aliquis
aliquis
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Your argument is that survivor in general, and DH, should not be nerfed, because survivor perks suck. That is not true, i listed 5 very strong perks, there are plenty more that are good, some in combination (spine chill with resilience for example to make a vault build).
You either have no idea what you are talking about or are a troll.
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@Gladonos said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2230786#Comment_2230786
...So you wants Keys/DH/IW nerfed. ...But don't worry because you also want a perk that good killers never use nerfed, a killer that I play, enjoy and don't think is OP at all nerfed and a bunch of buffs for killer so that 4k becomes the new standard. You can't even make this ######### up... Not surprised coming from the same forum where I saw a guy arguing that Red Herring is a good perk or all those people who think Counterforce deletes killer totems from the game.
Survivor perks suck. I run DH and BT and half the time the last 2 slots are filled by whatever I feel like at the moment because it barely even makes a difference. People think IW is OP I guess, but ehhh? Just run Stridor, although I admit that is difficult and easier said then done when you have so many good perks to choose from... ;)
Survivor perks suck ? DH, IW, SB, UB, BT just to name a few, are insanely strong. There are countless others too. ?
When i read posts like yours, i wonder, are you serious or just a troll? What level do you play, green ranks ?
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It is how it should be, I remember when undying with blight went live. Oh boy oh boy, even with weak mobile killers, like legion, i could 4k very capable survivors (they looped and did gens all the time, and it was a struggle still). Old undying was busted, people complained rightfully so and it got nerfed (it is still used for mobile killers that spread pressure).
I dont think there is such a thing as perfect balance, but some things are obviously busted( as a killer i am in shock when i play spirit and compare it with the other killers, i can "outplay" almost all tiles against strong survivors with her power that i would need to work hard with mindgames and waste a lot of time with other killers) Same with Deadhard, it is so strong, everyone and their dog knows it. The killer that suffer the most against DH are the weakest ones. They should not nerf to the ground, but make some adjustment. Or another thing , new coldwind farm reworks, cowshed and rotten field comes to mind, the amount of strong tiles (T L, Gyms, and save pallets is a joke when you play a weaker killer), need a rework too.
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Why do some people always try to make this an killer vs survivor argument. A lot of us play both roles and only want what they think is best for the game. I play both killer and survivor, and would like adjustments on both sides: high on the survivor priority list for me is a key/hatch rework (is happening) and a DH and iron will nerf. But i also want a noed rework/nerf, bloodlust (tier2 and above) removed, spirit nerf, and more perks for killer that encourage/reward them to play the 12 hook game.
And i would think that with the change they made to DS, i think it would be good for the game if you could use DS 2 times (since it only works against hard tunneling now anyway) So the people that call for a DH nerf are not just some killer mains that want a easy game.
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Without dh you know you will need to catch the surv 2 times. Already, a good surv is not easy to get 2 times. With dh you wont get him the 2 nd time becaus he will use dh for extra distance to get to a vault/ pallet, but of course only when he needs it(if the killer would catch him a 2nd time) So having to catch a surv 2 vs 3 times is quite significant time difference.
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A good survivor has 3 lives with dh. ( Against a m1 killer). If you play at a high level you are aware that dh for distance is insanely strong, hence ever good survivor runs it. Why is it a problem? Like old ds, this perk is so strong, even if a survivor doesnt have it, killer have to respect it, and in the hands of a good survivor a m1 killer will need to catch the surv 3 times for a down ( when the killer would catch the surv the 2 nd time he will use dh for distance to reach a vault/ pallet), which is not what the game is balanced for. This is only a problem at high level play, bad surv will not use dh to its true potential.
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I have to agree with you. The matchmaking, or lack of it, is making my DBD experience miserable (both as killer and survivor).
(I am rank 1 -2 both killer and survivor). As survivor you sometimes get people that don't do gens (main objective ?) and that manage to go down at impossible speeds. I spend over thousand hours in the game, why do i have to play with people that run away from strong tiles to deadzones, that manage to go down in like 10 seconds full health against a m1 killer, if they just hold shift W it is impossible to go down that fast ? And you never know what kind of killer you are facing. Some games you get a weak killer that doesnt know how to run any of the basic tiles. Then you get a sweaty killer that has thousands of hours and plays spirit with strong addons and perks and slugs for the 4k.
Same as killer, most of the time you get really bad survivors , i often feel bad for them ( why does a beginner get in my games ?) and dont hook them or try to end the game fast to end that boring experience as fast as possible. Then, like 1 out of 10-15 games you play against a strong team that spreads, does gens and everyone knows how to loop. Of course, you are not prepared, and play with a weak killer and basic addons. After you end the first chase 3 gens pop, maybe you get 3 hooks and 1 kill if you decide to hookcamp the last guy.
The bad matchmaking is what ruins it completly for me, i think of quitting dbd. After putting in way over 1k hours, the thing that brings me joy is the competitive nature, i want to interact, play to my best, but you never know what you are up against, its honestly like a waste of time. I play chess too , if i were consistently matched against random people that dont know how to properly play, i would have stopped playing a long time ago (will probably do that with DBD)
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Interesting idea. Im of the opinion that it would be good (for the game) if DH and many other things got adjustments as well..
The idea about DH that i had in my mind was something along the lines, that after a deadhard you can't vault for 5 seconds or something, so that it can still be used to dodge a lunge and for distance, but not if you screw up in a mindgame for example in a gym or shack that you can make it to the vault, you would have to waste the pallet.
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I dont like perks that reduce the killer survivor interaction. If i play killer and i chase a good survivor that has lucky break and iron will, i ll probably switch targets very fast.
I agree that lucky break is in a weird spot, like many other survivor perks. If it were up to me, i would like them to nerf iron will too.
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Been playing DBD for years (survivor and killer), hillbilly was and is still one of the killers i put most of my hours in.
The insta saw addons were op, it was good that they removed them. The overheat mecanic was completly unnecessary. New hillbilly is basically a m1 killer against good survivor. You can't use your chainsaw unless in deadzone (won't happen against any decent survivor) and most tiles are not curveable against a good survivor. He can still get good results in solo q against red ranks (but only because your average red rank survivor is really bad).
To be honest, bubba with double chilli is more fun and stronger then hillbilly nowadays, you have to time your stacks properly and take tight curves around a loop without bumping into them, can down multiple people, and you get through pallets very fast.
The guy thinking you can and could spam hillbilly chainsaw to get easy downs, you are a funny guy and have obviously no clue what you are talking about., its best to ignore people like that.
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I doubt anyone argues that nurse is the most fun killer to go against, but that she is considerable more fun to play against than spirit.
The reason beeing, when she uses her power she gives you information (sound when starting to charge her power, how long she charges, you see in which direction she faces) and you can use that information to make counterplay (double back, locker jukes etc) if you win a mindgame you get rewarded, you gain distance to the nurse, which means she has to charge her blink for longer, which gives you the option to double back or hold W shift andrun to a line of sight breaking spot. Spirit gives you 0 information to make counterplays, you dont even know if and when she uses her power during chase with you. If you win a mindgame against her because you made a correct guess, you wont be rewarded much, her power will be up again soon and you ll have to gamble again.
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If lucky break can allow the survivor to consistently juke midchase and get a head start of a few seconds, to reach another loop/pallet/vault , it will be very strong. Every killer knows, you have to keep the pressure going, one long chase is a lost game against survivors that sit on gens.
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I think that iron will combined with the new lucky break will be a horrible experience for the killer on maps where you can lose line of sight very fast. Most people dont realize the true power of iron will (it is far more powerful then beeing able to hide in some corner injured), good survivor use it to make jukes midchase, because the grunts of pain are missing, they can mind game(fake a direction and double back to get some distance and reach another loop/vault.
Lucky break with iron will combined will probably be so powerful, that the survivor can escape mid chase in a lot of situations, if he can find a good spot to run out of line of sight during chase, which is kind of insane.
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I agree with the sentiment about spirit generally.
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Dead hard and iron will
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There are currently two meta survivor perks i kind of dislike. Iron will and dead hard. I guess it subjective, but i think these perks change everything. I think deadhard is as oppresive, in a sense, as old DS, as killer you have to respect it. Almost all good killers wait with the last m1 on a injured survivor unless they are open field or would deadhard against some obstacle. You have to respect it, even if they dont have the perk equipped. Good survivors use dead hard for distance most of the time, so as a m1 killer you have to catch the survivor 3 times (first time to injure, 2nd time you would catch the survivor he uses dh for distance to get to a vault/pallet/loop and 3rd time you down)
Balance wise, i think the game would be better with a weaker Deadhard (and probably nerfed exhaustion perks as a whole) and a nerfed iron will, of course other things would need to be fine tuned as well, but that would never happen anyway and is just my subjective opinion.
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There are very few tiles in the game where you are save from a spirit (some godpallets for example).
People write that you can mindgame a spirit: You don't know during a chase if the spirit uses her power (no audio/visual cue if you are in the terror radius) The spirit on the other hand gets scratch marks, she hears footsteps, breathing,she sees the grass moving, you can see particles from a vault if you look closly).
Even against a nurse, as a survivor, you see which direction she looks, you get a audio cue when she starts charging her power and for how long, so you get information to use for mindgames (double backing, locker jukes etc). You get 0 information against spirit. Yes you can mindgame a spirit, but it is a pure guess, the mindgame is completly in the spirits favor and you get barely any reward.
I think that the original post is very well thought out and highlights that the spirit has a big advantage in her mobility against other killers.
I think she needs some form of audio or visual cue when she uses her power during chase, so that attentive survivors could react to those cues.
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For the love of god dont compare nurse to spirit. Nurse is 100 times more fun to play against. As funny as it sounds, but at least nurse has some counterplay: you can block her line of sight, double back, etc.
Against a good spirit with good hearing you can do nothing. I don't know anyone that considers playing against a good spirit fun.She can outplay almost all tiles/loops on all maps with her ability and has crazy mobility.
I would like that spirit gets nerfed so that she has some counterplay: for example make it, that you can see if she phases or hear her footsteps (inside terror radius) , that she leaves a afterimage every 2 seconds at her current position when she phases or something like that.
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My dream would be that they make a big patch for the ptb that adresses the balance of the game in a big manner(certain mecanics/killers/items)
Remove Keys, Nerf spirit, nerf noed, nerf iron will, nerf freddy, remove all instant kill addons, remove bloodlust 2 and 3 for a starter
There are so many things that are completly busted balance wise but nothing gets done. It is so frustrating, they have ptbs, why can't they not try some slight adjustments to the problematic things in question, there are so many ways to improve, but it will never happen, or it will take them years to adress these things.
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They should have made the DS change not that drastic.
The issue with DS was that (mostly swf) used it offensivly , go for save unhooks (with DS timer up), bullying the killer, doing gens in his face etc.
I think if they somehow made it that if you perform any action for 1-2 second inside the terror radius or within 30 m or something of the killer, then the timer should deactivate. Only bad players will now run DS, who wants a perk that demands you to do nothing for 60s to give you a chance to stun the killer only if he really comes, downs and picks you up in that timeframe? You dont know if the killer will tunnel you or not when you get unhooked most of the time. Killers switch aggro all the time, they are searching . You wont know if the killer comes to you or not, if he gets in the mood to tunnel or not.
The killer can be in a chase with a good looper not too far from the hook, notices that you get unhooked and decides, nah that the good looper is such a hassle, i ll search the guy that just got unhooked, he went down fast during the first chase, i ll tunnel him out of the game to get a easy win, if the guy has touched a gen or healed in the mean time even if he has the new DS, it doesnt matter, then i dont even need to wait a second to pick him up
The impact of the changes will be: SWF will adapt and not use DS anymore, now they cant bully the killer anymore, a much welcomed thing.
The problem comes with the solo q player. A guy gets unhooked and runs away to heal or start a gen. The killer comes in his direction (maybe coincidence, maybe on purpose because he searched for the poor guy to tunnel him out of the game) People will not use the new DS, but even if they did, the killer can tunnel him (which he could with the old DS too) and doesnt even need to wait a second to pick him up(sees that he touched a gen or healed). We will definitly see a lot more tunneling for the average soloq player.
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I think the main issue with DS was the way swf used it. Going for a safe unhook with a guy that has DS up was the main problem in my opinion.
A lot of swf did indeed use DS offensive (hookbombing) forcing grabs (slow vault, jumping locker, doing gen in the killers face) to bully the killer, but while these things were annoying, balance wise they had no big impact, only the safe unhooks were what i considered problematic. I would have much prefered if they had made it that DS disables when you unhook someone and when the exit gates are powered, would have adressed the issues i saw with it.
I think solo q players will suffer from this change a lot. Less people will run it (no obsession in more games) and killer will learn to disrespect it (like killers learned to wait some time to let DS timer run out if the guy recently got unhooked, now killers will give the unhooked guy a opportunity to touch a gen or heal, so that they can savely pick him up without a wait after the tunnel) , i think there will be a lot more tunneling which is sad.
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The whole discussion about DS is so dishonest. It never prevented tunneling in the first place. The only thing it prevented was beeing picked up for 60s after beeing on a hook. Every good killer learned to play around DS, it was no big deal. The only issue i had with it was when swf groups used it to hook bomb but whatever.
And the people that write that DS still is a great anti tunnel perk have no clue honestly. No good killer facecamps at the hook and then directly tunnels a guy. A good killer spreads pressure and switches targets often, for example if he sees people at gens, infured people or and that is where DS comes in, people he can tunnel out of the game to quickly tip the scales in his favor. When DS was strong and you saw a guy that has not many hookphases left and was unhooked recently you had to make a risky decision, do i tunnel him out of the game or not, he could have DS. Now you dont have to worry, if you find a guy near a gen, self care or healing someone else, you can tunnel to your hearts content. I play both rank 1 survivor and killer and i have already seen the difference. I ruthlessly tunneled guys in strong groups out of the game to get a easy win, which would normally be tough games, didnt eat a single DS and in the after game screen i saw that they had many DS.
I think the game is now much worse. Slugging, tunneling and (proxy) camping are the most unfun strats but they are very strong, so there should be very strong perks that discourage these strats, but the change has been made so whatever.
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DS gives survivors 60s immunity to get picked up and while that is correct, it exaggerates its effect.
True, If a killer facecamps a survivor and tunnels him straight off the hook then yes, the survivor with DS will have 60s immunity to be picked up and waste a lot of the killers time, since said killer wants to tunnel the victim as fast as possible out of the game. Mind you, the killer can still proxy camp the corpse after the down and pressure near gens to waste less time before he picks up.
If you are not a facecamping killer, for arguments sake, it will take some time for you to encounter a unhooked survivor, lets say 15-20 sec. Then you go into a chase with the survivor, lets say you down him fast in 20 sec. WOW, you will have to wait for 20 whole seconds, again you can use that time to pressure some nearby gen before you pick up, big deal.
The problem i see is, that against 4 very good survivors you have to use some sort of tunneling/ (proxy)camping and slugging to achieve results/create enough pressure. DS unbreakable and bt counter all those strong strats, so you basically have no chance to perform good against a very good team. The other side are the solo q survivors, without comms, usually with 1-2 potatoes in their team(even in red ranks). They need these crutch perks against slugging tunneling and camping. The killer can still achieve very good results against the average solo q red rank survivor team anyway. Like some day ago i played some games without perks and addons and still 4k against all red ranks. I usually play without addons and still perform very good. Most good killers get 4k almost any game.
I think the most important aspect.that needs tp be fixed. hopeful soon, is the matchmaking.
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Who are these killers that complain about DS ? I play both killer and survivor at rank 1, and i think DS is not only fine as it is but it is very important because it discourages tunneling. When i enter a game as a killer and there is no obsession i immediatly know that it will be a easy game, because i can proxy camp the hook and tunnel them out of the game if i choose to.
I agree with the guy above me, i think tunneling and camping are boring and unfun for both sides and any perks, like bt and ds that prevent that need to be strong and its a good thing if they are meta.
Its so funny, the perks some killer complain about the most are ds bt and unbreakable, all perks that help against camping/tunneling and slugging, the most unfun ways to play in the game. So the question who these killers are and how they play answers itself. As a rank 1 killer i have no problem with these perks because my playstyle doesnt rely on camping, tunneling and slugging so i hope that they do not get nerfed.
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I always wonder who these killers are that cry about ds und unbreakable? Most killer games are boring and way too easy. The matches against competent survivors may not give you many or any kills at all, but the chase interactions and mind games make them the most enjoyable.
I take a challenging game where i get no kill against a good survivor group any time of the day instead of a boring easy 4k against potatoes.
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I like this idea a lot too. I think they should give survivors the option to show their perks if they want to to the other survivors in the lobby (maybe by pressing a button or toggle).
Basically survivor even in solo queue already have this ability, by using the chat. Unfortunatly it gets rarely used. Sometimes people say they have plunderers but even that is rare.
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The fun games, with lots of challenging chase interactions are a minority for me too. When i play survivor(rank 1-2) i get matched against a competent killer about 50% of the time is my guess, so it is about half the matches you afk the gens or loop a killer that doesnt know how to loop.
As rank 1-2 Killer i very rarly get a competent team of survivor (maybe like 10%) Most of the time there are two red rank that know how to loop and the other two are not good. Often even 3 players are not really good. It feels i play against bots and i feel sorry for them. I have ended a lot of games with 5 gens up and everyone dead on 1st hook or something similar or i need to search the whole map because the survivor are so afraid and hide in some corner. it feels like a complete waste of time and i feel bad about it, because it is unfair to play against people that have played way less hours than yourself.
And then survivor queues seem to be very long lately and sometimes i get on a server with yellow ping. So i need to wait for a few minutes and then leave the lobby, because looping with a yellow ping is pointless. And most killermatches are boring because they are not even remotly even.
Therefor i am currently not really enjoying myself either.
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After thinking about it for a while, i have to agree with the sentiment in this thread. In the new UI- everthing seems to be split up all over the screen and i have to agree that this is too much. I am not against change and i would not have a problem if some things get split up, but everything and all over the screen? It seems like they completly changed their design philosophy almost.
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I think the criticism is blown a bit out of proportion but still to a degree true. First, we should give the new hud a chance (i am rank1 survivor and killer with 1000 hrs, so i am kind of invested in this game too).
I personally have no problem with the information split up. to a degree: that interactions that give bp are now at the top right is irrelevant, the new hookcounter is nice, but not a point you will look often. Perks stay at the same place, but survivors and gens completed are now split up. I think these should be in close proximity on the screen, i look at them both as survivor and killer a lot, because they show the pressure either side currently faces and how the game goes.
So my suggestion would be to move the gens completed from top middle closer to the top left. Other than that i would argue that it is fine.