coco_shotz
coco_shotz
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@Crowman said:
Are survivors going to not focus on getting gens done as fast as possible so people can practice Xenomorph? Seems weird to solely ask the killer player to not play to win.
It's not just asking the killer but from what I've been seeing alot of survivors want the chase too so they can also learn how to dodge aggro from the xeno. It's not unreasonable to not sweat constantly for the sake of play testing since not all of us can get on the PTB
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@ReikoMori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3529780#Comment_3529780
Legion, Twins, Ghostface, Old and New Freddy, Sadako(but she was so weak it didn't matter), Blight(massive tunnel fest early in his lifespan), Skull Merchant(Until folks settled on 3 gen defense)
It basically happens with every release to a degree, but some are more memorable than others depending on the hype of the chapter and the learning curve of the killer. Xenomorph has a decent skill floor and fairly high skill ceiling without having extremely burdensome mechanics. Tunneling is going to be particularly effective way of playing until people build up their confidence and overcome the largest barrier the killer has which is managing flamethrowers. Once people get the hang of that and are able to consistently track and juggle survivors with Xenomorph's kit the tunneling will taper off and that usually takes around two weeks in my experience.
I still think in hindsight it's better to just focus on chase when the killer is new and not so much winning yk. The knowledge you gain from chasing different survivors with different builds, skill levels or experience is what makes you turn the learning curve and you can't really gain all you can from that if you sit on top of someone because you aren't patient enough to learn because your ego cant handle it
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@Nazzzak said:
^ what they said. It's common whenever a new killer releases. People don't know how to use the power yet but they still want to win. Plenty of us - myself included - aren't tunnelling while we learn but I'm just saying it's not unexpected and it should calm down within a few weeks. Whether that's because people familiarise themselves with the killer or because they drop it and go back to the killer/s they normally play is anyone's guess.
This is honestly a new experience for me as I can't recall any killer release with this much of an issue with immediate tunneling. Skull merchant tunneled her 3 gen maybe (and still does) but I can't recall a killer having a release this bad. I'm not really sure why as the killer seems decent once learned and wouldnt extending chases make more sense from a learning standpoint so you can know how to approach any survivor counter play? Maybe I'm just more of a technical learner
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@HugTechLover said:
Everybody tunnels on new killers because they aren’t confident with the power. Then people continue to tunnel because it the META.
The thing is I don't play this game that seriously so my MMR is not up there so idk why a killer needs to act like this when it's not a 4 man swf sweat squad. Not everyone is grouped up and coming after the killer. Play the game and get the kills organically for now and then tunnel when survivors show that it needs to be done
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Broken killer seems far fetched and the turrets aren't all that strong to begin with even though they do help out
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In all fairness at this point in the game there has to be some type of incentive to being injured, it happen so often especially vs a killer like the legion. There has to be some type of compensation for being constantly near death so these perks allow for an "all or nothing" approach. While it can be problematic to a degree, you can't say that these things aren't allowed cause if that's the case the perks like noed should also disappear since you didnt stop the survivors from doing all the gens therefore you deserve to lose. See how one sided that sounds?
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This is something that happens on both sides. If anything is seen as helpful and efficient the opposing side immediately calls for nerf since everyone deserves free games just for logging on
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Don't you know that killers deserve free hits and 4k because the game is survivor sided?
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Lack of asym horror at the moment. Tcm is gonna hopefully encourage more games of this nature so we have a better variety but dbd has the advantage of not being tied down to an IP
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While I can see how you may be feeling the effect of the survivor nerfs, there have been plenty on the killer side as well which is why we have the sloppy meta we have now. Nerfs just create new metas and don't erase issues within the game
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@Dogma_loki said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3528308#Comment_3528308
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3528467#Comment_3528467
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3528453#Comment_3528453
Fact: It can be proven to be true or false through objective evidence.
Opinion: Is a statement that expresses a feeling, an attitude, a value judgement or belief.
Which one are you saying applies to me?
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Geez the killer has been out for like 5 minutes can y'all try not sweating for once? Like boohoo some survivors escaped a new killer that nobody can efficiently play yet wahh, aw I can't escape his tail wahh like can y'all try and just work with it for a minute JFC
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This game is toxic, the forums are toxic and tcm is also toxic. That is the asym horror genre. Either get with it or play something else
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It's not really the 3 gen that needs to be nerfed as the killers who capitalize off it do. Skull merchant being at the top of the list as she can essentially force a 3 gen if she decides to patrol the entire game. Things like that should not be allowed by the killers power directly but if the survivors mess up and leave themselves in a 3 gen with a blight then that's on them. It's a killer issue and not a 3 gen issue. Really nerfing sm would erase the forced 3 gen strat.
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This nerf is incredibly uncalled for. Of all the perks to nerf why choose windows? There are many more deserving perks that should be changed before this is even considered
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@awustzdn said:
Yeah, that's what happens when survivors whine until all the viable killer perks are nerfed.
When every other forum post is an mft cry
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While there are times that slugging can be useful for the killer, they should never leave someone to fully bleed out for 4 minutes. Imo that should be considered griefing since you as the slug have no counters to being slugged other than brining unbreakable or just dying in general (which you have no control over since its a set timer) like its not a big deal to hook someone dead and then play find the hatch. Killers just can't accept that they won't find the hatch every game and that doesn't make you a bad killer at all it's just keeping the game flowing without the need of catering to an ego
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3524316#Comment_3524316
The branch only has colision for the chainsaw or when you try to lunge attack through it, you can walk through it as killer and as survivor... I guess you haven't encountered it yourself otherwise you'd know...
I was referring to maps as a whole and not just that one with one particular problem.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3524089#Comment_3524089
Come on man you cannot tell me they intended for the hitbox to be wider than the model or than some small branches actually have collision and make it stop your chainsaw, like that small branch in the yamaoka house for example, I think they just messed up, if not it is just bad design.
While it's certainly believable that they simply messed up with the design, I also feel like they wanna make it harder to hug the loops since that is a common strat
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3524031#Comment_3524031
Yeah but the map also be a me worse for many other killers, that many line of sight blockers hurt a lot of them, I think the collision is also rather bad, not garden of joy or eyrie levels of bad but pretty meh.
There are times when I feel they intended on having alot of collision for some maps
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3523450#Comment_3523450
The reworked red Forrest maps are a nightmare for him every 2 m is some dumb Los blocker how did they rework those maps and managed to make them worse??
Tbf when they reworked that map the singularity wasn't out yet so maybe they came up with his concept after they already did the rework
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While I can definitely see where you are coming from in terms of tunneling and having issues with SM and Wesker, this game has had said issues that you have discussed for several years now and seem to just be a part of the game since the dev team considers it viable and if they think that we have no choice but to oblige. It's not fun to play the game for 30 seconds with no chance to actually achieve anything but RNG is also a huge part of dbd. Have you considered tcm? It's not the same at all but it is something different you can try out to still get your rush of playing hide and seek but may find it more of a casual enjoyment
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Personally I will say I hate doing this as survivor and other survivors that do this. I will also not try to act as if I've never sat and tbagged at the gate to a tunneling killer who failed at getting me
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3523335#Comment_3523335
As much as it sucks for the people who play her in a chase-oriented way (myself included), she might require a rework to address this. That's the real shame here. I do play Skull Merchant. I do enjoy her to a point. But this is ridiculous.
I suppose they could rework her to be better at cutting off loops instead of patrolling but I don't know exactly how they could go about that
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As annoying as this is I don't see how it can be nerfed and still make her viable. Giving her less drones takes away from the intended pressure she has but also giving them a lesser time limit also limits functionality so I'm not sure how I would approach this
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Does it also feel like the maps in general have gotten larger? Crows had to be reworked since it was too vast and many of the new maps since then have seemed larger than the rest (except maybe the singularity map but tbh I don't get that one much) and that is also contributing to pallet number? More space I guess means more pallet spawns
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She does have counterplay but does need some sort of nerf. Really just lower the radius of her map wide condemned to a larger space to where she teleports, but still avoidable by the longest distance
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@biggybiggybiggens said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3522059#Comment_3522059
Not sure what you're on about. There are so many holes and spots you can get through that most of the family cannot. I mean if they're all after you, that's just a better luck next time. Saying there isn't counter play though is clearly wrong.
Those are temporary set backs that can easily be ignored by the sissy/hitchhiker meta. Add comms to Leatherface and that's a done deal
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@totallynotamegmain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3522059#Comment_3522059
crawl spaces, pallets, windows (emergency), well, doors, cracks in walls. All slow down the family, their pallets can only be broken by leather face and crawl spaces and cracks are only accessible by hitchhiker/sissy. There are lots of ways to escape chase you just need to learn the maps and best ways to escape them.
If Sissy or hitchhiker decide they want you then thats it. Also the fact that there are 3 killers with easy communication can lead to a very easy cut off and gang bang sesh
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@[Deleted User] said:
Watching and playing TCM, there’s no point in denying it anymore- DBD is way more comp than the “casual party game” crowd want you to believe. Would be nice if the devs finally just acknowledged this and balanced things appropriately.
It’s funny to me that the majority of the people I’ve seen on social media saying TCM is boring and dull are also survivor mains on DBD. Coincidence? Maybe. Or is it because dunking on killers isn’t really possible in TCM.
You can't deny that there is a lack of counterplay in TCM regarding actual chases. In dbd you at least get pallets
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@Archive512 said:
TCM has been out for 2 days and people are already saying that its gotten stale?
dbd has had seven years to get a bajillion perks, survivors, killers, maps etc. if people would stick to another asymetical horror and give it the same attention as dbd, there would at least be another game to play other than this one. if you abandon a game the same week it comes out because it 'doesnt have enough in it' then get ready to just have dbd, since no other game can be given any time to actually flourish and create more content.
It's not that is doesnt have the potential for good content but the content that can be put in is stuck to one franchise in one universe. How many maps can you truly add from the tcm franchise? Sure you can make up some new characters but it won't feel as authentic but you would literally have to make up maps that don't exist in TCM lore to get a decent amount going. The game just has very little in it right now and it will lose peoples attention fast
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Tcm has a great gameplay model but it's tied down by the fact that it's got limited source material and lacking content. The maps are very few and repetitive and the character progression is more limiting. Fun game but once the novelty wears off everyone will flood back as soon as alien arrives.
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Just because someone is considered a top pro player doesn't mean we need to take their word as holy writ. You have to also remember the MMR and the games that these players are used to and how little of the actual playing community falls into said MMR. While you can definitely take some advice from comp player, you cannot just accept what they say simply because they say it
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@sukre1 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3520362#Comment_3520362
TCM will expand as Friday the 13th did except avoid lawsuits .
Dbd has the 5 generator and door so yes every series is limited however it comes down to what you want
True but dbd has one thing that tcm doesn't and that's an original concept. The idea of the trials and the entity is behavior creating their own lore which gives them more creativity when it comes to making new killers and ideas. They also can have multiple different licenses due to the neutral lore. Tcm has a great gameplay model but a more limited source material to pull from
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Tcm is really fun don't get me wrong but it won't take dbd out of the top spot. Tcm is limited in only using characters and locations from that universe and there is only so much you can do with that series
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@Alice_pbg said:
3k is a win for killer. and so is a 4k obviously.
some consider 2k a tie. to me the survivors won.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3515992#Comment_3515992
no. your objective is to sacrifice or kill the survivors. who cares if there's 4 or none generators left?
Agreed if the gens are all done but you happen to bring an end game build and kill 3 of them at least then that still sounds like a decent match for the killer
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@Rulebreaker said:
While we could be forgetting, we haven't seen an "official" determination of win or loss from the devs (not that we'd take it seriously anyways).
For us a win as killer is 2+ of the following:
- 7+ hook states
- Killed the most annoying or skilled survivor
- Had fun
As survivor 2+ of the following:
- Escape
- Complete rift challenge or achievement
- Die a hero
- Annoy the killer if they're being a ***
- Have fun
Honestly the best realist answer I've seen so far
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@jesterkind said:
The win conditions are pretty obvious in their general shape, though some specifics are up for interpretation on the killer side.
For survivor, it's pretty clear: Escape. If you escape, you win. If you didn't, you lose. That's how the game is designed, that is the thing that all survivor actions are heading towards as a goal, so it's the win condition. Pretty straightforward.
For killer it's a little more ambiguous, so some level of subjectivity and personal interpretation is gonna come into play. The game is clearly designed around killing survivors as your goal, so the win condition clearly must be that, but exactly how many is a little less clear. I'd personally say at least three is a win, as it's more than escaped, that's just my opinion on that front.
Of course, the game's win condition doesn't have to be the only thing you care about. You may care about altruistic plays more as survivor, so a three-out game with you as the only kill can still be a win for you even if the game you're playing counts it as a loss, for example.
Tbf if you actually do the best and sacrifice yourself for your team you can still come out with more points than the surviving members of your team and is that not a super big W flex? "Hey I took aggro the whole time and still did better than you guys that lived"
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@Volcz said:
If I die so my 3 other teammates can get out, its a W for the team.
If 2 people die and 2 people escape, its a tie. No one loses or wins.
If all 4 or 3 survivors die, its an L for them and a W for the killer.
Pity/mercy hatch - L for the survivor.
What if the last survivor finds the hatch tho? Do they personally get a W or do they have to stay tied to the whole team? Personally as a solo queue player a majority of the time I think if I did the best overall and got hatch then that's a bit of a win for me since I technically would have earned it at that point
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@TheArbiter said:
Obviously this is all subjective and personal opinion but for me
Survivor: Door escape = win anything else including hatch is a loss
Killer: 3k with hatch or 4k, 3k with door escape = loss
Could you explain how the door escape equates to an L at 3k? You may not get the last one but getting 3 is still really good
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This mainly started due to blood warden but since the perk is not heavily used anymore I don't see why we have to constantly leave the gates 99
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No. Don't ever do that
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People need to stop taking a prestige level as holy writ. The only thing a prestige level tells you is how many blood points someone put into a single survivor, and while this can mean that someone is very good it doesn't guarantee that they are ayrun or naymeti in actual practice. Blood points are practically given away in dbd so having enough to put into one character means they may play alot but that doesn't make them any good at the game itself in the long run
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@Sharby said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3511909#Comment_3511909
Well that's the thing.
I think Killer as a whole is easier because MMR algorithm is subpar, I can queue up as killer at any point on any killer and 80-90% of my games will be casual or lower-skilled players, even when I used to sweat really hard on Killer (4k'ing/tunneling/camping) if I played 20 games, 16 were stomps, 2 were challenging, and 2 I got stomped due to the survivors being way better.
However, the higher you go skillwise the more having to play against four brains puts the killer at a disadvantage. Killer becomes exponentially more difficult if all four survivors know what to do, which is why in tournaments everyone is limited so heavily (from my knowledge, I don't really keep up with comp DBD.)
With this in mind its why I don't really take posts about killers being unplayable seriously, very few people ever get to play killer at the level where killer is stressful as heck, and even in strong survivor metas, killer is still easier to play. That being said, people who act like killer as a whole takes no skill are equally as dumb tbh.
I do agree that playing killer is far from skilless as it requires you to learn and adapt to multiple different play styles (both from the different killers and the different squads you will face) as well as it seems like both sides seem to face inequality matchmaking (I recently made my own post regarding this) on top of never considering things such as the map, the chosen killer, the skills of the survivors and their builds. Dbd is far too random to be balanced
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@Xernoton said:
"Killers have it too easy." Wow. That is a hot take, if I've ever seen one. The 1 killer that has to sweat like their life depends on it and still barely competes in the game with 4 survivors that chill on gens and relax for the most part has it too easy. Killer is a much more stressful role than survivor is. And it has always been this way. You get no down time when you play killer. You are constantly on the clock and your mistakes matter a lot more.
"I let a lot of survivors escape because I feel pity for them." That explains a lot. Pretty much your entire post. DBD has a MMR system. Letting survivors go means you technically lose to them. Which artificially keeps your MMR low and in turn means you get to go against bad survivors.
If the devs played this game once in a month against a high level SWF the game would be dead. High level SWFs limit themselves in terms of perks, items, addons and offerings and still stomp killers without any restrictions. Survivors are way stronger than killers, if they play good enough. And at that point it doesn't matter how good the killer is because they still lose when survivors stop restricting themselves.
At the lowest level, the killer is way stronger than the survivors. If you want an explanation for that, feel free to ask and I'll go into detail. But the higher you go, the stronger survivors become and the weaker killers become in comparison.
What I take from your post is that you play at a pretty low level. Which is ok. No shame in that. But it does not represent the actual state of the game.
While the lower levels do often have a killer stomp rate, how can you say that the only viable part of taking MMR seriously is at the top when swfs dominate the field? 4 solo survivors with high MMR can be 3 or 4k by a killer of the same caliber
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@Sharby said:
Killers have it easier but I would absolutely not say killers have it easy unless you play Wesker. Survivor has also gotten plenty of strong changes that puts them in a good spot, so I disagree as a Survivor main.
Most people, including most good players, would not be able to successfully play killer against a good SWF. So you have to put some respect on the people who work hard to be good at killer, it takes a lot of effort and skill to pull it off.
While I agree with your statement I think simply putting all the survivor bias on swf is not very healthy. How many actual 4 squad sweat swfs do you actually see vs the amount of casual solo or 2 stack
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@Pluto_1 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3511335#Comment_3511335
Let's not mix it up here. I'm unbothered by what people think of me as a killer.
I'm curious about people's justifications for playing under such circumstances.
Dbd is full of really bad circumstances tho. Rng has a much bigger impact on the game then people give it credit for. Alot of times people are mad that the rng didn't quite give them an edge on coldwind for once or two pallets in the garden of Eden spawned back to back for good loop connections. There really is no one answer for what you are asking as everyone as a different point of view and alot of times they don't really understand why.
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If you are so unbothered then why feel the need to make a whole forum post about it? Not dissing you just throwing it out there. And to answer your question proper, there is no other type of game right now where you can play as or run from a psycho killer and try to escape the slasher movie. Friday the 13th has been officially killed off and we have Texas chainsaw but no guarantees it will succeed so dbd is the most logical choice for most people
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I'm curious as to what happened to have you write this post
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@Sadako_Best_Girl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3504236#Comment_3504236
Yeah but then you are not looping her, you are just running to another place. Looping means running around the same structure over and over.
You can also connect back to the original loop (or let her think you are) and continue around 2 loops at once which is constant structures. Looping her is just significantly different from basically every other killer in the game