cburton311
cburton311
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@tes said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3976162#Comment_3976162
That’s the biggest lie that few ms doesn’t matter. Especially with this perk, that not only make it faster but completely moves your hitbox like in time where vacuum vault was possible.
If few ms never matter in this game, then high ping, finesse, resilience, flicks from killer or “short lunge” instead of the long one to hit through pallets never worked
reading comprehension for the lose. I said it isnt game breaking which is factually true. The game works fine, everyone can play and killers can still kill people with this perk…its just harder. Additionally, I have seen less than 5% of my teammates with this perk so it is additionally a marginal impact on the game.
So to summarize, learn to read all the words and then use your grey matter to understand them.
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@ImWinston said:
- I'm sure BHVR has people on its team who test changes to the killers, but I'm equally sure that there isn't a group of people on its team who play survivor against the newly modified killers. The real testers are the players in the PTB and then in the live game. It's not possible that a survivor tester on the team said "sure, Twins is fine as it is," "Skull Merchant is perfect," or "Kaneki is totally right."
They may have a QA department but at this point, I think we would have to agree they are either incompetent or BHVR is screwing with us on purpose. Releasing these broken af killers, might be driving some clown sales and certainly encouraged more ghoul sales on release.
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@100PercentBPMain said:
I'm already sick of this perk. I'm already the biggest Finesse hater but now we have one with no cooldown and doesn't care about being healthy.
it's I'm all my lobbies paired with 4 Lithe. pls let me off the vault train
I call BS, its only available on the new characters and not everyone has bought them. Additionally, a few hundred ms of advantage on a vault does not break the game. It might mean that occassionally yes, there's a miss instead of a hit. Big whoop, you lose a few seconds on one chase. It will get fixed but exaggerating wildly about it won't make that happen any faster.
The deathslinger bug on the other hand, if true, would demand it get fixed with morefocus. That is borderline game breaking.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
Possibly. Clown is very strong with the buffed yellow bottles. And I think the only reason why he is not seen more often is simply because he is really boring to play.
except I see him in 80% of my matches now…clown, ghoul, clown, clown, clown, myers, clown, clown, clown, blight was this morning…i mean i get it, play it before the fix but the game is broken right now.
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I mean, it should just grant the killer a merciless victory with 40k bloodpoints upon choosing the clown. Why even load the match? They could save themselves a lot of server costs if they just get rid of spawning the games for ghoul, clown, blight, and nurse.
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@OmegaXII said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3947007#Comment_3947007
You do realise you have 10k hours in this game, right? Shouldn't it be normal to win much more than average with your experience?
I have around 1.5k hours in this game, and even my top played killer has less hours than your 8th rank Nemesis, and I only have 56% Kill Rate in average. (I don't camp, tunnel, use slowdown)
A top rank chess player can win against 99% of the people. Does that mean chess is imbalance?
Just accept you're much better in playing killers than most people, even though you main Survivor, mate. You're just that good.
I think what it means is that MMR is terrible. I have ~4k hours, and I am OK at the game, bad at killer and alright at survivor. My escape rate hovers around 35%. I got to say that doesn't feel great. I wish the game was balanced so that equal skilled teams would escape at 50% not 60%. I really really wish the MMR made that happen more often.
When I started playing in 2019(?) survivor queues were 2-5 minutes in the evenings, but the games were fun. It was worth hanging out on discord and perusing the web waiting for the games to pop. Now my queues are 10 seconds and I regret playing after most games.
These are my experiences and opinions they may apply to no one else, but I used to play 3 -4 hours in a sitting. Now I play 1 -3 matches every patch to see if the game feels better for me.
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@Abbzy said:
Genrushing is just survivors copleating their objective the most effective and faster way possible in u nutshell. Thats the same as killer tunneling, sluging and proxycamping occasionally when its supper effective for him to hinder survivors progress and kill them fastest way possible. Its effective strategy and not liked by your opponent.
"Genrushing" isn't the same as tunnelling, slugging, and camping though. While being genrushed the killer still has 100% control of their character and can play the game. The reverse is not true. A slugged or hooked survivor is just removed from actively participating in the game and able to do nothing fun. Generators are 90 seconds of no fun but mandatory for the victory conditions.
Gen slowdown and tunnelling, slugging, and camping are all no fun for survivors. Only chasing, or narrowly escaping with a neat hide or mindgame are really fun. Anything that reduces the fun bits should be weighed carefully and same goes for increasing the no fun bits.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3929349#Comment_3929349
If you talk to the minority here than yes. I don’t think you’d have the amount of survivors that we do have including myself, if we didn’t actually like it.
I think the queues sort of speak to the issue. 2v8 there are just factually too few survivors and too many killers. How ever much specific people enjoy it, most don't.
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@TheDavidKingMain said:
Why are survivors just not allowed to have strong perks anymore? This is actually ridiculous that killer mains have such control over the community that that they can get shoulder the burden, an anti tunnel perk with 2 SIGNIFICANT DOWNSIDES, nerfed before it even hits live servers.
Can’t say I’m surprised though, we all saw this happen so many times before. DS, dead hard, MFT, ADRENALINE! (seriously why did ADRENALINE need a nerf????) Why even buy the new survivors when their perks are so bad?
I don't plan to buy any survivors for this game. The perks I use are so bland that killers will likely never complain about the likes of bond. I have at least workable builds to play. They aren't good…but they are immune to nerf hammer. And it saves me from ever having to spend money on this game.
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@Dreamnomad said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3842312#Comment_3842312
I think bots are something to consider but I think your solution is the wrong way to go about it. I think you could offer killers the option to play 2v8 vs bots and offer them a 100% bloodpoint bonus for doing so. There are no doubt plenty of killer players that would choose the instant queue time and bloodpoint bonus to play against bots which would lower the queue times for players that only want to play real players. Saddling real people with a handful of bots isn't fair to the survivors.
I think another option would be to make it 2v6 in future game mode but give the survivors 4 life states to make up for the difference.
you assume that survivors want their team polluted with bots. This would kill the mode completely, except for killers that like playing against bots.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3841393#Comment_3841393
I think no matter what BHVR does slugging, camping, and tunneling will remain META strategies. When survivors were at their weakest and killers had the strongest regression in the game and games took 40 minutes, killers still camped, tunneled, and slugged. It doesn’t matter how strong or weak survivors/killers are there will always be camping, tunneling, and slugging because it makes the game easier for one side.
Behavior could fix it if they chose. Remove the 1 time per match use of unbreakable. Make hooks all work like pyramid heads' do. There i fixed camping and slugging. Want to bet I couldn't fix tunnelling? Decisive strike is basekit and useable every time after an unhook and make the stun last 10 seconds.
Now the real question is how do you fix those bad behaviors without ruining the game balance the other way. Well that is a different issue entirely, and might actually require some big brain game designers to experiment a little.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3765939#Comment_3765939
It's 43% ER at High MMR vs 48%.
I've been out of school for a bit, but I'm fairly confident that isn't 10%
your right, its higher than 10% more, 0.43 * (1 + 10%) = 0.474 or 47.4%
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3764955#Comment_3764955
The survivor one has a workaround, don't take endurance perks, the killer one doesn't its "just don't play the game"
technically the killer one has a work around….don't tunnel. If you spread the hooks around evenly, no one is knocked out of the game and the gen's don't complete 1 extra. Simple. Honestly, most games I'm in the killers are still getting 4k or 3k +hatch.
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@Sunbreaker7 said:
As a survivor, what do you consider a win in the below list:
- You get out of the match alive.
- Your teammate gets out alive.
- your teammate gets out alive thanks to your sacrifice so he could escape.
- you and everyone get out alive.
As a killer:
- You sacrifice all 4 survivors.
- You sacrifice 3 of the 4 survivors.
- You sacrifice 2 of the 4 survivors.
- You sacrifice 1 of the 4 survivors
Honestly, these days, I consider it a win if the match was fun. All this generally requires for me to have fun, is to be upright and participating in the match. If I can loop the killer well once, or if I can save someone on death hook by jumping in front of the killer at the last second.
Generally matches are not fun, if I spend 5 minutes on generators and walk out the exit, or if the killer goes full toxic and slugs, camps, and tunnels me or my teammates out immediately.
My escape rate is so terrible these days, that escaping cannot be a criteria for enjoying the game or I would have to stop playing.
I guess all that being said, I would consider it a win, if the team gets one member out the door. I feel like batches are very bipolar, either the gens don't get finished or the survivors do finish them, there are very few in that middle ground where some escape but not all or not 0.
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This event is terrible for survivors. It's so bad, i don't even play to win, I just join the match get my challenge done then find the killer and invite death so I can get to the next challenge. Now they are all done, and I am back to regular matches until I finish those challenges, at least the regular is playable, not great, but playable.
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My one thing would be change the game's philosophy from 1v1v1v1v1 to 4v1. Half of score and emblems would be based on personal achievement, and other half would be based on team performance. 4 out = perfect survivor score and 0 killer score, 4k with 5 gens would be 0 survivor score and perfect killer score, and everything in between would be scaled appropriately, with something like 5 gens completed by doors unopened equaling a draw.
I think this would promote more teamplay from the survivors, and since even a single player out the doors would be a survivor win, albeit the smallest possible victory the game might be easier to balance. How the hell does behavior succeed when balancing for 2 out? The absolutely most tiny differences swing the game from a 4 out to a 1 out. I think the door getting powered is an easier metric.
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@HexHuntressThighs said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3712772#Comment_3712772
Id be more inclined to agree with you if this whole post wasn’t designed to just be a “Who else hates DBD?” Post on DBD’s own website. If you don’t like the game then don’t play it. But instead they go onto the forums and tell everybody they hate it and are trying to rally people to hate on the game as well. This whole post is very insidious tbh so empathy isn’t really necessary.
It's possible their just being contrary, but, if like me, I used to love this game and played it a ton. The changes have made the current game much less fun and driven my play hours into the ditch. I used to average close to 20 hours a week, now its 1 hour a week max.
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@HexHuntressThighs said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/412691/who-cant-stand-the-game-anymore
This is literally the most balanced the game has ever been objectively and that can’t be argued. That’s probably why you don’t like it anymore, because all the ridiculously overpowered stuff is gone. This game used to be a survivors paradise back in the day lol.
The statement is flawed in the following way. The kill rates for the large pool of players ARE hitting their targets more or less, but individuals players don't care above the averages. If you as a individual are constantly getting seal team 6 survivors as a mid skill level killer the game is NOT fun, and the same is true if you play survivor but constantly get potato team mates or sweat lord killers. These individual experiences are not enough to sway the averages but those experiences are real.
As an aside, the playerbase should be more empathic and listen to the issues to understand them not listen enough to pounce on the poster providing feedback.
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@Junylar said:
I mostly play Wraith, and most of my games end up with 4k's, so I would expect my Wraith MMR to rise continuously. But yet I get potato survivors in half of my games, making those 4k's even easier. But when I pick a killer I have barely touched, almost always I get sweat squads with 100 prestige and baiting cosmetics. I have to dodge several lobbies before I find something decent, and even then I have to put up with survivors with 1.5-2k hours, even though my MMR for that killer is supposed to by at baby level. It makes it extremely difficult to start playing any other killer, especially killers like Blight, because not only I lack experience for them, but I only get survivors with tons of hours for some reason. I wonder, why does it happen? Has anyone else noticed anything similar?
This is what a shrinking playerbase looks like. The fewer people available to queue, the wider the net has to be get a game to go in a reasonable amount of time.
The sad bit is the matchmaking is so bad it is actually contributing to the shrinking playerbase making the whole problem worse.
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Gens are the objectives to reduce the match timer already. What we need is to reduce gen times to 30 seconds, but you can't work on them at all until you scavenge something in the map. Tools, parts, fuel whatever…
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@Marioneo said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pqMjGedQt8
in the video provided Otz talks about why buffing the duration of Ds won't solve tunneling especially against meta killers and instead says it should be made a common perk not locked behind a paywall for new players and begiven an additional effect that disables a killers power for 30-40 seconds so it can affect Nurses and blights.
Thoughts?
Or I dunno, maybe don't tunnel survivors. Decisive does NOTHING to killers that don't tunnel.
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@scoser said:
The devs don't worry about MMR, they only worry about queue times being long. As long as you can load into a lobby in 10 seconds, they're happy, even if you're going up against a 4 man sabo SWF or teamed up with literal potatoes.
This. This is why I barely play anymore. I am not delusional though, the old rank system was terrible. The MMR can work fine, they just need to turn the knobs to get it back to good matches. I'd rather wait 3-5 minutes to get a match that would be fun, than get an instant queue that I wish I would get camped out of.
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@woundcowboy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3614233#Comment_3614233
Not sure what game you’re playing but steath is irrelevant. Good survivors are aggressive and will try to get you to chase in very unfavorable areas for killer. If there are too many spawns like that on the map, the game is over before it begins.
It's true the top 3% of survivors don't play that way, but you'll notice I never claimed that they did.
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@woundcowboy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3612327#Comment_3612327
You can make the same argument against survivors. Tunneling is worse than ever because gen regression was nerfed into oblivion.
Except we have data that shows that this statement isn't true. In the most oppressive gen slow down meta ever, killers tunneled even more.
The root problem is that both sides have slowly optimized their play styles to achieve the goal as efficiently as possible. No matter how fast the generators progress, tunneling 1 person out is THE most effective way for a killer to secure a victory. As long as that remains true killers will continue to do it and they should, unapologetically. It is not up to the killers to play fair. It is required by BHVR to ensure that the game is fun when killers play efficiently. Tunnelling, camping, and slugging must be made less fun while still giving killers tools to enjoy and succeed in the match.
The same goes for survivors, working on generators is the way they achieve "victory". So gradually, the player base has learned to strip away all the inefficiencies. Survivors split up more often. A Side note, it's hilarious, they nerfed prove thyself. This perk actually encouraged survivors to behave less efficiently which actually helped killers. Now it's actually obvious that it's terrible so survivors just split up.
If looping a killer well was possible for the vast majority and lead to more survivor escapes, more survivors would participate in that activity. Since it doesn't lead to escapes very often for most people, they do it less and less. The more oppressive killers get in chase, the more stealth and gen efficiency will be the only strategies employed by the opponents they face.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3605178#Comment_3605178
No. Do you remember Eruption? 100% of killers using this perk weren’t excessively defending a 3 gen. And survivors could still win the game even if a killer was using Eruption, and killers didn’t need Eruption to hold a 3 gen. But Eruption was considered to be encouraging and enabling excessive 3 gen defense way more than it should, so it got nerfed.
Distortion is the exact same scenario. Not everyone that uses Distortion is excessively hiding, but survivors using this perk to excessively hide is a problem, so the perk should be nerfed.
Welcome to 2023 where calm spirit, distortion, and windows of opportunity are over powered and must be nerfed into oblivion to appease killers. BHVR really needs to start ignoring the cries for nerf this or that on these forums and reddit. BHVR design your own game and balance it for the type of gameplay YOU think is healthy. Ignore all of us (after this post). We know nothing of game design and if our suggestions are listened too, no one will want to play this game anymore.
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The problem is the idea that anytime survivors find something useful its nerfed is the root problem. It started with patch 6.1 and chase being hard nerfed. Dead Hard, blade wipe animation, reduced time to sprint away after injury for survivors all contributed to shorter and more difficult chases to escape. MFT was released and chase was back on the menu, but then, it got gutted. I mean nerfed into the ground to never be used again. Now were in a meta with very strong chase killers being very popular (no problem with that in an of itself), but there are consequences to killer chase being VERY strong, and survivor tools being VERY weak.
It isn't surprising to me at all, that the frequency of stealth tactics and perks is on the rise. So now we hear the cries that distortion is the NEW problem and it needs to be "fixed". I disagree. If there are balance issues, stop taking away from player agency and fun. This goes for both sides.
There needs to be moments in the game where someone says to themselves, that was awesome I wish I had been recording. No one says that after working on a generator for 90 seconds or after hiding in a bush for half the match or after they camp a survivor on hook.
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@moulesfrites said:
There must be a reason for it?
All the perks that were better than windows have been nerfed, and now windows reigns supreme!
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@Tsulan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3592800#Comment_3592800
Fun is subjective. Have a farming killer and watch how half the players complain. Same goes if someone suicidedes on 5 gens and the killer doesn´t farm.
Also, the same people that complain about killers ending matches early for survivors, would happily complete all gens in 3 minutes and leave.
Fun IS subjective. However, everyone can agree that hanging from a hook or bleeding out on the ground are not fun aspects of the game. As long as killer strategies that magnify these elements of the game are the most effective, we will continue to see killers use them.
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@I_Cant_Loop said:
I play each side about 50/50 and I know how much it sucks to get tunneled. I also know how difficult it is to get even one kill without tunneling against efficient, coordinated teams. so I understand why killers do it. Even 2-man SWF or good solo q teams can coordinate pretty effectively with the HUD info that survivors get now. Survivors have already gotten basekit tools to make tunneling much more difficult. Some players won't be happy unless they escape 95% of their matches and the killer has to get 12 hooks for a win. The devs are smart enough to understand that making these players happy means no more killer players.
I think most survivors want their escape rate to be close to 50/50. I just think 100% of survivors want different more fun mechanics to interact with. Dangling from a hook or achieving oneness with the ground as a slug are VERY unfun. If tunnelling is a crutch that killers currently need to achieve any level of success then lets nerf the ######### out of the effectiveness of tunnelling and then rebalance perks, maps, and killer powers until 50/50 escape and kill rate has returned. The game will be better for it.
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@Tsulan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3592051#Comment_3592051
And 5 years ago the top survivor meta perks were: SC, SB, DH, DS, BT, Adrenaline, Lithe and Urban Evasion.
From those perks BT became basekit and almost everything else still forms part of the meta. Having 5 years the same meta perks is whats called a stale meta.
And as you said, 2 years ago almost every survivor ran DS. Still top 8 most picked survivor perk.
Thats something that needs to change. A stale meta isn´t healthy. It isn´t interesting to face, it isn´t interesting to play. Its just boring.
The root problem is the those perks are design to counter unfun killer behavior. Since killer behavior hasn't really changed, those if reinstated to there former glory today, would instantly be the most chosen perks.
Until Behavior (and killers) realize that the most chosen perks are the ones that keep survivors playing the game, we won't actually cure the problem. The problem is killers playing in an unfun way (tunnelling, camping, slugging) is VERY effective.
How do you make the game more fun for both sides, THAT is what behavior should be focusing all their design talent on fixing. Instead we get endless bandaids addressing the symptoms. The most recent change for Anti-camping does nothing to address the fundamental issue: killers not engaging the rest of the team while they protect their hook is boring for both sides but is very effective.
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@GoofyGooberRock said:
I've been seeing more and more games now where killers are tunneling hard at 5-4 gens and they would purposely stand and face camp the survivor for them to hop off the hook only to be tunneled down very hard
even when you try to take body blocks for the survivor they would down you and ignore you going for the person they were tunneling hard for
Reinstate decisive strike to it's full 5 seconds stun.
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@Tsulan said:
Most healthy meta would be no meta at all.
Like what we had a couple of months after the meta shake up.
I mean, survivor meta barely changed over the last 5 years.
Killer meta also doesn´t look good. Slowdown perks still make up the biggest chunk of what killers pick.
I'm not sure you understand what meta means, or you are using hyperbole to make a point. 2 years ago almost every survivor ran decisive strike, unbreakable, and dead hard.
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@Peanits said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3590874#Comment_3590874
So this is also a little bit more complicated than it sounds. In order for it to not teleport to a survivor who didn't step on it, only the center of the trap (the actual trap bit) sets off the trap - the springs won't trigger it just like an actual trap. Since this part of the trap is only about a third of the trap's total width, the amount the 'danger zone' grows is only a fraction of the entire trap. Something like a 10% increase would only make the 'danger zone' marginally bigger, you'd still need to place it carefully. They can also only be scaled up so much before they appear comically big and require a whole new set of animations. It's also not really a perfect solution since making the traps larger has the side effect of making them even easier to spot and even harder to hide in small patches of grass.
The solution is obvious, make the traps twice as big, and make them invisible that way there's no teleport issue or issue with the traps looking comically big,
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The MMR should be based on escapes and sacrifices. It just needs to be scored from the team perspective. 1 person gets out, no matter who, all survivors get the same team score & MMR rating. Survivors should get 50% of their bloodpoints from team goals and 50% from personal achievement.
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Bond, we'll make it, sprint burst is my go to perk load out. Everything else feels bad to me or barely ever gives value. I'm that guy that gets slugged 10 matches in a row and then equips unreakable to never get slugged with it.
Most days i feel like a survivor with no perks selected would have about the same escape rate with VERY few exceptions
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@11d3 said:
Since the anti camping update and this stupid Halloween event do you guys think there should be something for rewarding the killer for killing someone on hook.
I think that if someone dies on hook, then that area around the hook up to how many meters becomes a dead zone for the survivors. All windows and pallets in that area will become unusable for the remander of the match. It will be like the entity rewarding the killer for killing someone on its hook. Kinda like the early version of this game where once a gen gets complete that map starts to clear out and you used to see lines as the world is falling apart.
Literally the killer side is laughable right now cause of all the chances that the survivors get. Adrenaline, background player, balanced landing, boil over, boons, borrowed time on top of the new anti camping, breakout, corrective action, dead hard, decisive strike, desperate measures, guardian, friendly competition, head on, hope, left behind, lithe, made for this, mettle of man, no one left behind, overcome, overzealous, prove thyself, reassurance is now useless, saboteur, smash hit, sole survivor, soul guard, sprint burst, unbreakable, visionary, wake up, we'll make it, we're gonna live forever.
Now keep in mind there are 4 survivors that require 2-3 hit depending on how they build and need to be hooked 3 times, on top of that they can bring items that can help boost their perks. The killer is just one person with one built in unchangeable special ability and only 4 situational perks that can also be cleansed if they are a hex which glows for whatever reason.
I think BHVR should do something for the killers by either having the area around the hook that the player died on become a dead zone throughout the entire match and the killer DOES NOT NEED A PERK FOR THIS TO ACTIVATE IT SHOULD BE BASE GAME LIKE HOW THE ANTI CAMPING IS, or BHVR should make hex totems look dull as well to give the survivors a second adjective, cause with this anti face camp they can gen rush all they want and not have to make a choice at all anymore.
What's your guys' opinion about this.
you know, survivors have to want to play this game too.
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AFC seems to be working AND camping and tunnelling have never been more fun or engaging. /s
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3563097#Comment_3563097
Repeated DCers need stronger punishments.
I disagree strongly. This is classic fixing the symptom not the problem. 2 years ago, basically no one every DC'd. What's changed since then, either in mechanics or style of play? I would argue that most of the recent killers are not as fun to play against in a very specific way. All the recent killers demolish looping and this facilitates easy tunnelling victory. Not all killers tunnel, but if they did, they would win far more of their matches. Tunnelling is too effective. This in turn has fostered the idea that once hooked it is pointless for person bloodpoint gain, rift challenges, or escapes. So why not go next.
This is a terrible set of incentives that have created the current dc / unalive meta.
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3 point plan
1) Make joining a game mean, staying with it in spectator mode until the match is finished. Even on restarting the game.
2) make scoring based on team victory conditions. 4 escapes best survivor team score, worse killer score. 5 gens incomplete and all 4 sacrificed is best killer result and worst survivor team score. Grant bonus score for individual accomplishments.
3) both sides need hope that victory is possible. Improve matchmaking quality. For expexted lopsided matches institute a handcap on gen repair times
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It may be of interest to ask why they are dc'ing. If you start with the assumption that everyone is looking to enjoy a match, why would someone sit through queue only to dc right away. I promise you it isn't because there was just a killer. These survivors are bearing the trauma of untold previous matches where they had zero fun. They learned the lesson (incorrectly maybe), that their fun is increased if they go next.
IMO this situation has grown to the level it has, because behavior is so slow in identifying problems that compromise the fun of the game for both sides. They only seem to react, when the problem is so large it might threaten the ongoing viability of the game. I'm thinking of the patch where they introduced new animations to survivor and it made juking killers impossible. There was a mass exodus of survivors, and Behavior was damn quick to undo that change.
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@grandpa_general said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3557343#Comment_3557343
1 i said comes to mind so yes pinhead is also in soloq sweeper list.
2 tell me how you can solve it? you cant without removing it dude.
just off the top of my head, assign a 100 point bump to the effective MMR when match making swf's over solo q's
boom
I didn't delete anyone or any play style.
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@Tsulan said:
The killer meta looks like gens are still perceived as the biggest threat.
Survivor meta is all about prolonging chases and finishing gens while injured. No anti camp, no anti tunnel, no healing. Almost like those aren't actually an issue.
I've played a build with bond and we'll make it. It was fun and useful but....it doesn't really change the survival rate. When killers proxy camp, we'll make it isn't fast enough to get the heal. I still use bond, because I like the information it gives me.
If those offbeat perks actually started to affect game outcomes, survivors would pick them.
It is sort of stunning to me that windows of opportunity has reason to the top. It's been out for how long? But every perk that was better than it has gotten nerfed I guess so now, even though it hasn't changed it is now top dog. I think that says more about the broader selection of perks than WoO
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The steam charts show a precipitous decline in September. I won't profess to know what's up for everyone else, but I am playing less than 10% of the time I used to because the game isn't fun. My list of issues: Matchmaking is terrible, bots are terrible, Killer behavior CAN be terrible (camping, tunnelling, slugging).
I should as an aside say that I don't expect killers to do anything except try to win. When I give feedback (both now and in the past) about camping, tunnelling, and slugging, it was directed to BHVR to fix their game. To expect the internet of people to abide by some arbitrary survivor rulebook is silly. However, BHVR needs to be way faster at identifying threats to the fun of the game and get on them right away.
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I want to reduce generator times and add a foraging for parts mechanic for survivors. This would increase map exploration and reduce sitting for minutes of m1 time each match. The killer should also have some time wasting things they need to do.
Complete a ritual by collecting 4 survivors blood for some benefit. I dunno something that requires them to spread the damage around instead of camping and tunnelling. Camping and tunnelling should be removed from the game in a natural way, not heavy handed and somewhat clunky mechanics.
Baked in perk benefits honestly are a terrible design. Make those earned effects. Killer completes the ritual they get some of the 6.1 patch benefits. Alternate killer activities encouraging engagement with all survivors, and survivors lose baked in borrowed time and anti face camping, etc Maybe survivors can gain those effects by ingame tasks, cleanse two totems to gain an endurance charge.
I'm spitballing hear but you get the idea. These ideas may be terrible, but the purpose is to remove free benefits, and turn them into in game activities to alter the matches play. Everything being granted by perks isn't great. What does a survivor do in game to react to a killers skills or perks? It's too late to take calm spirit but allowing for in game tasks allows for more skillful play instead of rock paper scissors.
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@Xernoton said:
Question is in the title.
Honestly, I see no reason why the killer shouldn't be allowed to see the hook stages. It wouldn't really make tunneling easier but it might help killers, who want to go for as many hooks as possible.
I personally don't have a lot of trouble counting hook stages but I did experiment with it before and made a point out of not counting and the results were an average of 5.4 hooks for the first kill. This is what happens when I do not count hooks and simply go for whoever I can find / down quickly. Now, I don't know about you, but I'd rather play against a killer, who gets their first kill at 9 hooks than at 5.
Now consider what a killer needs to do in order to tunnel as opposed to what they need to do in order to play as 'fair' as possible. Tunneling requires a killer to count to 3. Going for as many hooks as possible on the other hand requires them to count to 2 on 4 different survivors. So it's actually easier to tunnel. Is that really what we want?
What do you think about it?
absolutely not
the only reason to want to see it, is to either tunnel people out harder or to intentionally avoid removing someone.... in my experience, while not every killer tunnels, very very few will ignore a survivor that they stumble upon and then ignore them due 'cause it might kill them.
Not every killer would exploit the info, i don't think anyone would use it altruistically, so no way
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@Zenislev said:
The mistake you're making here is assuming that the killer experience matters to BHVR. It doesn't. There's 4 survivors to every one killer and considering survivors play the game in 3rd person and the characters themselves are mostly just skins, they're going to be way more likely to buy cosmetics. That means that BHVR has a pretty vested interest in keeping them as happy as can be. if that means giving them a ton of information, making perks like BT basekit, on top of giving them busted perks that let them extend chases forever, while designing maps such that they have an easy time looping killers forever, all while gutting any killer perks and strats to ensure that survivors have a good time, then yeah, they're going to do all of that.
Killers sell on name brand recognition. There's always someone that'll go "Oh #########, a game that lets me play a freddy krueger and nemesis? I'm in!". There's always going to be new killer players to feed to grinder, so they don't have to bother trying to retain them, so the killer experience is going to get worse and worse and worse, and it won't matter. Killers aren't getting #########.
I'm not even sure this isn't a parody post. Rewind the clock just over a year ago. Survivors had 5 second decisive strikes that worked the entire match, they had full power dead hard with iframes and distance gained, medkits could heal players multiple times at twice the speed of being healed by a teammate, plus all the little killer buffs with the 6.1 patch. All the recent killers destroy loops, reducing survivors chases to prethrow and press 'w'.
I am sorry this is the golden age for killers, and if you aren't experiencing that maybe you are at the highest possible MMR and facing the absolutely cracked survivors every match. What I think is more likely is that you more likely mid - tier killer that has a skill issue.
Most of the survivor buffs your complaining about, behavior had to add to counter toxic killer behaviors: Camping & tunnelling,
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@Alinpazz said:
While I agree this fix is bad it's for different reasons. Survivors are gonna abuse the radius. Faster gen productivity is interesting, but depending on the speed would be exploited too. I still say a buff to hook leaving perks would naturally get killers to leave the hooks on their own.
I'm not sure that's true. I think that killers have just solved the problem on what is the most efficient and successful. I'm not sure changing chase perks would alter this math unless those perks were buffed a lot. We have evidence that this wouldn't work too. Patch 6.1 hugely buffed killers in chase in a bunch of small to medium sized ways and the result was more camping and tunnelling then ever before.
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@Peanits said:
There's a few things to unpack here, so I'll try to touch on all of them.
How does letting the hooked survivor jump of the hook deliverance style fix anything?
For the hooked Survivor, there was absolutely nothing you could do previously. You could only sit there and wait until you eventually die. If your team was coordinated, they could maybe organize a save, but doing so would A) result in one of them being hooked instead, and B) mean that they weren't working on generators, which is the main way to counter camping.
With this system, you at least have a chance. The Killer might chase you again, yes, but it is far better to be running around and actually playing the game than to be sitting on a hook unable to do anything at all. Your teammates can also take a hit to keep you going, or - if they happened to fix the generators while you kept the Killer busy - they might be able to finish the last gen and open a gate for you.
Won't the killers just redown and rehook the person getting them another hookstate even faster?
The only way this system gets you another hook state even faster is if:
- You get the option to unhook yourself very quickly.
- You unhook yourself very early.
- Your chase goes so poorly afterward that the time it takes for the Killer to use your Endurance/wait for it to run out, catch up and hit you again, and carry you back to a hook is less than the remaining time you could have spent in that stage.
It's important to note that you have no obligation to unhook yourself as soon as the option becomes available. You could wait until the very last second before hitting the second stage and then unhook yourself. When you get hooked again, it will only progress to the second stage, which you would have hit a second later anyway. This makes any time you spent getting chased and carried back to a hook a pure bonus.
Why not use the same killer proximity to hook rules to give a gen speed boost?
To put it simply, the system already does something very similar by giving your teammates more time to work on generators. Because you can unhook yourself, they don't need to waste their time when you're getting camped. They can safely go back to repairing knowing that you'll be able to save yourself. Adding to that, the extra time you waste while getting chased after you unhook yourself gives them even more time to repair without the Killer interrupting them.
However, the big difference here is that the system on the PTB also allows the camped Survivor to continue playing in the meantime. Rather than sitting on the hook with nothing to do while their teammates work on generators, they're able to at least run around and be chased.
This would hasten gen speeds which is already the correct play for survivors when facing a camper.
This is the last thing I want to touch on. Nothing about this is untrue, but it's far from what actually happens in most matches. Yes, smashing out gens while the Killer is distracted is the smart move. But more often than not, at least one person will attempt to make the save anyway. Not everyone plays with a coordinated team who knows how to combat camping, and it's simply not realistic to expect all your random teammates to recognize that the Killer is camping and avoid going for a rescue. That said, if they know you'll be able to save yourself, there's very little reason for them to risk their own life to try and save you. Once they see the Killer near the hook, running over is a waste of their time.
So based on the feedback from the PTB that I'm reading, I think my solution of speeding up gen times is the better fix.
There are going to be so many rules around when the timer is allowed to advance. Does a slug near the hook allow the unhook bar to fill? What about breaking pallets or kicking a generator or reloading knives and hatchets from a locker, or just checking a nearby locker? Does there need to be a slight grace period for the killer to leave the area, if so how long should the grace period be?
Speeding up generators is so clean a solution! if it takes the killer 5 seconds to leave the proximity of the hook, the effective speedup on generators is correspondingly small. If the killer chooses to spend 3 seconds breaking a pallet, ditto. In this scenario, the killer has to choose which activity is more important, clean up around the hook or getting back to the generator patrol and chases.
And finally, the most effective hook campers: The Cannibal, Huntress, Trickster are barely inconvenienced by the unhooking. So the system fails to solve the one problem it was meant to fix. BVR Please reconsider this system.
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@Kius said:
I see this """fix"""" as free basekit deliverance 2.0. Nothing else. The hook grabs removed and that alone wasnt enough for survivors to trade or "take one" for the person hooked it's up to the killer at that point.
I just don't understand how many tools the dev's are going to give to survivors for free while keep punishing the killer in the process.. even with the tools they still ignore them and they refuse to adapt.. I don't think it's the game's fault at this rate with all the information out there..
These changes behavior need to make are to preserve the fun of the game. Especially amongst newer players. Their business only works if there is a robust influx of new players that enjoy the game enough to buy a few skins, unlock the battlepass and buy the occassional new dlc. If players experience tunnelling and camping to extremely those new players last 1 game and bounce.
There are tools within game to address many of these things, but ultimately those had to be implemented to curb that bad behavior of killers. Killers were literally detrimental to the game's health.
Personally, I think BHVR is fixing the issues incorrectly but...it's ultimately their game to fix. As long as the game remains fun, I'll play. Patch 6.1 was a blow to me, as it drove off all the friends I used to play with. We used to play SWF and 80% of the time we'd all die anyway, we aren't seal team six. The game has to work for all skill levels or it dies off, it is just that simple.
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@MrCrowBard said:
Unfortunately your proposed solution doesn't fix the problem statement BHVR would have started with. It's not a case of they thought "Face camping is bad and we should push killers for it", face camping is already sub optimal in a lot of cases but it still remains effective. Their problem statement was "Face camping is unfun for the survivor who is taken out of the game and has to just sit and wait out till death".
You can see this in the language used in the PTB notes they released:
"it can quickly become frustrating if the Killer decides to wait nearby, preventing all but the most coordinated of teams from rescuing you. [...] there’s not much the Survivor being camped can do."
The intention of the change if to add more engagement for the hooked player. Simply making gens go faster and the rest of the team having the potential to progress the game to an end state doesn't really change anything for the hooked player who still has to wait around (albeit a shorter time) .
I guess I'm looking at fixing it long term by discouraging the killers into only doing it late game when it might be necessary. I just don't see this fix doing a damn thing other making the game different for the sake of it.