SkelXton
SkelXton
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If blight was an option, I would vote for blight. Even better are ones that know how to use their power at loops and can flick.
Billy is a good second but it is a shame he was nerfed so hard. He didn't deserve that much hate :(
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@Roar_Tenken said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2043888#Comment_2043888
But that's the thing. Console players can do it, so it's not as big of an issue. We don't have KB+M support, so we can't do JFlick, meaning that it needs to be removed, or we need KB+M support, as well as making it possible on a controller. If you've been playing for at least 20 hours, you know as well as I do that the devs aren't implementing KB+M on console, or allowing controllers to do the things a mouse can. It's too hard, especially for them, and even if they attempted it, we'd be better off if they hadn't
Sure, logically if only one party can do it then yeah it is unfair. But, rather than just delete a interesting unintended mechanic that increases the skill ceiling for both survivor and killer, add a feature to the game that allows players to use mouse and keyboard controls on console.
Boom! Problem solved! Everyone is happy.
It just sucks that they are so stubborn about some things, but stubborn does not mean that they won't do it. I mean, they added color blind mode out of the blue after someone said they would never add it. If they programmed their game in such a drastic way for console so that mouse and keyboard support was difficult to implement, that is their fault, and not the reason they should ignore a glaring issue.
They added crossplay. They. Have. No. Excuse. Anymore.
It's not too difficult to add mouse and keyboard support to a game which supports controller on the PC.
Additionally, J-Flicks are such a tiny thing. It is completely possible to play blight on console better than someone on PC, even if they can J-Flick, by playing with good bump logic. Flicks are not the end all be all of blight, but they certainty are not something to be discarded because of inaccessibility.
How do you expect a company to improve and reform if you buy into the stuff they say? " It's to hard "? " More Skins "! It's just lazy, and doesn't encourage improvement from a game you enjoy.
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@Roar_Tenken said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2043672#Comment_2043672
Actually, console players can do a ghetto version of scroll wheel hag by spamming L1/LB. It works the same way.
huh, still that has less of a counter than a blight turning around.
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@indieeden7 said:
It could probably be considered a tech if it wasn't something that only PC players could do.
See Q1 but I do hope someone finds a consistent way to pull these kind of flicks off on console.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2043672#Comment_2043672
I don't care if you can use M&K on console. DBD is not the type of game that should have that distinct of an advantage between controller and mouse. Rainbow 6 Siege already splits PC and Console because of the advantage it gives.
As DBD isn't primarily an FPS it has the opportunity to balance against M&K while keeping Controller players playing with them.
M&K is the bar that Controller support should strive to emulate through default settings and Killer balance.
It already does though. Aim is a large factor in a lot of the ranged killers. Regardless, this is a matter of opinion at this point, however seeing that the game is crossplay enabled, M&K should be de facto.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2043654#Comment_2043654
Mhmm. Keep in mind though that were it to be expanded upon it would need to be able to be performed by a controller with default sensitivity settings to a reasonable similarity to a mouse with maxed DPI.
As much fun as it is to expand upon a Killer's kit and abilities, hardware/software settings are not the method to do it.
Blight on controller was not optimized very well. All the developers would need to do is increase the maximum controller sensitivity limit in game. They could support it through natural means if they chose to do so. Or just add M&K support. Or both.
There are much more painful examples of mechanic abuse, such as instant teleport hit hag. Bind teleport to scroll wheel and instant smacks on whoever touched the trap before they can react.
Also, hardware is possible to use on console. There are M&K adapters, they just are not optimized for DBD.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2043628#Comment_2043628
I actually didn't consider the Fatigue cancel to be that significant of an exploit (which is why I said 3rd blink, not keeping the camera level). As killer you still needed to act upon that extra information with the base power, from the Survivors standpoint there isn't really that much of a difference.
JFlick is all about amplifying the base power of Blight. I find it far too difficult/inconsistent to perform for the amount of benefit that can be derived from it.
(Your example was in a controlled environment where the counter was showcased, no prediction was involved, and both participants knew about the Exploit).
I don't find increasing mouse DPI an issue. I find Blights ability not handling that error gracefully an issue. If they want to expand upon this exploit and make it an actual feature, sure. But its current state is in need of address.
Hey, if they find a way to implement J-Flicks that would be cool! I created this post because people have blown it out of proportion to other more glaring issues with the game.
Yes, that example was in a controlled environment, as it was to simply show the reality of counterplay. I have seen survivors do this in real games to strong blights, and it is possible. It is evident that one would need to know what something is in order to counter it.
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@JPLongstreet said:
Q1 answer won't happen. When asked about adding m&k support to the consoles, the answer given was "it's too much work". It has been about 5 years this game has been out, roughly 3 on console, and no such support. So no, this answer won't fly.
They have stated this previously. It is a shame, but they can (and have) changed their minds. Remember how they said they would never add color blind mode?
Additionally, they recently asked about this feature in one of their surveys recently, so it isn't completely out there.
Tbh, there really isn't a good excuse as to why they shouldn't add K&M support, so really... that excuse from the developers doesn't fly.
If they still don't add support, I would at least hope some adjustment could be made to somehow incorporate the J-Flick into Bligh's kit in an intentional way rather than patch it out completely. I would be fine with something like that.
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@[Deleted User] said:
I too, would love it if Nurse could animation cancel into a 3rd blink basekit.
Yes, it takes skill to bounce blight.
Yes, it takes skill to juke blight.
Yes, JFlick is about reducing the counter-play your opponent has available to them through niche hardware/software failures.
Yes, JFlick is an exploit.
I mean, by definition exploit is an unintended feature, so yes it is an exploit.
However, J-flicks are more harmless than the fatigue cancel bug for nurse, which I did consider to be an exploit which needed to be fixed as it was an unfair advantage. As to counter play, there is counter-play for J-flicks but often players are too lazy to try to learn a new thing and get upset when something changes the looping meta in this game.
As to hardware, mouse DPI is less harmless than a struggle macro imo. If you disagree, that is completely fine since it is your opinion.
Example of J-flick counter-play: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GN2OR0MhM3o
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@Rogue11 said:
If you want your exploit to become a feature, then how about we give blight's lunge the hitbox of a basic attack instead of a rectangle the same size as demo's. The "counterplay" of trying to dodge out like you might vs billy doesn't work when blight's hitbox covers almost 180 degrees. As you say this would just "increase the skill ceiling of play" right?
Or we could just fix him to the intended 90 degree cap that is already enough to counter almost any loop in the game.
I'm curious, why does having a higher dpi setting "increase skill ceiling" more than understanding the limitations of blights lunge and correctly anticipating where to bounce to get a hit? Or knowing where it's best to m1 instead of using his power?
One of these options requires game knowledge of tiles, and anticipation of what the survivor will do. The other requires changing a dpi setting and aiming well enough to hit an oversized survivor hitbox with an even more oversized lunge hitbox.
In other words, instead of correctly planning your bounces and anticipating the survivor, you can bounce, and if you guess wrong, probably get a hit anyway. This isn't "increased skill ceiling". It's being given a hit that you didn't deserve to land.
You bring up a lot of good points! Blight's hitbox is quite large, and does need some adjustment. However, there is a healthy balance between the two mediums. Too small, and survivors can run you like a bullfighter. There is definitely a need for adjustment in this department.
The J-flick, as you recognize, does not make up all of blight's strengths. That is true! Often the better play at loops is to patiently bump and predict where the survivor is going. If a blight is playing correctly, they will usually play patiently to wait out dh and only use a flick to style or on a last rush to turn a sharp corner. In the case of the later, it is surprisingly easy to counter more so than a spirit with stridor, or a nurse teleporting on top of you.
J-flicks do require map knowledge. Once you lunge you lose collision and can slide. At some loops, you can get stuck on debris at a loop and fail to connect a hit, or recognize when a survivor reaches a window and hit them when they vault.
It's an additional complexity which adds skillful interaction to the game, and to be frank is much more fair than a killer who blinks through just about anything (but even that has some counterplay, just like Jflicks)
It would be fine with me if they adjusted the game to support the J-Flick, even if they adjusted the hitbox. They did the same thing with the tractors on coldwind farm maps to leave the implementation of the tractor tech in a way which they felt was appropriate.
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@dspaceman20 said:
Do you have video evidence of this counterplay?
I know there is some out there. Let me record something and get back to you. But I've seen it done to AscensionWho
EDIT: Here is a link to an example I created with a friend. Remember, if a blight has rush tokens left, they will probably take the loop safe and not J-flick. On their last rush, it is likely for a blight to go for a J-flick at shack pallet or a safe window in order to reach you.
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@Mr_K said:
Billy flick back when?
It's a shame they killed that. Very interactive chase, with a high skill ceiling. I can respect a billy who destroys me at loops more than a nurse.
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@MadLordJack said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2043398#Comment_2043398
I did read, actually, I just don't think that brushing such huge problems aside is a reasonable way to address them. Because like it or not the counterplay to Blight's 180 is pure guesswork, which isn't actually counterplay and isn't even remotely consistent, and if you've ever plugged in a controller to play Blight then you'd know just how aful he is on console.
I agree! Balancing is a huge issue with this game, because... it's not balanced. It can't be when you have killers which vanish for a period of time and reappear to hit you (pure guesswork), and a killer who can teleport through walls. On the other hand, coordinated Survivors can gen rush any one of these killers if they are not careful.
Blight is rough on console because the developers didn't optimize him well for the platform. The new patch should address a few of the issues, but mechanically I'd say he is the most fun out of the top 3 to verse. You can see him, and pallets are actually useful (and his biggest counter). He is strong in chase, but not in a "oh, I guess I didn't guess correctly out of 5 options" sort of way. The J-Flick mind games is similar in depth to a moonwalk mindgame any M1 killer (including blight, spirit, or nurse) can accomplish. If you expect it, you can outplay it. The rewarding feeling of dodging a J-Flick is just as good as running behind a killer who is moonwalking past a wall.
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@Brokenbones said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2043465#Comment_2043465
While I completely understand your reasoning and I commend your ability to put your thoughts into words very well, I have to say I am not thrilled at the concept of having to mess with things like DPI/Macros and so on just so unlock a higher skill ceiling on a particular killer. I think of this as the same thing some people do with Spirit where they use really stupid things like Spacial sound (Which makes the game sound horrible) or presumably other ways of manipulating their sound for an advantage. (And this isn't explicity killers who do this, survivors have had a laundry list of similiar things like stretched res and so on)
I think it's unfair and quite an unhealthy thing to have.
It's not the same as say - rebinding the move left/move right command to Q/E for certain killers like Billy, Oni and even Blight because that's really simple and isn't intrusive.
Fair enough! The interesting thing about in game sensitivity is that the developer\s locked it in such a way that it almost makes no difference in game. I would just hope that the developers would leave the J-Flick alone, or even make it more accessible to those without a good mouse, and add keyboard and mouse support for console. At the end of the day, it comes down to a matter of opinion and whatever the developers decide to do with it.
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@Brokenbones said:
What do you think the difference between a 'tech' and an 'exploit' is? I'm genuinely curious because some of the so-called techs of the past were actually exploits
Like the going behind a hooked survivor 'tech' (exploit) which various youtubers popularised despite it being frustrating, completely unintended and an unfair advantage
Whereas things like the 'CJtech' are actually based on technicalities in the game. In this case, the technicality that a killer can't break a pallet that a survivor is currently vaulting thus not an exploit
Good question! I would be happy to answer!
I would state that a tech is a unintended feature which adds complexity, depth, a level of skill to a game. Now, I understand that some people wouldn't call J-Flicks a tech, but I disagree. The reasons that I stated in the post are a good foundation to my reasoning: Counterplay, Increased Skill Ceiling for players, and increased depth to character or play. The J-flick checks these boxes, while also staying outside the region of being completely busted.
The J-flick does have counterplay, and blight creates a unique and exhilarating chase. It takes a larger mental capacity than a M1 killer but is more fair to both sides than a nurse or spirit (spirits often have more tools to find you than you do to find them). Blight doesn't turn invisible, or teleport through walls.
I don't think that the use of tools outside of the game make something an 'exploit' inherently. There are many examples of exploits which don't require tools (such as crawling under hooks) which are much more game impacting than someone using a struggle macro by use of a turbo button on a third party controller.
It's possible that tech is not the exact word I'm looking for, but bugs have often been called features by developers, and that is what I am hoping will be the case with the J-Flick. We don't know everything about it yet, and it's possible that in the future people will figure out a way to do it more consistently on console (It's possible, but it requires the game to lag and is not consistently reproduceable)
Did that help?
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@MadLordJack said:
Blight's 180 removes his only counterplay and really doesn't take that much to learn, not if you're already decent at Blight. I am by no means some amazing Blight, but I picked it up in 10 minutes with nothing more than a video clip. And promptly never used it after that session because it's blatantly unfair and essentially turns Blight into Nurse But With Extra Steps. Seriously, I cannot stress this enough: it removes the only counterplay Blight has.
Also, it requires you to edit external settings/hardware and isn't available for console users.
First of all, I appreciate your thoughts! Based on your comment, you must have not read what I wrote very carefully because I addressed both of these points. [See #2 for counterplay, and Q1 for console users]
Also, you brought up a interesting point, comparing blight to nurse but with more steps. Does nurse have counterplay, and is her power intentional? If so, why would we be worried about a character who is obviously weaker and requires more work (Quote: "With extra steps")?
We should get our priorities straight then!
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If you want a fun build, AscensionWho on twitch often runs a fun build he calls "Scratched Mirror" Blight.
Addons: Vigo's Journal, Compound 21
Perks: Dark Devotion, Nemesis, Tinkerer, and Trail of Torment
The idea is to go to an indoor map (best would be midwitch) and use every opportunity to remove your terror radius and spook some survivors.
Whenever you rush, you will have no terror radius, and compound 21 will reveal survivors when you bump. This is a ton of fun to use!
Note: Remember that Dark Devotion and other perks do not trigger unless you m1 the survivor (Hex: Devour Hope is the same, so you can surprise survivors with 5 stacks and a mori if you just m2 😀).