DxDen1004
DxDen1004
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- DxDen1004
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I never play killer, after a long day the last thing I want is to get irritated.
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@UndeddJester said:
I disagree, it isn't a failure at all, from a game design perspective it is doing exactly what it is intended to do, and I think it achieves that admirally… and your issue lies in the fact you're only thinking about what the AFC gives you personally, and not thinking about the AFC gives you in terms of all of the survivors as a team, which is a complete counter to camping strategies when used correctly.
You can see this in how different types of players react wildly different to the same feature:
- For more casually minded players, they argue it doesn't really do anything.
- For more competitive minded players, they argue it does way too much to restrict the killer and is a broken feature that should be removed.
So why is there this disparity?
For most survivor casual players, they are primarily focused on a micro scale, i.e. their direct interactions with the killer. Their gameplay goals centres directly on their chases on a 1 to 1 level, and camping gives them a directly negative chance of surviving the game, with no new killer interactions, and thus an overall bad experience.
Survivors with a more competitive minded mindset however are looking at it on a more macro scale, i.e. how this interaction affects the killer's pressure in trial on the survivor team as a whole. A killer who is camping out a survivor on hook has no pressure on the actual trial and gens, and thus the survivors as a group sitting 3 people on gens gain an enormous amount of uncontested progress and very are likely in a winning scenario.
The teams overall chances of survive massively benefits a killer camping a survivor on hook if the survivors use the time the killer gives them.
Well this game isn't comp… you shouldn't be comparing it to comp…
What this means in a nutshell is the reasons you guys believe the Anti Face Camp system sucks, is because it simply doesn't prevent camping (by design)…. and you don't want to be camped. Camping directly negatively affects your individual chance to win, thus semantically there is no real significant difference really for you between being face camped or proxy camped… however that is not the AFC's purpose.
To successfully camp out a survivor, the killer must maintain a distance from the hook, which means when combined with the removal of the hook grab, it is almost impossible to make a scenario where a survivor cannot trade. When survivors are playing the macro game, focusing gens and using the fact this killer isn't pressuring them to camp, the survivors as a team are gaining a massive advantage, getting gens done entirely for free over the 70-140s the camped survivor is on hook… the killer is putting themselves at a massive disadvantage IF the survivors take full advantage of it.
If the survivors as a team work on gens unimpeded, and only move towards hook when the timer is getting close, then due to the distance the killer must remain in range of the hook, they have ample time to make the trade on their terms. If they have further anti camp/tunnel defences (OTR, DS, Blood Rush, Reassurance, Camaradarie, Shoulder the Burden, etc.), they can put the killer even further behind, to the point they are likely looking at a 1k maximum, or 0k due to the killers extreme lack of pressure for such an extended period of time.
Your issue is most SoloQ players don't understand these principles, and do not make use of hook timers anywhere near as much as they should…. but you absolutely can employ these principles in soloQ to great effect, and if you play with these principles in mind, and have a team of SoloQ survivors who understands this principle as well, you will be surprised how much more difficult life is for even strong killer players, even as a SoloQ player.
Why I believe the AFC is great
So to my mind the AFC is a great feature. If you exploit all the mechanisms the game gives you (notably hook timers), you gain a huge appreciation for this feature… tactically thinking about what benefits the killer the most at any given time, and then denying it makes the AFC a very strong feature to play around.
However the double edged sword is you also gain massive contempt for survivors when the entire team comes off gens to get you off hook while you're being camped… if no one is on gens, there is no benefit to the team for you being camped, and even worse, no one is creating a scenario where the killer has to choose between camping or leaving…. and that is extremely frustrating to watch with your yellow auras.
In short, the AFC is a much bigger part of the tactile macro gameplay of DBD, not the direct 1to1 micro gameplay… and as a more tactical player (with meh mechanics), this feature gives me a method to shine in a game where my shoddy mechanical skills let me down ^^
I appreciate all of you guys sharing your opinions in such a constructive way.
Coming to your considerations, I must say that defining the AFC system "admirable" from a game design perspective is quite an overstatement, as we can clearly see. For instance, as someone already stated, the system seems to be based on the killer's terror radius: I had a Ghostface camping hidden behind a box just inches away from the hook, and the progression bar wasn't moving at all, so no, I do not believe it is a good game design choice at all, and if I were in the development team I would have definitely tackled the problem in a different way especially considering there are killers that do not need to remain close by, like the huntress, to effectively camp and prevent unhooks.
Just some technical aspects: in Unreal Engine (like most of the game engines out there) there is a functionality known as "traces" or "ray cast". You basically get the forward vector of an actor and send a ray for a certain length, and when it hits something you get a pawn or actor as result. This can be then cast to the player controller, in order to determine if the killer is directly looking at a survivor. THAT should be the way to do it, if you want to implement an effective AFC system, which also considers other scenarios: imagine the killer is in another room and he has no immediate, direct access to your hook (for example like it happens in RPD or Lery's). In that scenario, we can safely say he is not camping, but since the walls are quite thin the AFC progress bar fills anyway and you get a free unhook. That doesn't make much sense. It appears quite clear that an hybrid system, which relies on both proximity and traces, is necessary in order to avoid unfun camping as we saw in my video.
So, no, the current AFC mechanic is completely senseless and I don't understand how could a developer team come up with that in the first place. Oh wait, perhaps I do: it's just the most basic, cheap and easy way to implement such a system, but like everything "easy and cheap", it doesn't really work out in the long run.
I therefore stand with what I said in my first post: remove it altogether (or implement it properly). -
I always thought something like:
"HA, got you, stinky toxic survivor, now I'll hook you and watch you die"two seconds later:
"Oh wait, he's the last one! MEMENTO MORI" -
After the recent update, apart from the indecent servers, the game also started to stutter, on my very high end PC. One step forward, four steps backwards
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I agree, the game is almost unplayable most of the times. This, along with many other reasons, is why I left a very very poor review on Steam.
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I agree, we definitely need to see the killer's ping in lobby. I ended up in countless game where the killer's ping was so high that it was completely unplayable, and everyone just killed themselves on the hook straight away. I don't think that's fun.
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Another example of the pallets not working
https://imgur.com/fwmscza -
Could be a ping problem indeed, even if my internet works perfectly and I have 55ms ping in the lobby, it doesn't matter. If the killer has a bad internet he will WiFi hit you anyway..
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@senki527 said:
what i noticed is, that almost only killer mains are lurking around in this forum. calling for survivor nerfs all the time. they dont need nerfs! i see plenty of killers getting 4k, cause they have skill. just adapt and l2p.
and don't write comments starting with "i'm a survivor main...." cause i know you are not a survivor main.
I am a survivor main..and I am really honest xD I haven't played killer for so long that I am rank 20, I didn't even know it was possible to derank under rank 15. Anyway, I understand your feeling, but I must say that actually survivors have a great advantage over the killer: when I play with my team, the killer has absolutely no chance, that's because we can coordinate and get gens done so fast that by the time he downs and hooks the first survivor we made at least 2 gens and a half. So no matter how good he is, the only thing he can do is to camp and kill one, or try to slug us all (which never works ahahahaha). The times we lose is because we do mistakes, like get stuck into stuff, or because dead hard doesn't work, or because of 5GHz Wi-Fi hits through windows and pallets (but that's because of the servers, not related to players' skill).
So, if I wanted the game to be more challenging, what would I ask to the devs? To slow down generator repair speed a little bit (not too much or it would become unbalanced the other way around) and remove purple, green toolboxes and brand new part, shortly, all the stuff that can give too much of a speed up to gens. Then FIX DEAD HARD, FIX DEAD HARD, FIX DEAD HARD, and then nothing else :P
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Today I played killer after a very very long time, after almost ragequitting as survivor because of dead hard. You said you feel a lot of negativity, and that's what I feel sometimes when I play DbD, maybe it's the game itself that makes us all angry and frustrated?
Anyway, playing killer was so fun, I tunneled and made "yes yes" with the head, and all the toxicity I had accumulated playing survivor suddenly disappeared, probably "discharged" on the survivors I killed. I had fun. But judging from the endgame chat they did not so much, and I know the feeling, and I felt kinda sorry
My Uni(versity :P) is closed because of fear of the virus, so I can stop studying a bit and have fun, I rediscovered Battlefield 4 and Rainbow Six, I didn't remember they were so fun to play!
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I really appreciate all your comments, I am happy to hear your opinions, and I must say you all are very polite, on the contrary of the Steam Community Hub users.
Anyway, I understand that the issue is with the dedicated servers, and for this reason the perk might be difficult to fix. Therefore, in my opinion, it should be either reworked or substituted with another perk since it is in fact a wasted slot. What annoys me the most is that the description of the perk clearly states that when used it allows to avoid damage, but in fact that's not what happens.
To clarify, I am not talking about doing it too late so that you only see the exhaustion icon (that's clearly player's fault because he did it too late) but the problem is when the animation actually starts (you can see it if you slow the video down with the feature available on YT), the perk activates, you get exhausted and nevertheless you take damage anyway.
From a technical point of view (just speculation now) I think the animation starts and the player's hitbox is removed, and then added back when the animation finishes. If this clearly doesn't work because of lag, the perk could be adapted and changed, for example you could first press the E key to activate a temporary invulnerability that lasts one or two seconds, and then within that time press space to perform the actual dash. This could allow the player to either use the invulnerability without the dash (giving the killer no clue about when dead hard will be performed and no chance to interrupt it, as it should be and as it was before the dedicated servers) or with the dash, so that the player can make it to a pallet or window. In both cases exhaustion should be applied.
This way, from the moment the E key is pressed, the server knows that the player must be invulnerable for the next one second, but the killer can't know until the animation starts, so the animation can be performed without the risk of it being interrupted. This idea might be stupid, and difficult to use since it would require two keys, but I feel I would use and appreciate dead hard more if it was something like this.
Since we are talking about fixing it, what do you guys think? How would you modify it in order to make it more usable and more reliable? Could removing the perk and creating another one be a solution or it's better to keep it as it is, knowing that it may not work?
Can't wait to hear your opinions!
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I agree with you. Funny thing is that on steam community hub (where I posted this same discussion) there are people saying that we are timing it wrong, we should use it just to gain some meters, and similar moronic things. The perk's description says "dash forward quickly to avoid damage". since this is not true and does not work properly, NO MATTER THE REASON, just fix it or get rid of it.
Anyway, we are just wasting our time since devs just care about new cosmetics to earn every single dime they can instead of actually taking care of tremendously broken game mechanics.
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I recently thought about this, since it would be great for new players to explore the maps and learn them, as I am trying to do with the new Underground complex. Unfortunately It's not possible, I think it might be possible to use a software to rip the maps and models out of DirectX and explore them in a 3d editing program, not easy nor practical anyway.
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Dear Peanits,
I'm happy to know that you're working on fixing those problems, expecially when people disconnect and I need to wait so long for nothing, since the trial is already lost. As I write, the game is in background, loading, and it will probably never make it.
Anyway, I suppose that cancelling games that starts with less than 5 players will be quite difficult, since one can disconnect at every stage of the loading process and this means that we will probably have to wait anyway, only that in the end, instead of playing, we will just get thrown out to the score screen. I think I would find that even more frustrating.
I am quite curious, can you disclose some technical information? Will the game check at the end of the loading process, or check every tick if all the players are still connected or not? If this is the case, I can't see how it will prevent the waiting, because that's the real problem, not playing with 2 teammates instead than 3.
I thank you for your reply, have a lovely evening.
Den