Entchenklein
Entchenklein
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@TragicSolitude said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/Meet-Your-Maker/discussion/comment/3402252#Comment_3402252
I was thinking of something similar to this as well. Like, the Builder pays Synthite to activate the Alpha slot for a 24-hour period, and they can put one fully Prestiged Outpost in the Alpha slot and switch it up whenever they want (there could be a limit on how much time a single Outpost can be Alpha during a week/month/season if necessary). There's a special Alpha Outpost pool, just like there's a special Champion Outpost pool. Raiders and Builders still get materials and what not from the Outpost, that way it's not a waste of Synthite (because everyone's grinding and few are interested in Social "for fun" raids).
yeah something like that would be cool
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people who suggest outpost creators having to beat there own outpost havent given that idear a single thought
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maybe a alpha outpost would be awesome
Alpha Outpost:
-You can select one of your bases to be the Alpha Outpost
-Never depletes only needs to be reactivated once every 24 hours
-Every trap you use in your Alpha Outpost must get bought seperately aka you want 100 spike traps you have to buy 100 same for guards and Trap modifiers
-Potential aditional prestige levels for Alpha Outpost
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my main issue with coop is that it breaks some core game idears for example trapping at the genmat becomes useless as soon as you have a coop partner the coop partner just waits outside and you are good
Also infinite revives is a little too strong in my opinion maybe onle 2 revives per try would be good
I am ok that coop is easyer then solo but the difference is so insainly broken i barely feel challenged when playing with a partner
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My main issue with the arc barier is that its not just op in some circumstances but almost everything the builder can throw at a arc barrier user can just be countered by it ironically the best thing you can do againth arc barrier is actually building a killbox the thing the arc barrier was supposed to counter in the first place
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personally if killboxes were not a thing i would already be bored by the game there are not many ways how you can hide a trap and i really like whats going on right now as a builder i try to make my map impossible and as raider i look closely to weaknesses in the enemy base and try to beat it
the thing is if you want a challenge thats what hard is for if you dont want to be challenged just use easy or normal
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personally i feel like it should depend on the map for example when the map has 10 kills per raid attempt you die 9 times so you are better then average meaning you gain points you die 11 times you are worse then average aka you lose points
also maps that have a higher kill count per raid attempt should give more resources aswell so its worth it to spend 20 tries 30 tries in that map
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@mojohellcat said:
I think that there should be a max amount of traps within a certain range of each other. For ranged traps the distance should be significantly higher. Something they could attempt to try and see if it helps with them. It's pretty much the only thing I end up getting anymore. I'm so sick of these impossibly difficult maps I even built one myself to see how it does compared to my actually respectable build. And yes it's keeping the genmat safe but people will just rage quit after a few tries. While my actually respectable build gets 30+ kills and people don't rage quit and still get the genmat (everyone is happy in this scenario) . People will likely just start quitting these maps. But not before it becomes the only ones you can even find. And on top of that I'm barely getting any raids before my outpost runs dry they need to extend its life or people are gonna lose interest in spending the very few synthite they have on builds that aren't even recuperating losses
About the outposts dying to quickly i am suggesting the outpost just stays active till a certain amount of raiders steal your genmat this way you can be sure you are at least getting raided a set anount of times and have the oportunkty to make kills with your outpost
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personally i feel like the shield is way to strong anyways yes it counters killboxes kind of however it also makes other bases kinda trivial aswell oh no i get atack sound *plops shield* a few seconds later *plops shield again* ironically trap spam is still kinda the best option to deal with shield also minionspamm
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@CotePathos said:
This seems like a lot of dev work for something most players will ignore. A weekly challenge to build a base following these restrictions for a mild boost in payout or one of the eventual unlockables would be neat though
The raider side is just a bad idea in general. Restricting a raider's options will enable some degenerate bases.
For Raiders it would be a optional side task also the creator of the map has no saying in what modifiers affect the raiders
I am not sure if people will ignore a potential way to make there base earn more stuff especially modifiers that change how some traps work could lead to interesting new base layouts
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Since The game is out now i want to bring this post back to the top again
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but only as a option cause i personally hate view bobbing but if there are people who like it they should have the option to enable it for them
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hmmm +1 Armor would be interesting cause it would also make the Relentless modifier usefull again maybe
but personally i feel like even tho its kind of a useless perk it should still stay cause some people might still find it usefull and it can get usefull again when new modifiers are getting added
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The thing is the first outposts i made were pritty unique they had something special about them but once i realized the outpost only lives about a week or so asuming you even get to prestige them i just slapped a few killboxes together and turned on overdrive way more efficient then actually thinking about fun and challenging setups
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What i came up with:
Raider Ranking:
- Every Outpost Has there Own Ranking List Aka
- Outpost1:
- Player1 4 Death 10min Time +25
- Player2 5 Death 11min Time 0
- Player3 12 Death 20min Time -25
- Outpost1:
- Season Takes 1 Month after the Season Every Leaderboard of every outpost will be taken Players get +25 Elo when beeng on the top Half of a outpost Leaderboard and -25 Elo for beeng on the Bottom Half
- And then its just a lost of How much Elo Players Have
Pros:
- Hard to exploit since Every death just hurts your own ranking
- It doesnt Matter What outpost you play againth since every outpost has there own leaderboard so a good time in one outpostt might be 20min and in another 40min
Cons:
- Potentially Grindy since the more outposts you play the more points you could generate this could be fixed by randomly choosing lets say 100 random outposts that players who want to be ranked can beat ofer the course of a month
- Building is not Integrated in the Ranking However it might be best to seperate rankings for builders and raiders
- Every Outpost Has there Own Ranking List Aka
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Personally i feel like a ranking system would not suit this game also i can already see a few problems with this system:
- Raiding Time is strongly dependent on how big the map you are raiding is so you can eighter get very lucky or unlucky
- Same with Death if you just get a lot of easy maps in a row where you almost can not die your rank will go up quickly without you actually doing anything
- What stops you from just rushing easy maps and gaining a bunch of points
- You will have to make a system that can give points and remove points fairly since you are not playing directly againth another player will the person that made the outpost just lose rank points
- If you add in outposts in the ranking system and how much the outpost killed players you can just ask a friend to just die in your outpost a bunch of times (yes i know you would need to find it first and when there are a lot of players playing there will be likely something like 2000 outposts but you can make a python makro pritty easyly that just cycles through till it finds one of your friends outposts)
- Also i like to create at least some just funny outposts if i do that in a ranked system i will just get downranked just because i have fun
- Why is it always the top 100 players if just the top 100 players get something it will be harder to get in or easyer to get in depending on how many players are currently playing what about the top 1% get something this way its player base independent
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Its kinda frustrating if you have 10 days and then suddenly your base is useless to you
Especially since it will be only 1 day on the highest prestiege mode
As it is right now i basically copy paste my base once it runs out and i dont waste much time on base design a few tweaks here and there but not really finetune my base
I would realy love to do finetuning on my base but as it is now it is kinda wasted time
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@Hodderfodder said:
I voted "I like the concept", but I just think he should be able to climb up walls/over things. I understand the need to have an accessible genmat, but it doesn't need to be wheelchair accessible, y'know?
wall climbing Harvester would be nice but i think making a perk out of it would be more interesting so you have something aditionally to unlock but then you would need more perks for the harvester so you can choose and think about your decision
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Reorganized the suggestion a bit Included Raider Modifiers and Raider Streaks to potentially make raiding more interesting if people have more idears for modifiers to add would love to hear suggestions and what everyone thinks about the new idears
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The thing is what i realy want is having a game where i as a builder take on the challenge of preventing people from getting to my gen mat to me its realy fun designing traps to make it as hard as posible for people to get to my genmat its exciting to me to design the most difficult challenge possible I have a few limitations i set to myselfe mainly i dont want to waste a raiders time aka design a huge labyrint or just make the way unnecesarily long however i like to go all out and use everything i can to my advantage and thats why i personaly thing a restriction aka the harvester is good cause it prevents me from making completely impossible things i would love to have other restrictions like the harvester to fight againth aswell
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"Can you understand why having the requirement of a fully functioning path, with no surprise or variation, that makes EVERY MAP be completable just by following a predetermined path, is FAR more limiting than saying "go nuts, but make sure you can beat it yourself"???"
First of a functional path is limiting thats true however its more fun for the Atacking player to be able to have a clear goal aka follo the harvester and get to the gen mat also pritty much every rule you start implementing in a game means you are limiting something also the set harvester path doesnt realy limit you you can still just make a different path you can do that in your own map if people dont like to follow harvay they can just choose your way instead the make sure you can beat it a proach also means that you can only build something you can beat yourselfe meaning you are limited to your ability as a raider and not the ability of a builder
Also in Track Mania you are not gaining anything for creating maps same for mario maker and same for Bloon tower defense in meet your maker you gain something from killing people in your base also there are a few other games where you also have to create a base to defend it Clash of Clans for example or Battle Legion or Legion Lands or Guns Up 1 and 2 dont forget the billion Clash of Clan rip ofs all of thous games dont force you to beat your own base in order to make a change because that would be really anoying to do
yes you are correct there should be more different ways to defend your base and make it harder that bases fall into a meta thats why my suggestion insentivies different strategys for base defense
https://forums.bhvr.com/Meet-Your-Maker/discussion/365142/outpost-modifiers
The thing about this game is that your goal as builder is essentially to make the most amount of kills possible without the player quitting in frustration and people will optimize for exactly this if the harvester path is gone people get way way more tools for cheesing the system and so the harvester path kind of prevents a lot of cheesing
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No matter how you turn it rading your own base would only get anoying and will not fix much except people dont wanting to build bases anymore cause they have to run through them themselfes and yes you can technically fine the creator path but if you are skilles with building you know how to hide something like that and raiders will take ages to find it if there even is a creator path in the first place
Also the core idear of the game is still to make a outpost to protect your genmat not make fun levels
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@Redbeard_Steel said:
Harvester explodes when near the Raider and respawns at the Outpost Entrense +0% Income
Traps Activate when beeng destroyed +0% Income
Traps will explode when destroyed +10% Income
- Building Blocks Have 0 Building Cost but are limited to 1000 -10% Income
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So this first one removes the harvester as an assistant to the raider in maze maps, because 1x1 hallways are usually trapped so that (intentionally or not) they kill the harvester anyhow. Making it so that trying to stick near to the Harvester so you know where you're going will kill you is a bit much without any downside (as not getting bonus income really doesn't matter if you're getting extra kills via Harvester trap, then take into account the time raider spends trying to figure out the maze itself AND having to constantly watch for the Harvester coming up behind them, assuming they're on the right path, that's a lot of bonus for no negative).
Traps activating when getting destroyed, so you mean the trap still goes off even if it's broken? Like I destroy an impaler trap, but still get impaled anyhow? Raiders would either quit playing that map as soon as they found it out, or shields would become mandatory to play as a raider. Either way, it's another free buff to builds without any consequence as it's guaranteed to get more kills and would just force raiders into a certain playstyle, furthering the cheese raiders/map cycle.
Traps exploding when being destroyed is already a mod for a few (Impaler is only one I remember for sure), and generally the only time I saw it being used was on the second wave of maps that are extremely long corridors (sometimes with acid cube ceilings dropping guards from above) and every other inch of the hallway is trapped. Falls even further into the issue of "extra kills, no downside (especially if given extra income), and not only reduces trap costs by removing that mod as a necessity but gives a 3rd mod to all traps with no downside". Some people would use it in clever ways, but maps that are built that way would spike even harder.
Building blocks having a 0 cost/limit would be a great addition, although based on my own builds and ones I saw, 1,000 may is bit high as usually 6-7 hundred seemed like the general high end count among myself and people I know. (And giant room maps only need a few hundred blocks for the floor/walls/ceiling, so having more points for traps would just amplify the issue of these types of maps).
The others I think were fair however (especially the duo raiders bonus income, cause while one of them is likely to die more, with infinite respawns, if that person had gone in alone they would have died much more, so builders really lose out) and I loved the ideas, I think the ones I mentioned above just need a negative so that they wouldn't be abused as often.
As for optionally removing gear for bonus rewards to raiders, as long as it's not mandatory (as was pointed out, it would be easily cheesed if mandatory) this sounds awesome. It would effectively create a challenge mode for every map, and as long as the rewards are equivalent, while I might not be able to pull it off on each map, I'd be willing to try it on every map I go to for the rewards.
I Reworked the Harvester Modifier a bit with "The Harvester Path is visible to the Raider" this way people can still find there way through a maze
The traps Activating when destroyed was actually supposed to trigger on a delay not instantly since that would be way to broken also when a modifier is active the raider will know exactly what modifiers are in use so no surprises
About the Traps exploding it has the advantage that well all traps explode but when a trap explodes the traps that are near get destroyed aswell so you can not realy do dense trap coridors anymore since you will cause a chain reaction if you are not carefull it can be used to an advantage to of course
Building Blocks Have 0 Building Cost but are limited to 1000 -10% Income not realy sure what to do with this one effectively it just gives more room for traps
Choosing a modifier that doesnt give aditional income would already be kind of a downside since you could choose a different one that would give aditional income in exchange thous modifiers should make your base stronger and different but yeah some of thous modifiers could get out of hand some of thous modifiers will likely need tweaking
Maybe raiders should get aditional rewards when a modifier is active that actively makes the outpost harder for them to raid
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If you dont have a harvester path then people will start to use creator paths and the maps will likely get even worse
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Updated the Suggestion a bit and added Some more Modifiers If anyone has more idears for interesting outpost modifications i would love to here them
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Completing your own outpost will get anoying:
- I want to shift a trap somewhere else oh i have to play the entire outpost again
- I see in a replay a raider is doing something i havent expected and i want to fix it oh i gotta play my entire outpost again
- Oh my outpost gets a prestige levelup i want to add a few traps or put a upgrade in a trap oh no i have to play my outpost again
- Also It doesnt realy help that you have to complete your own outpost since you can just use holo cubes and make a creator path for your outpost
Another reason Having to play your own outpost is bad if you dont create a creator path for yourselfe it means you have to be a good raider to be a good outpost builder and that realy limits the fun of the outpost creators outpost building and raiding should be two different skill sets
Mighty Quest for epic loot had a system where you made a dungeon with some limitations you did not have to test your own dungeon that was great and then they changed it to a system where you had to complete your own dungeon it was really anoying and lead to creator path in the dungeon it was also a reason why the game started dying cause noone wanted to make a good dungeon anymore
If you want more variaty i would suggest a Modifier system
https://forums.bhvr.com/Meet-Your-Maker/discussion/365142/outpost-modifiers#latest
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you pay scrap to refill your genpool evectively converting scrap into genmat and levelups for the cimera yes you can do that likely indefinitely but remember you can only have 5 maps up at the same time
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To my knowledge you can already refill your outpost so if you dont reach the next prestiege level you can just pay some scrap to refill it and try again you dont even lose extra capacity or prestiege level you only have to pay scrap
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@chezpizza said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/Meet-Your-Maker/discussion/365142/outpost-modifiers
Not sure I would like the idea of being forced a negative effect when getting a burial ground. I feels like it would force builders to grind as raiders to continously reroll their maps until they find the one they want.
The idea you suggested, modifiers for map, is fine though, perhaps it should be an option the builder can add to thier base right. With the benefit, that these downside will give you extra prestige, or resources from each kill or something.
The Modifiers are Optional you can do them meaning you get more rewards or you can ignore them and you get regular rewards as usual rerolling is something i am not sure if it should even exist on the one hand it would be nice to have some controll over the modifiers you get on the other hand if you can pick and choose the modifiers you want its just extra Income for you at this point so maybe a system where when you prestige you can choose to reroll a modifier
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Potentially Negative Building modifiers
- Traps Trigger 10% Faster -10% Income
- Building Blocks Have 0 Building Cost but are limited to 1000 -10% Income
- Traps Trigger When getting Destroyed -20% Income
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The main issue i am trying to fix with thous "Traps" is that in a lot of my Outposts i end up having long empty hallways that do nothing besides having a few traps in them but beeng super boring to the raider i am aiming for killing players not bore them to death this way i can offer a faster way to complete a boring section of my Outpost so he can try the harder parts more often gifing me more kills in exchange win win
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"While i like the idea in general, the modifiers would have to be super carefully chosen and balanced, and (at least some of them) should come with a downside for raiders as well when fullfilled probably (which would make the whole thing really interesting imo)."
Yeah modifiers have to be balanced of course but thats something you could do with the income bonus of the modifier for example if the modifier "Only 3 Types of Traps Allowed +20% Income" gets too hard abused it can get nerfed to just give +5% Income instead for example
"With the stuff you suggested you make the outpost basically easier for raiders, so pass on potential kills, to get more income per kills. Only few would really bother with that stuff then, and stuff like "traps trigger 30% slower" would make speedrunning even easier (so should for example come with the downside "arc barrier not allowed" for raiders)."
Outposts essentially get easyer the question is how much easyer they get per modifier roughly the main question is +30% income gonna make up for the loss in total kills income per modifier probably needs ajustment based on how much its used
Downside for raiders could be interesting but in this case it would be forced for the raider personally as builder i would love to disable some things for the raiders but this opens up a lot of cheese potential maybe a similar modifier system for the raider where every time he starts a new raid random modifiers roll for him that he can choose to fulfill or not fulfill
Examples:
- Not using Trinkets (Grenades Respawn Pod and so on) +20% GenMat
- Not using (Insert Wearpon) +10% GenMat
- No Grapling Hook +100% GenMat
- Only use 1 Wearpon +50% GenMat
- Traps Trigger When getting Destroyed +20% GenMat
Unfortunately not as many idears for the raider modifiers and also a lot of the raider modifiers would fulfill automatically
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Not Really Traps more like funktioning blocks that help the map creator to let raiders skip long boring routs
- Teleporter: Instantly teleports The Raider to the Linked teleporter Teleporters are color coded aka first teleporter pair is Red next Yellow and so on the harvester does not take the teleporter so there still has to be a different way asides the teleporter
- Speed Pad: Increases the raiders Speed for a short time when running over it