and oftem do 0 death an outpost should negin to be viewed ad a boon to lower to outpost ranking. Sure the replay isnt worth the time it takes to load, but maybe thenext one where you get kills will be.
The other compounding factor is lack of raids for higher difficulties. Normals getting 10 times as many raids as brutal and 5 times as many as dangerous doesnt feel good to anybody; specifically when nobody wants to build basically harmless outposts for newer player friendly content.
We really need a fouth upper tier or the hardest 'brutal' content; or a lower tier for newer player content (Same difference.)
I do try to build outposts for new players, but I've seen enough replays to know that people complaining about difficulty are not the new players who forgot to craft any grenades before entering the outpost, they're the would-be speedrunners who bring nautilus, arc barrier and spike drive into an outpost intended for new players and then run into the death piston that never kills any of the new players. If that's who we're supposed to be building normals for then I'm just going to stop building normals.
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Two thoughts.
Firstly the difficulty thresholds are too low. It's pushing normal outposts into dangerous and dangerous outposts into brutal, which results in raiders ignoring both normal and brutal expeditions and just speedrunning dangerous expeditions because it gives the most rewards for the least effort.
Secondly it should be based on median kills rather than average kills. You're going to have raiders who die five times to the same impaler and you're going to have raiders who can navigate a five skull outpost without dying once, but those are both exceptions and the game shouldn't be balanced around either of them.
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@MythicMikeneto said:
I think creating positive new player experience focused content is the next step to growing the player base/community of MYM.
Many builder become very focised on kills and even defend it with things like 'git gud'; in truth I have had many statements from players leaving or that have left MYM pointing to the fact the 'tryhard' builder is what killed it for them.
The dynamic dofficulty system has gone into directly combat min/maxing in normals, but the result has swept nearly everything into brutals (and to a lesser degree, dangerous). This should present to builders as an obvious health check of what content difficulty is for new players.
The game cannot be expected to maintain new players when there isnt content geared toward their skill level. We (as builders) cannot expect a new player to come in and be as good as somebody who has been here since release (or before) and expecting them to die repeatedly to figure it out is not usually rewarding or enjoyable to them.
It is time for those with the skills and drive to build 'tutorial' or mostly harmless, sustainable, Normal builds for new players to enjoy to build up their skill in the game.
I know its incredibly difficult to shakenoff the 'must kill' mentality as a builder. Lets face it tho, kills from buildkng never has (and likely never will) effectively maintain your outposts. If you want more raids, we need more players. If we want more players, they need enjoyable content for their skill level.
Feel free to ping/DM me in the community discord and I will be happy to share what I have learned about building sustainable normals for new players. Its not for everybody but it can still be very rewarding in a differnt way than just 'getting kills'.
I thought I was building tutorial outposts but apparently three guards, two corrosive cubes and one boltshot is enough to push an outpost into dangerous now. New players deserve some credit, most of them have played a first person shooter before, they already know what the left mouse button does, and they can figure out the rest pretty quickly even if they die a few times along the way. If the developers want OSHA-compliant outposts for players who haven't played a first person shooter before then they should build them and put them in a dedicated tutorial expedition.
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Spontaneous got nerfed and people are learning to play around it, so I think that style of map is going to die out fairly soon. It's still annoying but it's not very effective anymore.
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It's a problem for builders as well as raiders. Brutal outposts aren't getting as many raids as they really should because for raiders the reward isn't worth the effort.
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I'm fairly certain it's a bug involving the new dynamic difficulty system. I think if an outpost's rating goes too high then it wraps back round to zero.
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@zachtherage said:
With the new Spontaneous mod i think their are some downright oppressive set ups that could have been made with the old flamethrower. the activation change may need like a .2-.5 sec increase though.
That's a problem with the spontaneous mod, not with the incinerator. It's possible to build oppressive setups using nothing but corrosive cubes.
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At the very least the acid should not be able to pass through other corrosive cubes. Right now you can stack six corrosive cubes inside a vertical shaft and the ejections will stagger in such a way that the block underneath them is constantly covered in acid. At no point can you stand in that spot and not die.
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I think points 1 and 2 could both be solved if raiding dangerous and brutal outposts gave more synthite. What I've been finding is that I can spend 15 minutes building a 750 capacity normal outpost or several hours building a 4500 capacity brutal outpost, but the normal outpost will get twice as many kills because it gets so many more raids. They're not all new players either, a lot of them are level 100 or 200 but just don't seem to raid anything above normal.
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Volt Ripper: Very similar to the Volt Lancer, but instead of a bolt that sticks into surfaces it fires a sawblade that bounces off of surfaces until it runs out of momentum. You can't pick up the blade until it stops moving and you will die if it hits you, so it's important to work out the angles before firing.
Plasma Missile: Fires a reusable missile that tracks your crosshair, even through walls, and upon hitting a surface it sticks and explodes. It only holds one shot and can't be upgraded to hold more, so the Demolition Cannon still has a lot more firepower.
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What about just adding ladders to the game? Nothing fancy, just a low capacity "trap" that lets the harvester or the guards climb that section of wall?
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Plating: Similar to what guards have, but adjusted for the raider. It takes up one of your hardware slots, and if you take a hit then it's automatically consumed and gives you a moment of invulnerability.
Pulse Disruptor: An energy weapon that leaves no projectile and automatically regenerates ammunition, but deals no permanent damage. Hitting a trap or guard only disables it for a few seconds.
Peregrine Suit: A lightweight suit designed for aerial mobility
-Extended Tether: Increases grappling hook range by 10/20/30%
-Turbo Motor: Increases grappling hook speed by 10/20/30%
-Soft Landing:
--Level 1: No slowdown after falling long distances
--Level 2/3: Movement speed increased by 10/20% for 5 seconds after falling long distances
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If you keep dying to blind corners then learn how to use the demolition cannon.
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How about a mod for the enforcer that causes the bolt to let out electric arcs for a few seconds after it hits a wall?
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The real problem with keys is that they force the player to backtrack, but most players will have already cleared the path on their way to the key, so backtracking along that path adds no challenge and just wastes their time.
The only way I could see it working would be if you could place multiple doors and a control panel, and destroying the control panel would open every door in the outpost simultaneously. That way you have to destroy the panel to open the door to the genmat, but you also have to deal with the traps and guards hidden behind all the other doors on the way back to it.
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Dozer: A melee guard that charges towards the raider at high speed. Pretty much the Charger from Left 4 Dead 2.
Overseer: A flying guard that has no offensive abilities and will try to flee if it sees a raider, but what it can do is repair traps and revive other guards. Priority target for obvious reasons.
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I'd really like to see some space-filling props, not just stuff that goes on surfaces. It would be nice to have something to fill up empty spaces even if it doesn't do anything.
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@MadMoeZel said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/Meet-Your-Maker/discussion/comment/3479883#Comment_3479883
then you put that effort in and raiders skip all the side areas and go straight to genmat. then even if you do incorporate it and someone goes after it but they don't find it, they assume you blocked it in because they didn't have the wit to find it.
thats why i just put 2nd wave holos on mine. you want the loot? beat the level. loot is earned, not given for free. i've built challenge maps, art maps, and "xp" maps, by far XP maps see the most traffic because again, entitlement. people who think they should just be given resources to unlocked every single thing and have 5 bases active at all times without ever having to run a raid.
In this particular case I don't blame it on the players, the game just has two mechanics that pull in opposite directions. Allowing builders to add optional challenges to an outpost is a fine idea on its own, and forcing builders to strategize by limiting their resources is a fine idea on its own, but when both systems are active at the same time, builders are naturally going to ask: Why would I put my best defenses where most players won't see them? Why would I put any defenses where most players won't see them?
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The problem isn't that raiders are entitled, it's that builders don't want to spend capacity on optional side areas. Every trap on a tomb is one less trap on the harvester path.
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You're looking at it the wrong way. As a builder your goal is to get as many kills as possible, and that means not only killing the raider, but also keeping them engaged enough to try again after five or ten deaths. The system is designed to reward outposts that are made to be interesting over outposts that are just made to be efficient.
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I think the basic plasma sentinel is fine as it is, but the plasma cloud mod could do with a price increase. Without that mod it isn't particularly threatening.
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The problem with letting Harvey walk through holocubes is that builders could make an outpost that kills Harvey in the first few rooms and then leads the raider into a giant holocube maze that they can only navigate through trial and error. Unfortunately, anything that can be abused will be abused.
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For speedrunners, how about adding the Eagle Eye mod to the impaler? Increase the activation range from a single block to a 1-2 block radius, so if a raider tries to rush through the trap it will activate while they're approaching and kill them if they don't slow down.
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I think the HRV system isn't in a bad place but it might be good to have some augments that give it a few more movement options, subject to a few restrictions for balance purposes:
-Harvey should always be less mobile than the raiders, since Harvey doesn't have to deal with traps or guards
-Harvey augments should have a substantial difficulty multiplier, to keep parkour mazes out of normal difficulty
-Harvey augments should add obvious cosmetic changes to Harvey on any outpost that uses them, so raiders always know what to expect
That being said, I think the following augments would be reasonable unlocks:
Climbing Hooks: Harvey can climb vertically up or down walls, if a walkable space exists at the top and bottom of the wall. Harvey cannot move horizontally along walls or ceilings
Pneumatic Legs: Harvey can jump up to five blocks horizontally and up to two blocks vertically, if a walkable space exists at the start and end point, and if the path between them is unobstructed
Asbestos Jacket: Harvey can pass through corrosive cubes, if the corrosive cube has no mods and is not adjacent to any other corrosive cubes. Although Harvey can walk through corrosive cubes, they are not counted as a walkable space for the purpose of any other augments.
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Explosive Barrel: Explodes with a large radius when damaged
Mods:
Shrapnel: Increased explosion radius
Toxic Waste: Explosion leaves a damaging cloud for several seconds
Nitroglycerine: Explodes immediately when touched by a raider or guard
Second Wave: Second Wave
Holocube mod: Chain Reaction
Holocube does not trigger when a raider approaches, but does trigger when an adjacent holocube triggers. If combined with Eagle Eye, holocube triggers when any other holocube in the outpost triggers.
