WolfePhD
WolfePhD
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- WolfePhD
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@Emeal said:
All I know is that someone that works at BHVR is going to have a very, very, very, very, very, very long day at work for the next few weeks in response to the wave.
What makes you guys really think that data dump isn't just someone finding your data and exporting it? Like you think a thing you can only request two times a year. "HAHAHA we are owning BHVR." I understand the tongue in cheek glee you have about this.
Except BHVR is a based workplace, nobody is going to have longer work days than normal if they don't want to. Furthermore they can easily just delay it and be like, ahem "Due to a large influx of requests, your data may be delayed."
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3873228#Comment_3873228
Cherry-picking one’s own experience can be a common pitfall, and it's something worth considering,
so What makes you think everyone is "comp-brained"?https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3873517#Comment_3873517
I just think it's weird to introduce a competitive matchmaking system and not tell people where they stand.
Please consider if the implementation of the matchmaking system was not to encourage competitive, but just to ensure a better match quality than the previous system. I honestly don't think BHVR made the changes specifically to make the game competitive.
Honestly it seems the moment you guys heard MMR you started chanting the Pokemon Anime song,
🎵 I wanna be the very best, Like no one ever was. dun-dun-dudum 🎵🎵This seems to be the initial thought process both of Choy and many others I see who talk about this visible MMR.
Like cant you? Can you not see why a game could have a SBMM system, but not be intentionally a competitive game necessarily?
or was it confusing that BHVR hosted that tournament like one time?I'm sure BHVR is happy we each enjoy the game in each of our ways, but to extrapolate from that and say, "this game is now competitive" and other stuff is a stretch in my opinion. Many games can have MMR and not be competitive.
I guess I am looking at the bigger picture. What is currently happening between Choy and BHVR is a live communication event. BHVR has already set the rules ("No public MMR.") and Choy found a way to circumvent that. This is a reflection of the relationship between the player base and the developers. Choy found a metaphorical gun and pointed it at BHVR the first chance he got. No matter how BHVR responds to this situation, things have already escalated. Not to hostility per se, but I don't think happy people playing a happy game made by happy people would act like this. This is described in Choy's video where he acknowledges what he is doing isn't cool, but is justified because BHVR fired a whole bunch of people … and should have known they needed resources on standby for when the community wanted more control over the rulebook? To me, this is a power struggle. There is severe concern that the community is going to look for similar patterns to communicate with the developers moving forward. The reason I labeled this thread Armageddon is because this whole situation reflects a turning point in the community culture.
I don't remember a time in the past where the community intentionally gave developers … more work … to get something. Any resources spent working on frivolous privacy requests is less resources working on a full chapter, bug fixes, new cosmetics, etc.
I am not a lawyer, and I am not going to study and become one to fully understand the nuance behind global privacy laws. Deep in my gut, I know that most laws are written with built-in protections to avoid being exploited beyond the original intention. At the same time, there is an inherent right granted by the law — and two attempts per year for a massive audience is still a LOT of work that just magically appeared out of thin air because an upset player with an agenda isn't happy with the current state of the game. If there is an inherent time limit to GDPR requests, and if BHVR isn't able to keep up—I believe they would be fined accordingly. Part of me wonders if that was Choy's true intention — to clog the system with requests so the developers have to act or "pay" a cost.
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@crogers271 said:
1: It's not going to cost BHVR a lot of money. Hire a couple of interns to field the requests if necessary. It's an annoyance.
2: They might be rewriting their privacy policy. At the moment I can't access it.
2A: Arguably MMR isn't part of 'your' data anyway. That's a record keeping on their end.
3: The data isn't really understandable. As the streamer seems to be confused on why Pig is his highest rated killer.
4: The Streamer actually explains why BHVR wants this data hidden - 'people will need to show their MMR receipts'. That's not going to help because it will just lead to discounting people who aren't high MMR and if a person does show high MMR and people don't like their opinions, they'll be accused of photoshopping the MMR.
4A: This would also lead to people sweating to max out their MMR. Now, in the long run, I'm not sure I have a problem with this, because I think it would require BHVR to fix a lot of things that are broken with their game, but it might make fundamental changes necessary.
5: Him having to use Chat GPT to calculate proportions makes me sad.
9.2 You will not have to pay to exercise your legal rights above. However, we may charge a reasonable fee if your request is clearly unfounded, repetitive or excessive. Alternatively, we could refuse to comply with your request in these circumstances.
They could recoup the cost by charging MMR fees if they can argue it is repetitive for the users who used the boilerplate template—at the cost of their reputation. -
@Nazzzak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3873221#Comment_3873221
Yeah, the silver lining would be all the people who think they're high MMR finding out they're actually not lol
I agree though it would be treated like a progression mechanic to the detriment of the game. People would do whatever it took to get to high MMR, then once there and facing the best players the game has to offer we will all have to hear their complaints that BHVR need to make the game easier for them to compete. Nah, my opinion is keep them hidden.
It really depends on how those players react. Even if they region-lock it to GDPR only, those players supposedly have the ability to request their data twice per year. This means that BHVR would have to hire more people to handle the expected forever increase in traffic … or bow down to Choy’s checkmate and kiss the ring like he wants so badly. If BHVR changes the output or process from the video to mask MMR, Choy would double down out of spite and the Ouroboros would continue. The video he made was very clearly intentional to get a reaction out of Behavior. Now we have to see how they respond.
I knew someday that all these years of playing a strategy game so often, so frequently would result in something like this. At a certain point, cultivating a group of people to outsmart each other ultimately led a fan to outsmart the developers at their own game while still playing by the rules.
I really do think that we are going to wake up to a new DBD when all the privacy requests are processed and the community begins to put the pieces together. This past week will be one big plot episode for DBD.
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@[Deleted User] said:
At the very least, I hope this leads to some more nuanced discussion around the system. It's not this elementary thing that goes up and down by 20, where everyone is always 5 wins away from "high" MMR or "low" MMR.
But also this thread will probably get deleted within 20 minutes.
And I'd be shocked if these information requests weren't automated.
I don't see a reason why the thread would be deleted. Little WolfePhD on the forums calling attention to a massive operational problem they are going to deal with won't change the fact that 17,000 people have already watched the video on YT. When the other big content creators hear about it and make videos—that's when the problem officially starts for Behavior and that poor employee.
The information requests may be automated to a point, but a real person has to make verify you are allowed to request that data. If I told BHVR I am edgarpoop and I want all of edgarpoop's private data, they can't just give it to me out of convenience or laziness.
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The Demogorgon is such an iconic and legendary killer, but he feels bad to play. I played one match and then never again.
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@JPLongstreet said:
Ummmmm are these some Steam stats?
With the game out in like 8 platforms this only shows a portion of the global playerbase, doesn't it? Anyway this game has always had its trends and cycles when it comes to active players.
Thank you for discounting hours of work because analyzing trends from a well known data source wasn’t good enough for you.
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@Na1ts1rhc said:
Don't be silly, I doubt this has even crossed their minds. We are not children… most of us at least. BHVr isn't going to scold us for bad behavior nor should they. Back to reality please
Awareness is the first step towards resolving a problem.
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@Lixadonna said:
I've seen it said multiple times this week but are Survivor really going around throwing pallets? Do people have Bond and witness this?
Windows of Opportunity is a very common Survivor perk. I've always trusted these arguments because they would see the pallets fall over if they use Windows, and I've spent at least 1000 hours using Windows of Opportunity alone over the years.
@Malkhrim said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3872237#Comment_3872237
Yeah, but why should he talk about those? The title of the video is "This is what I hate about DbD…", not "Everything wrong with DbD right now". God forbid having personal tastes.
People should stop demanding everyone to be neutral and unbiased all the time regardless of context and talking as if personal bias was some unforgivable sin that takes all your credibility. Everyone has opinions, biases and personal experiences, and it's not possible to just turn them off. It shows up even when someone is trying their best to be professional, it shouldn't be held back in a video that is making clear to be about things one dislikes based on personal experience.
Also, I would argue the Vecna map is actually killer sided. Having bad stuff for both sides doesn't mean it doesn't favor a side over the other, and the killer is usually the one that gets to choose how bad will the map be for the match: just ignore the underground gens, protect the ones in the surface, don't go to the main building unless every survivor is there, and as long as you keep at least 3 gens up there, you get a smaller map with quite a small number of pallets or decent loops that survivor HAVE to traverse at some point if they want to win.
I would say that I play Dead by Daylight 40% Killer / 60% Survivor. To me, it doesn't really matter if Vecna's map is killer or survivor sided. It's one of those maps that put me in a bad mood when I get forced to play on it, in either role. Calling the map "Poop Castle" is a really good way to describe the experience of slogging through it. The underground area is extremely visually interesting to compensate for how boring and uninteresting the upper floor of the map is—but you tend to get chased where the map is boring because four generators are above ground. For Killers, you never want to enter the castle for any reason — but that means you spend the entire game in the most boring part of the map.
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https://youtu.be/rJ6ZWyPL7to?si=EQbyXL-1j55COr9F
I'm not sure if the developers are going to take the community seriously if we really try to run with "Make Hooks Great Again".
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I hope the developers read this thread and reintroduce the “no” gesture from DBD Mobile to Core. We have no ability to tell players “no” in the current game. When it’s clear to me that my teammate is cleansing Haunted Ground, I need to communicate “no” to them.
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I can’t speak from fact, only my personal observations playing the game here. From playing 8-hook, 0-kill killer, I have noticed that my base matchmaking tends to be 1 very good survivor, 2 normal survivors, and 1 very weak survivor. If I play very well and climb up the MMR, the quality of survivor tends to increase — but I know deep in my heart from playing that matchmaking makes a dedicated effort to put veteran players in new lobbies. I will often see a P100 and another player with yellow perks at the end of a match and scratch my head. At the same time, it makes sense—the best way for new players to learn counterplay is to watch my behavior.
Example - Crouching counters Hag trap activation.
When I see posts like this, I always wonder if it comes from the perspective that you are the “expert” survivor being put into a new-er lobby to “guard and teach” the new players. I can’t definitely conclude anything, but I can share my thoughts and perspective on the topic.
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All I really want is to go against a Pinhead and not have the game finish before the first generator pops. I am a veteran player but I could not explain to someone what his counter-play is on a basic level. Every time I go against a Pinhead, another player tends to quit/DC/suicide before the first generator in solo-queue. At that point, I’ve already joined the fodder to go next.
I don’t think the developers should inherently change characters because they are disliked, but there is something about him that causes people to not want to play the game … and it seems more than the usual.
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I am an American and I do not watch anime. At the same time, I encourage the developers to make content that is more suitable for other regions and cultures. Not every chapter needs to be “made” for me. Before their chapters, I never played Alan Wake or Dungeons and Dragons in my life—but I still enjoyed them in DBD and I learned more about their worlds through the game.
On a base level, we know that play-styles differ between cultures—but I think Hens and Otzdarva have only scratched the surface on regional DBD differences. It makes 100% business sense for a company to try something new and market their game to a new demographic. Looking backwards, I wonder if the Eastern DBD community feels alienated if 4/4 main chapters every year are not really made for them. They don’t have an Otzdarva equivalent to make a map and compass for new players. They don’t have the benefit of speaking the same language as the developers. I think we owe it to them to let them be represented and get content that is meaningful to them.
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I know I am late to the thread, but I still wanted to give my thoughts. As a superfan, I understand that years of playing a multiplayer strategy game as my main hobby has made me think strategically, at a high and intense level, in and out of DBD. For that reason, I feel I truly understand where people come from when there is cause for concern that BHVR might make a change that kills the game. My first thought when I saw the news was to telegraph how this would be applied in future situations—but I just don't think that is the intention.
At the same time, I am worried that the DBD community is indirectly trapping BHVR in continual Catch-22's. The other day, I was watching a DBD video (I think Horceror?) where the developers were criticized for tainting PTB's by not having appropriate matchmaking in place to validate any results on strength and performance. I'm not good with time, but I personally have been under the assumption this entire time that BHVR watched the same video that I did, and immediately implemented a change to fix the problem moving forward because they recognized it was a serious problem that needed to be addressed. Shouldn't we be celebrating that behavior? If the developers are actually taking time to listen to the community and even watch the same YouTube essays I watch while I eat—that means they are just as committed to the world of Dead by Daylight as I am. For that reason, I think they should be given some trust.
I know that my observation is not fact—and I am drawing conclusions on pathos and not logos—but that is just what I believe. It does not make sense to me that BHVR would make any move to hurt the game or "kill" it. It is clear to me as a player that Skull Merchant's chapter changed something very high up at BHVR because the way they acted before Tools of Torment versus now has changed completely. Sometimes I get the impression the community is not allowing the game development company to be game developers.