SnakeManvsArbok
SnakeManvsArbok
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- SnakeManvsArbok
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Downside: they only have two hook stages
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I would recommend Dracula and Nemesis right away. Dracula is a very fun killer with a very dynamic power. Nemesis is a lot more simple, but he really fulfills the power fantasy with his upgraded whip, and his recent buffs have been very kind to him. Both of these killers are pretty strong right now too
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@HeroLives said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3897918#Comment_3897918
and that’s fine, not even a wrong take, but what about new survivors learning mechanics as well just trying not to get tunneled out immediately?
On the flip side there’s plenty of really great killer mains that go full aura on s tier killers that have no problems with loops, just because well they can, and that’s not even counting several thousand hour huntresses that got no real problems hitting their hatchets and are as good with aim prediction as a great nurse with blinks. There’s always the higher end of things to think about, or even the other side with similar(game mechanics) but different struggles(opposite side).
I’m just saying, respectfully.I agree that tunneling feels really bad. I personally only use it if I know I'm against a co-ordinated SWF that is trying to genrush me to hell. Removing a player from the game is undeniably one of the strongest things you can do for gen pressure. The same is true for slugging, because it forces a player to go save them anyway, without the time commitment of hooking. I wish that BHVR would change the balance of the game so that tunneling and slugging wasn't encouraged while slowing the pace of gens down to compensate.
When it comes to newer players, though, I feel like the best perks they can run are info perks like Kindred, Deja Vu, stuff like that. When I play survivor, I love killer aura builds, personally; especially in solo queue
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I'm a 450 hour killer who joined just as the 400% BP bonus for the first 2v8 got reduced. I was drawn in by Dracula, because Castlevania is one of my favorite franchises, and having the character I hyperfixate on be a top 5 in this game is pretty damn nice.
That being said, I feel like a lot of the new killer frustration comes down to "gens fly way too fast". Sometimes, you just enter a game where you get curbstomped by 4 people on comms, sometimes you curbstomp those 4 people and get insulted, games like that just kinda happen.
I am sometimes forced to slug or tunnel to get pressure if a lot of gens pop in my face. I don't enjoy it, I think the slugging and tunneling meta is boring, but it's undeniably strong and often necessary when you have multiple people co-ordinating to gen rush you to hell. A lot of people complain about 4 gen slowdown perk killers, but I feel like there's a deeper problem with that: How are you getting these gen slowdown perks in the first place?
Let's talk about some really popular gen slowdown perk combinations: Pain Res and Dead Man's Switch is very good, requiring two killers you can theoretically get for free. Pop Goes the Weasel is popular and very strong as well, but it is paired best with Eruption, a perk on a premium killer. Deadlock is currently a premium only perk, but will be made free in the near future. Surge WAS free, but is now attached to Demogorgon, one of the killers who goes on sale the least frequently. Nevermind the fact that grinding all the way to Artist, only to then grind her all the way to P3 takes a lot of time, and you'll probably have to do that with numerous killers.
Meanwhile, Unbreakable and Shoulder the Burden, two of the best anti slug and tunnel perks in the game, are also free, with Bill being unlocked for everyone. I wouldn't change this, to be clear, but we should also acknowledge that the best gen slowdown perk that killers start with is Brutal Strength, which barely counts.
Personally, I am all for stuff like the basekit BT, I'm for changing the meta against slugging and tunneling, but I feel like the base killer needs a little built-in gen slowdown as well. I would do the following:
- Reduce the action speed for kicking generators by 20%
- Increase the initial gen regression from a kick to 10% (was 5%)
- Moderately buff the gen regression speed (no exact number in mind)
- Increase the time needed to repair gens
and here's the one i think would help new killers most
- When the generator is repaired to 70%, you are given a loud noise notification, revealing its presence
- Tinkerer is buffed to have slightly longer Undetectable, to compensate for its noise notification being made basekit
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As a 450 hr. player (who does play majority killer out of preference), I feel like the Distortion nerf was very healthy. More experienced players have much better macro gameplay than I do, and can usually hunt down a Distortion player through other intel like gen progress, or deducting who could be going for saves.
The nerf was made in such a way that you still get a lot of value from it if you chase a killer well, but it isn't the "turn off aura perks" button it used to be. I forcing Distortion users to enter chase makes sneaking around against a newer killer much less practical, and forces more gameplay interactions. Realistically, in the hands of someone who can loop well, you're only gonna feel the nerf sometimes, but it makes things for newer players like me who tend to lean into aura perks to help me process the macro better.
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@Skillfulstone said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3892814#Comment_3892814
Bruh;
Endurance
Enduring, Spirit Fury, new Knockout.
Put that on any kind of insta-down/pallet-shredder Killer and it's basically a guaranteed hit/down unless there's a god window/pallet within the next 15m.
No need for Brutal when you can essentially force Survivors to predrop or get downed.
Considering that this would be best on Bubba, Nemi, Hillbilly, and Iri Button Legion, what do you think best fourth perk would be? I'm thinking Surge myself
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@Prometheus1092 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3892780#Comment_3892780
Being slugged is a consequence of being caught. If a player is caught they are hooked or slugged. Both of which immobilise the survivor and means they can't play the match unless someone helps. They agree to this when they play survivor.
Repairing gens might involve all those things but its irrelevant when survivors repeatedly say gens are boring they want chases. Probably because skill checks so easy they might as well not exist. People mostly rely on TR, aura perks and HUD display to tell them where the killer is so there is sense of danger or excitement on a gen. This is made even worse with SWF. Either way THEY say gens are boring not me. THEY say they want chases. Then complain when they get caught and say tunneling and slugging is boring. Sorry they pick this role to do gens, if they don't to do them and want chases, fine. But shouldn't complain when they are caught. they know it's not fun being on a hook or slugged. It's part of the role they chose to play.
Again, I'm not saying killers can't slug if that's what they need to do to get pressure on the board. I also agree that if a SWF is complaining about slugging, that doesn't carry nearly as much weight, since they went in attempting to tryhard the match anyway. As I mentioned in a previous comment, matching the energy of the other side is fine.
What I'm trying to express is that there's a certain line where slugging for the sake of slugging is just kinda toxic. It depends a LOT on the game state, on what the rest of the team brought, a lot of factors, but it isn't a black and white thing, there's a scale here
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@Prometheus1092 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3892688#Comment_3892688
It's not because it's boring, if it was due to being boring survivors wouldn't play survivor at all as sitting on gens is boring. Saying it's boring is a copout, the real reason is because survivors lose because they are willing to endure boring mechanics like gen repair if it means they win.
This is further backed up by the fact that so many survivors like to "go next" yet complain when they are tunneled out. So they don't like being tunneled out fast but do want to go next?
As a killer main, I find it important to mention the fundamental difference when it comes to repairing gens and slugging from a gameplay perspective.
On a generator, you are doing skill checks, which while they aren't hard, failing them can put you in a lot of danger, and even a good skill check can do that depending on killer perks. You're also obviously trying to keep your eyes peeled for where the killer is. Even if they aren't a stealth killer like Ghost Face or Myers, they might be running a perk like Unforeseen or Tinkerer to be Undetectable. You're stationary in a spot of interest, while trying to be aware of your surroundings, lest you realize too late and fail to make it to safety. (This also applies to heals, mends, and totems which you mentioned in another reply)
Meanwhile, as a slug, you have pretty compromised movement and rely on another player to bring you back up in the vast majority of cases. If a killer is watching your slug aggressively, that limits your options even more, especially for insta-down killers like Bubba. This isn't me saying that there aren't times where killers have to slug, but I would say that comparing being slugged to generator repair isn't a good argument.
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@OneNineTwoNine said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3892757#Comment_3892757
Ah okay, I misunderstood you. I thought you meant the stun timer for DS, and for OTR I guess I just brainfarted. I agree with you, then.
Yeah, I think DS' stun is fine, I wouldn't change the duration the killer is stopped for
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@Falcao said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3892710#Comment_3892710
flashlights and sabotage have nothing to do with slugging. if you got knockout in a build then you started the match not intending to use hooks. this is a ridiculous attempt to defend a toxic playstyle.
If I go into a match seeing a bunch of flashlights and toolboxes, I'm obviously not gonna be incentivized to go for hooks. I mentioned earlier that I agree that Knockout is unhealthy, I would agree slugging more than 2 survivors is kinda toxic. Slugging is the natural counterplay to sabo builds, because you deny their attempts to deny you your objective as killer.
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@OneNineTwoNine said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3892726#Comment_3892726
I don't really think DS or OTR needs any nerfs. They both immediately deactivate once you do a conspicuous action. There's the bodyblocking problem, yes, but if the killer ignores the survivor, they are either forced to do nothing for the entire duration of the timer or immediately disable one of their perk slots. The bodyblocking is countered by just immediately hitting them (OTR), and/or leaving them on the ground (DS). I think these perks are fine.
Brand new part is… eh. I'm not sure. If anything, you should not be able to use more than one BNP on a gen. The problem with gen regression/progression mechanics is that they are dependent on each other. If you nerf BNP, you will also have to nerf gen regression because both sides use these mechanics to counteract the other side. Survivors bring progression because of regression. Killers bring regression because of progression. Remove either one's toolset, and gens will either fly too fast or will be painfully slow. Maybe my opinion is controversial, but I don't think any perk or item should affect gen speeds. I think gen speeds are something that is so hard to balance right that introducing extra variables in the form of perks and items makes it near impossible to get it right.
I agree with STB though, that perk is in my honest opinion completely busted and can single handedly win games. I don't know what the devs were thinking on that one. It was probably meant to be yet another anti-tunnel perk but it's way too strong for what it does. I don't think any perk should let you transfer a hook stage. It might have to be reworked to be balanced.
I don't think the timers need a DRASTIC adjustment, I moreso think that 80 seconds for OtR is a little silly. I think 45 seconds for DS and 60 seconds (maybe 50) for OtR is good. Again, I don't wanna gut them, I more want to make them less effective for aggressive use, which is the outlier that I feel is problematic
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@OneNineTwoNine said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3892716#Comment_3892716
I can get behind that. Sabo is fun as survivor, but miserable as killer. I think it's yet another thing that's still in the game despite being severely outdated and just not a really good game mechanic. When the game was less competitive and more focused on the whole horror aspect, it made more sense.
But I don't think it's going to be easy to nerf SWF bully options without gutting a lot of fun mechanics in the game. The problem is the communication as you mentioned, which is why the gap between solo and SWF needs to be bridged. I think BHVR should be a bit bold and daring, testing out a communication feature that allows you to say where you are on the map, what you're going to do, what you need someone else to do, etc. And I don't mean voice chat, but set phrases. I also think you should be able to see your teammates loudout in game (not in lobby, as that promotes lobby dodging) so that you can plan accordingly.
Then, if that works out you can start buffing killers to compensate, as well as encouraging fun gameplay for both sides. That might help but it's hard to say for sure.
I feel like you can totally nerf SWF bully options without gutting fun mechanics. Off the top of my head, nerf Decisive and OtR's timers so they can't be used nearly as aggressively anymore, Brand New Parts could be nerfed as well, maybe cut Background Player's Haste a little more, and here's the most aggressive one I'd advocate for: Shoulder the Burden makes you exposed until you are put in the Dying state by the killer.
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@OneNineTwoNine said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3892692#Comment_3892692
I don't disagree with you, but I play solo survivor and in my experience the biggest problem with this behavior is that it's boring. OP asked why people complain, and there's the answer.
I don't play killer precisely because it feels stressful and difficult, so I totally understand why killers feel the need to do it. That doesn't mean it's any less boring, though. And that doesn't mean the complaints from survivors are invalid.
Not to mention, I feel like the complaints mostly stem from situations where it's absolutely not necessary at all and simply makes the gameplay experience worse, such as camping, slugging, tunneling at 5 gens against a team that is clearly not coordinated whatsoever. It happens a lot in my solo games.
There's a difference between the group of survivors complaining about camping/tunneling/slugging because they experience it in such situations, vs the group of SWF survivors who are essentially just entitled and upset that their strategy is being countered.
I'm surely not alone not minding camping or slugging if I am bringing a so-called "bully build" with my friends. It's totally fair if the killer counters that. But it's frustrating when I'm just trying to play the game normally and the 7th double-speed Blight in a row thinks that not getting a 4K is the end of the world.
Honestly though? Camping is not really an issue anymore, in my opinion (though it depends on the killer and if you're in the basement). I find slugging to be the worst, with tunneling a close second. I'm not even the one getting tunneled, most of the time. It's usually the baby survivor with 40 hours getting tunneled, making the match a 3v1 in a short amount of time which just signals to me that the match is pretty much over if the killer knows what they're doing.
It sounds to me like we're both pretty much in fundamental agreement as far as when slugging is acceptable and not. It all comes down to etiquette and people going into matches with an aggressive aura that players will need to match. I also understand a killer going in sweating against solo q players, especially those with less experience, is a much taller order to match that energy.
I feel like the answer comes with having better solo q communication options, while nerfing SWF bully options. If you want my personal opinion, I would gladly take heavy slugging nerfs in exchange for sabotage being removed from the game entirely -
@Brokenbones said:
Knockout's being changed because it promotes unhealthy playstyles that heavily punish solo q survivors
BHVR want killers to hook people, not leave them to bleed out for several minutes. This is also why the slug surrender mechanic is being added, so instead of a 4 man having to wait to die they can just give up and move on fast.
I agree Knockout promoted an unhealthy playstyle, I would personally like to see sabo builds get nerfed or even flatout removed as well. I feel like disabling a killer's possible only way to get a hook is also fundamentally unhealthy to the game. Survivors already have pallet and flashlight saves, they can bodyblock, there are perks like Breakout to make preventing hooks stronger anyway. If slugging is gonna get nerfed like this, killers need some alleviation so they can more consistently get pressure from hooks as well.
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UPDATE: I realize I have put this in the wrong sub-channel, but I can't seem to delete it. Apologies, I have made a crosspost here: https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/439810/suggestions-regarding-surrender-option/p1?new=1
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@beater15 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3892686#Comment_3892686
Even then these changes are overkill. According to nightlight Xeno is the only killer below 50% kill rate, currently at 48.87%. Not sure what the devs are smoking nerfing tail attack AND dissipation. I can see them making changes to the latter to force Xeno to use tunnels more often, but nerfing m2 in addition makes no sense.
Also most people will never experience playing Xeno against good survivors, it will be even more miserable now.
Thanks for the additional context. I guess my main point was to say that it's pretty damn silly for BHVR to nerf the killer, without addressing their biggest problem that players have been complaining about for a while now, and double down saying "it's a feature, not a bug" like WHAT
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@OneNineTwoNine said:
Because it's boring.
Killer main here. I agree slugging is boring, but I also feel like it's kind of a necessary evil sometimes, especially when dealing with SWFs. Plenty of people make entire team loadouts designed around denying hooks. Stuff like Decisive Strike, Background Player, Breakout, sabo builds, flashlights. There are a LOT of ways to deny killers hooks, and killers don't have nearly as many options to block the survivor equivalent of generators with the gen kick nerf (Granted, I'm not advocating for Chess Merchant meta either).
I feel like it depends pretty heavily on the context of the match. If the survivors are tryharding, there's nothing wrong with the killer tryharding as well. If it's obviously a match with a bunch of solo queue players and a killer bleeds all four out, yeah they're a dick.
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@beater15 said:
Dumbest change I've ever seen for Xeno, it's mostly baby survivors who think he needs a nerf. These same people don't know where to place turrets and tend to put Xeno high on tier lists. Won't be surprised if playrate goes below twin's. Not to mention its kill rate will go from worst in the game to even worse.
Oh well, sucks for Xeno mains lol.
If they fixed the chest bug, it'd at least be stomachable
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@sanees said:
they still needs the frank mixtape addon
Yeah, pretty much this. Legion needs a little extra utility, since he can't really end chases using his power if people split up. Making Legion get better map control through a base kit Frank's Mixtape seems like the one buff that would make this killer way better and have much nicer game feel without being oppressive or anymore annoying to survivors
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It depends a lot on the context of the game. Did someone I know you're in a party with just give up on hook? You're gonna be eating a slug for a bit at least. Did you lose two teammates on 5 gens? Understandable if you want the other person to get hatch. Are you a newer player that I notice I tend to beat very easily in chase? I'll let you live so I can give you hatch later, or even spend a little time trying to help you improve.
The golden rule of "treat people the way you wanna be treated" absolutely applies here. If you're a bully survivor, you're getting bullied back. I also tend to be way more ruthless if a map offering was used.