Stormhaven13
Stormhaven13
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Yep, it starts regressing all of the gens as if you had kicked them. Higher ranks regress them faster than normal is all.
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@TheMonadoBoi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1511188#Comment_1511188
Lmfao. And they actually had the audacity to say "the system is able to predict the outcome of matches with extreme accuracy."
Well it might be, if we give it time now to gather the data. Only one way to find out!
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@MonsterInMyMind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1511188#Comment_1511188
Yikes imagine right running the system in the background and it didn't even gather data LMFAO
I can't tell you exactly what happened, as I am obviously not on the dev team :P But this is such a huge overhaul that we should expect things to be a bit chaotic for a few weeks.
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A post from a mod I saw said the data they gathered wasn't as good as they hoped, so most players are still effectively at 0.
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I think this is a separate, but related, problem honestly. Assuming the new system stabilizes and performs as its intended (Which I'm hoping it will), this will become much less common, but will still be possible. An MMR system is designed so this will happen, but should be decently rare. However with a game like DBD, being a new player against an experienced player is really hard. My thought was maybe a separate section of people who are in their first 100 games or so. They could leave it at any time, but would give them the ability to only play against other new players. I don't know enough about the size of the player base, or balance in general to know how good an idea that is though.
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@adalesmo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1510825#Comment_1510825
Do we? They said we need roughly 10 games to get a "base". Should a 6,000 hour legacy survivor with over 30 games since MMR was added really wind up in the same lobby as someone with 11.7 hours total in game? Or in another one wind up with someone who is literally playing THEIR FIRST game ever? Because this is definitely happening.
This is the worst I've ever seen matchmaking.
Honestly I think that "10 games" shouldn't have been said at all. That sounds to me like the ideal, when the whole system is working, not when the system is getting up and running. I understand there's a lot of frustration with playing with newer players, I get it. If it continues like this it absolutely needs to be resolved. But based on the evidence I've seen, both myself and in the forums, I'm not certain this will continue. I've seen quite a few people say that for them this stops once they've played enough.
@johnmwarner said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1510825#Comment_1510825
The excuses will continue in a month, then the line will be "well your MMR is right but everyone else may be just coming back," blah blah blah
I'm sure it will, but they won't be from me. I'm not defending the matchmaking system, I'm just saying to give it some time to see what it's really like before you rail against it. I don't know myself whether its good or bad, just that what's happening now isn't great. But I expected this to happen, so it doesn't surprise me.
@RoMainPuppy said:
If MMR HAS been calculating in the background (as one dev said) then no one should be getting paired up with newbies (except newbies themselves). Newbies should not have the MMR to go against people with hundreds of hours (even if not on the current killer you're playing) unless they're a smurf playing on a new acct and their skill highly outweighs their "playtime."
2) If MMR is just a blank slate set at 0 right now as another dev said, they still should've INITIALLY gone off of ranks, then based off how they play set them higher or lower as needed on the MMR scale as needed (so say they're a "Rank 1" as of old ranks currently currently, but based off MMR they actually play like an MMR "Rank 7" then the system could pair them with other MMR "Rank 7's" after their primary games, as it is now though it's a totally newbie stomping fest). Either way newbies should never EVER play against people with over 50-100 hours.
Playtime should've been a factor in MMR, it's obvious it's not. Even if you've never played a certain killer before if you've played the game for more than a hundred hours you at least know the basics of PLAYING killer, even if not that specific one, however a genuinely new player won't know that. Hell even if the majority of your playtime has been spent playing SURVIVOR you'd still know more about playing killer than a complete newbie.
What I've seen is its a mix of both. It was calculating in the background, but the data it gathered was imperfect, so more players than they expected were basically a clean slate.
While I understand your point about building in a transitional system, that would have been an enormous amount of coding and testing for something that would have ended up being pointless in a month, and potentially removing that system could have cause numerous problems. This situation sucks, I totally agree with that, and these next few weeks will be pretty bad, especially for new players. But my point is lets wait and see exactly what the situation is after 2 days.
I definitely understand your point about playtime, I just don't know how that would be implemented honestly. I'm a fairly good killer, so even when I'm playing a new killer I absolutely shouldn't be going up against Rank 20s or whatever the new equivalent is. The idea is after 10 games of me being at neutral, it would put me into whatever category I belong in, approximately, and I work up and down from there. We can debate how good the execution of it was, but having very good players go up against new players was inevitable with the new system. The reason its so prevalent right now is ALL players are being treated as new players, so its happening significantly more often than it normally would. Some sort of "wading pool" for new players could be a potential solution, and after your first 100 or so games you can't go back into it so players can't force themselves back in. That is a separate, but important, problem from the majority of complaints about the new system, and probably belongs in a separate section.
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The system needs some time to get everyone's baseline, so this is to be expected for the time being. Give it more than two days and (hopefully) this will stop happening. This is to be expected for a little while.
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Folks you need to give this more time than 2 days. Yes, it is possible the system isn't working properly, but we do not have the data yet to show that. It's very possible there's any number of things going on, from negative report bias (Which makes sense, as it isn't fun to be in matches like those), to the fact that there are a lot of people playing, and they are all having MMRs that need to settle yet. My personal theory is that with everyone starting at 0, and going up and down from that, there's going to be a lot of people who are very close in MMR and so they aren't getting accurate results yet, and the whole "10 games" thing lowballed it. Give it a little more time to make sure that this keeps happening over the next week.
Also, a Mod has said that while the system WAS running in the background, the data gathered wasn't perfect, and so the system needs more time to get players MMRs correct. This was always going to be a major overhaul, it was not going to be perfect right away. None of this surprises me. If it doesn't get better after about 2 weeks, that's when I'll start to get worried.
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@ProveKa said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1510268#Comment_1510268
I can't understand why you're defending dbd.Collect new matching system data while the old system is in progress.Only dbd management can make such a ridiculous decision and you defend them meaninglessly.While there are more important problems in the game, they are trying to break down whatever works right
They did that, but they said the data wasn't perfect, and only did so much. This honestly was to be expected when implementing a new system this massive, there was always going to be growing pains.
Secondly they are not trying to break down what works right, at least not in this case. People have been complaining about matchmaking for years, it has always been screwy and didn't work well. The ideas behind this change are good, and we won't know if the execution is good unless we give it some time. If its this way in 2 weeks I will be front of the line demanding change, but we do not currently have enough data to say whether or not this works or not.
Finally, I am not, as you put it, "defending the dbd devs". I am not even really defending the matchmaking system, not really. I am saying that we need patience. This was always going to be a system that took time to get right, and anyone who knows something about data gathering and analysis knows that. But most people are not being patient, and are simply reacting. I understand where some of that comes from, the devs do not always have the best track record of listening to the player base, especially from the player bases' perspective. But this is not a case of "wait for the devs to listen to us and fix it". This is a case of "we don't know enough about how the system works because its been out for two days". Feedback is fine, and should be encouraged! But people need to keep in mind that we won't have a clear idea how this thing works for probably at least a week. My personal bet is at least two weeks for all this to stabilize into something predictable. At that point we can see if the system is good, needs tweaked, or needs to be removed. Calling for it to be removed before that point is not helpful, and does not help the devs learn what needs to be changed. Everything that's happening was to be expected in the first few days. If you didn't expect it, that's something to critique, as I believe the devs should have warned the player base before hand, and given us more information.
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That's not how its going to be forever. Imagine in the old system if the entire player base got reset to Rank 20. Things would be pretty similar to how they are right now. That's basically what's happened. But just like in that scenario, if we give it enough time, the really good players will start to build up a higher MMR score and things like that will stop happening so often. It's been out for barely two days. Give it some time.
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@BillyMain77 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1510611#Comment_1510611
I was just in the post called we demand to be shown our mmr score or something and i believe her name is mandytalks or something similar to that is a mod and said they do not intend to show us any part of the score as then it could be manipulated ect.
Yep I was in the same thread. They were not 100% sure, though they believed that. It doesn't mean we will have no information, just not an explicit score. They could give us absolutely nothing, and if that's the case I don't love that, but we don't know anything for sure right now.
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From what I've seen they're going to give us more information "soon". However be aware I've also seen in the same discussions that they likely will not give us "the math". I personally was of the same mind, but the reasoning not to is that if everyone knows exactly how it work it becomes very easy to game the system. So expect more vague stuff whenever it comes.
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@BillyMain77 said:
To say that they keep the ranks hidden is stupid. What are players suppose to work for then? Not everybody that plays this game wants to just go in and goof off in the game.
Some of the experienced players we enjoy the more technical parts of the game, like linking perks together to make plays like using unbreakable with soul guard to save a team mate from a camping killer then save with BT to save a team mate.
Or efficient looping combined with mind games to out play the killer.
Newer players havent been playing long enough to know these things yet.
So when im searching for team mates to play with i can no longer be like searching for red ranks? I dont wanna play just to play and have fun, i wanna be competitive and feel like im better than the killer.
Nothing is better than playing a game and watching the killer lose his rank because he over committed to chasing me or a team mate and lost the game because of it.
As well as having bragging rights over your buddies about whos the better.
Watching your buddy depip because he didnt do enough last game gives us something to laugh about while we wait 30 minutes for our next match as well as now he knows he needs to maybe do an extra gen or be more altruistic next game to make sure he gets his rank back.
It might not be that way forever. They rushed this out without making a UI system or changing ranks because (in their mind) the actual matchmaking is more important. Now, I have not heard for sure how they are going to display the ranks to players, or if they will at all. I have heard that they are giving us more information about the system in general "very soon", I believe some sort of FAQ. However, the general reason for not giving players rank information is to avoid players gaming the system. How much BHVR will end up sharing however, I have no idea.
This is honestly my biggest critique of the devs for this process, whatever information they are planning on giving us "soon" should have been available before the system came out. That is one of the largest sources of confusion right now, that no one really knows what to expect out of this system. I'm not talking about the people complaining that they've played 2 games, so the whole system sucks, that's just reactionary. But the other people who are legitimately confused about this stuff and how MMR systems work in general, that could have been fixed by explicitly warning your player base that matchmaking will be a little chaotic for a bit. That's technically been done, but not in a succinct, easily accessible way. It should be top of the forums, big news post. But instead people have to go searching in forum posts to get answers from forum admins who only have so much information.
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@SpookyToad said:
Oh okay, thanks guys <3
No worries! Good luck in your games, hope you have fun.
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@JustZed32 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1510256#Comment_1510256
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/5X4H2IZANTDD/img-20200804-224349.jpg
I'll prefer not playing too weeks then playing and getting bullied by guys who have 1k+ hours and me who has like 20 or 30, not much more
Then don't play for a bit. This whole time should honestly be considered sort of like a PTB. Being a new player and going against experienced ones sucks, I get it. I've been there. If you're not having fun, take a break and come back later. This is a massive overhaul, it's going to be a bit chaotic for a while.
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@phantom_Angel said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1507956#Comment_1507956
Any idea when they started that, or how I can check my skill level?
It happened literally yesterday, so things are a bit chaotic right now. It will take time for it to stabilize. There is currently no way to check your skill level, we're going to be getting more information soon about how the system works. They wanted to get the fixes out for the matchmaking system out quickly, so new UI and the ranking system changes aren't done yet. Be patient, this will likely take at least a week or more to stabilize a bit. Play at least 10 games, that should get your ranking closer to correct at least, and if you're not having fun come back in a week or two. Hopefully things will be better then!
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Folks, be patient. It will take some time for the system to stabilize, at least a week is my guess, maybe more depending on how much people play. Struggle through for the time being, see what happens. It's been out for a day and a half, this is going to take some time. If you haven't played at least 10 games, start with that. Even if that doesn't fix it, remember everyone else needs to do the same, that will take time. Patience is key here, day 2 means nothing. If it starts being week 2 with no change, then start worrying.
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@SpookyToad said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1510263#Comment_1510263
That's the problem, this
MMRis not sorting players correctly. Well yes, rank does not matter on search, but it feels like i am playing with 2K+ hours player and unable to win at all!This is a new system, and it takes about 10 games (at least, according to a forum admin) for the algorithm to correctly determine a players place. It's only been out for a day and a half, be patient, it will likely be at least a week or two for things to properly stabilize.
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@ProveKa said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/PQ1WCSW9R67J/denge.png
Can someone explain to me the logic of having someone new to the game paired with rank 1 killer
This will not be forever. This is just like that while the rank 1 killer gets an actually accurate MMR. Imagine it like everyone's rank basically got reset back to the beginning. I believe that's basically what's happening right now. It will right itself if people give it some time. An admin said in another thread it takes around 10 matches for the algorithm to stabilize, and remember that's 10 games per person, so this is going to happen for awhile. Be patient, and wait for things to settle down.
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@Mandy said:
@Stormhaven13 we will have more information made available on the forums that will answer a lot of questions, over the coming days.
Cool awesome. Thanks for the quick response!
@Drakkit said:
So it's sucks for me. I get matched with idiots that don't have a clue how to play survivor ranked against a killer that puts us all on the hook in 2 minutes. This game isn't fun anymore. 10 matches in a row I've gotten killers way better than me and the people i'm grouped with are clueless. All this algorithm is doing is making me have to look for a new game to play.
Read this whole thread. It takes at least 10 games for the algorithm to stabilize, and I honestly wouldn't expect everything to be fully stable for at least a week, maybe longer.
@JustZed32 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1510143#Comment_1510143
Yes, as a new player i can say that GAME IS WORSE NOW
WHAT IS THIIIS. This. Is NOT. Fair. Bill litterally just bought the game, nice?
We litterally couldn't make ANY GEN
The next game, cool? Yeah, yeah, new MMR is so cool, keep it up bhvr
If you're new, this might be a rough time for you, and you might want to wait a week or two for this to stabilize, it seems like everyone's ranks have reset (basically). After that, hopefully it will be much better. That's the idea.
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@MandyTalk Do you know if they planning on ever giving any info on how the MMR works? I had made the assumption they'd give at least a little data once it had been out for a bit, but that could've been a faulty assumption. I personally would like a general idea at how well I'm doing, though I do understand why it would be have to be hidden.
Also, about ranks, they had said they were going to change what it means, potentially make it linked to a reward system, but they were more concerned about getting the new matchmaking system up and running first.
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@Zeidoktor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1508561#Comment_1508561
I think the idea is that, if they've been collecting data for weeks/ months, a good amount of that calculation should already be done.
I get that, but given everything I've seen I'm not sure how much they've actually done honestly, and I'm not sure how much the people who are complaining played during that time, because I can't be for obvious reasons. They've put out so little information on the new system its hard to judge any of this, which is why we have to give it a little time to see how often this stuff happens.
I played all day yesterday, and didn't have any of what others are seeing happen. Doesn't mean it isn't happening, it obviously is. It's valid feedback, they might need to tweak exactly how new players get into the system, but calling for the whole system to be reverted after playing less than half a dozen games is not helpful for anyone. That's not how data collection and analysis works, you can't know the whole system is broken from that little data.
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They've said they're working on a fix, but no ETA as of now.
EDIT: Spelling mistake
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@Ferixstar said:
For me, it’s been very obvious that the players I play against have been affected by the previous game’s outcome:
Killer: Last night I played as The Clown, which I rarely do well as, and the survivors I went against had maybe one perk and were obviously new. I did very well against them. After about 2 games like that (still as The Clown), I noticed that the survivors I was going against started getting better and having better perks.
Survivor: As a formerly red rank survivor (since rank doesn’t matter anymore) my first few survivor games were against baby killers. One perk (if any at all) and very obviously new to the game. After a few games like that, I started going against killers who had P3 skins and who very obviously knew how to play that killer.
So, to me, it seems as if the matchmaking is working much better than it was. Like others have said, it looks like it just takes a few matches to get it figured out.
It's definitely not perfect yet, but similar things to this need to be seen by more people. You can't just play less than a half dozen games and expect your ranking to be correct immediately, it takes time for these kind of systems to work out where you belong. You basically have to imagine that everyone got reset to rank 20 (that's the closest analogy that I can think of) and now people have to work their way back up. Feedback is fine, but give it more than a day to settle before calling for the whole thing to be torn down.
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That seems to be a reasonable suggestion. I've seen a lot of people complaining about the new system without sufficient data to really give any conclusions, so I'd really like the devs to release some information on exactly how the new system works as well. There's been enough people seeing completely new players in matches they don't belong in that its likely an issue and not just an outlier.
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@anphex said:
I just want to throw my chips in too as a survivor main. I am rank 6, Claudette as main and consider myself a commited casual but this new matchmaking feels off.
Before I never had an issue with the matchmaking. Of course when you start fresh on a new season like everyone else ranks may be inaccurate at the beginning but normally it balances out after a few days of playing. So when I queued as Rank 6-7, I knew I would get similar team mates who knew the meta more or less and games were fun.
With the new system now I had 4 games, all of which I was paired with low rank survivors and mixed killers. Sometimes a few high rank survivors too. In all of the games at least one of the survivors behaved noticebly like a newbie, making bad decision you would have made too at 0-20 hours playtime. As I understood, there was implemented some data magic and maybe drawn some too straight conclusions, but for me it just is less fun this way. Have you ever played Texas HoldEm against complete beginners? That's how every match feels. You can't rely on the survivors as you could with the old system in the higher ranks.
Please bring back the old ones or implement a matchmaking that adjusts the survivor ranks.
Writing this now a thought came to my mind: Maybe the Devs actually don't want the survivors to have meta team work?
I don't mean to try and invalidate your experience, because if that's your experience, it is what it is. But many, many people have been complaining about the current matchmaking system for years. Maybe give it more than a day before completely condemning the new system before they've even given us any details on how it works, especially if you've only played 4 games with it, which is not enough to be drawing sweeping conclusions.
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@NekoGamerX said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1507501#Comment_1507501
before the released it they say it was already added for a week but wasn't use for MM just to gather data how much data does it need?
It's hard to know from our side, they've told us so little about what exactly is being tracked, it's very hard to predict exactly how much time we'll need. I'd give it at least a week, personally, I'm going to give it a few before I get worried. They're not likely to get it right on the first try anyway.
@IMhereRUN said:
I’m always consistently rank 1 on both sides, the new MMR is pairing me with loads of 17-20 opponents that are CLEARLY new to the game based on their playstyle; not very fun for them to just get annihilated if I’m killer...
After looping a killer all game I just get face camped. I ran a rookie Billy for 9:34 seconds, only 2 gens popped...#########!?
Hmmm that's definitely weird. Happens occasionally though, so could just be an anomaly? I've been playing all day and haven't noticed anything too out of the ordinary. Were you playing much over the last week?
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First of all, the devs made a good point that rank does not necessarily corallate with skill. I'm very good but rarely get above rank 12 because I don't play that often. Someone who is average can get to a very high rank just by playing a lot. It was never an effective matchmaking mechanic, and they have specifically said that you will see more variation of ranks in your lobbies now.
Secondly, it has been out for less than a day. Generally, to get a feel for matchmaking, a system will need a ton of data, which means that the first few days, maybe even weeks depending on the complexity of the system, won't be perfect.
Thirdly, just because that is what you are seeing on the first day does not mean it is an accurate view of the system as a whole. There are going to be outliers on all this stuff, that doesn't mean the system isn't working.
Finally, the fact that it is the first day means that there very well could be bugs to work out, so do please keep reporting them. But maybe don't just assume the whole system is broken because of a few games that were bad. If most people are having that experience for a few days, then go for it.
EDIT: Fixed a spelling mistake, sorry!
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Anything other than the current system would be good, this one makes my wrist hurt very badly. I switched it to the mouse wheel, which is certainly better, but it's still not fun.
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I mean. It's been out for less than a day. Give it time to both gather enough data and so you have enough data to see if that's accurate or just bad luck.
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My guess is they plan to at some point. They haven't even released the criteria, what the rating is based off of. They said they were rushing this out in order to fix the matchmaking as soon as possible. I assumed that meant there would be aspects that would be sub optimal because of this. Obviously, that's true. I'd give it at least a couple weeks for them to send out some sort of follow up message to all this.
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Another thing that I'm not sure if it's been mentioned, but I can no longer see my hex totems unless I'm really close to them. Given that this rift is all about the Hag and her hex totems... It's pretty bad. I'm normally one of the people calling for patience, but if this doesn't get fixed, and I mean fully fixed, soon, things are gonna get bad. This kills anything to do with auras.
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So. The issue here is actually a much deeper issue that I've been thinking about for awhile. And honestly, I don't really know if its fixable anymore. This game base concept has some pretty big issues. This is coming from someone who loves the base concept, by the way. It is built as both a horror game and a competitive game. Now, on the face, this isn't a bad thing, its an intriguing concept. And as we can see by the retaliative popularity of it, for the most part it works. The issue arises from how individual players see the game. Some people see this game as a horror game, and are mostly in it for the "fun and interesting experiences" as I've seen multiple times. But some people see it as a competitive game, and will do whatever it takes to win. Many see it as a mix of the two, everyone will have their own perspective on it. In some ways, that's really cool, a very interesting social experiment in some ways.
The issues happen when two (or more) people's base ideas of what this game is clash at a very fundamental level. For example, a killer trying to live a power fantasy going up against survivors who are just trying to have a good time, or vice versa. Sometimes one side leaves feeling sour, but often both sides do, because to both of them, neither had a fulfilling game, simply because they weren't really playing the same game.
Trying to balance for that. I can't imagine it. It is an impossible challenge, and every decision you make will piss off one part of the community or another because everyone has a different idea what DBD is. This is somewhat true of every game, of course, but DBD has the unique issue of having two base genres mashed together that don't work very well together. Horror and PVP do not have the same goals, which is of course why combining them is so interesting.
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Most of you are talking about vastly different issues than the change that is actually being purposed. Cosmetics and survivor say nothing about player skill, you could be full prestige 3 and have never played the character, or be default skin of a survivor, and be the most skilled player in the game. The item is the only thing that really can change gameplay and that is as easy to switch as it is to switch a character. Most of the complaints, such as SWF balance, should be fixed in other ways, actual game balance. Being able to switch survivors, while annoying, and potentially a pain, does not affect game balance in a significant way. If a SWF group didn't want you to know, they could just play with default cosmetics. That would not fix most of the actual problems that are being said here.
In addition, while killer skill undoubtedly carries over from killer to killer, I understand and appreciate the ideas behind the upcoming matchmaking system, specifically because at the moment it does not sound like it resets constantly. So while playing a new killer you will undoubtedly go up against people that you shouldn't, that will not happen as often (in theory) as with the current resets. I don't play that often, but because of the resets whenever I do, I always go against people who I have no right to be playing with, they have no chance.
The one thing I do agree with is with killer queues being so long, it really would be nice to be able to spend bloodpoints on other killers while you're in a queue. I'm not a programmer, I have no idea how hard that is, but it would be a nice QoL feature. Not game breaking for me, but very nice.
I believe the new matchmaking system has not been implemented yet, though I could be wrong. It will, of course, not be perfect on its test run. However I do think that the ideas behind it are sound, and I hope the execution lives up to it.
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I had this same thing happen to me, it said match server unavailable. My friend in SWF was not disconnected. Its only happened to me once so far.