Doragodx
Doragodx
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@Fibijean said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1269731#Comment_1269731
That's because this thread is about NOED. Survivor perks are another discussion entirely.
It's a comparison, like the many other comments in this thread have done.
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@Fibijean said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1268264#Comment_1268264
NOED doesn't do anything to slow down the game. Survivors thinking that the killer has NOED might slow the game down because they'll be spending time cleansing totems, but they can't know whether NOED is or is not in play until the endgame, so whether or not the killer actually has it equipped is irrelevant in that sense. It works as part of an endgame build, and that's fine, but that's one build, it's not anywhere near the only option. And it works as a safety net, and that's also fine - safety nets are designed to compensate when things go wrong. But relying on the safety net to catch you every single time probably means you're not a very good tightrope walker.
As for many killers needing old Ruin, again, I think that's largely a matter of perception. Obviously I can't speak to everyone's experience, but the fact that kill rates haven't completely plummeted since the rework would suggest that perhaps Ruin was not quite as crucial to success as many believed.
Along with the analogy, killers safety net being noed, survivors safety net being DS/DeadHard/Adrenaline? This is a two way street with no road rules applying to survivors.
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Killer needs to have (at least) 12 chases to close out the game with a 4k. Then within those 12 chases, the killer needs to win. Any chase the killer doesn't win and is forced to leave a survivor to do so, means now the amount of chases required go to 13, and so on. If a killer chases for like 80 seconds, that's 50% of the game is over.
At least with noed, there's plenty of counter play. You can pre-cleanse the totems or just go look for it once it's active because most killers can't risk to leave the hook in the possibility they lose their only or second kill (which would change a loss into a draw). On top of what I stated above, for 5 gens, you're playing into a killer who only has a max potential of 3 perks at their disposal. And this isn't even the end of variables inside games, some games you're going to have disgusting map tiles, but that's a whole nothing discussion.
There's no counterplay to a survivor using DH and removing an entire mistake which makes chases go on for another 20 seconds, or makes a chase unending until late game.
There's no counter play to DS and being soley reliant on the survivor to miss it. I've had plenty of games where all 4 survivors make mistakes and don't execute mechanics correctly and the only injured person (previously off hook) is downed near the gate only to get DSed and turn your only kill into a complete 4man win.
Noed honestly isn't an issue even for a 4man pug.
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You can depip if you stay for the entire game and the 3 other survivors DC.
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@Mandy said:
I think blacklisting a character is a terrible idea personally and one which will lead to much slower lobbies and games.
The fact that you don't know what killer you are playing against is part of the fun of DBD and if it's a killer that you don't particularly enjoy playing against (we all have them, its Hag for me), I just try my best to do well and help my team and try to learn HOW to counter that particular killer.
Everyone has purchased the right to play the game and nobody should be punished because of the character they have chosen to play as.
Agreed. It's why I don't wish to be punished to play against an unfair killer. My chosen ultimatum would be blacklist or re-design.
@Marcavecunc said:
No. Main reason being you join lobbies before confirming which character to play as. 4 different survivors have 4 different killers blacklisted.. Then the killer gets a message saying "no you can't play that one, survivors don't want you to.. Or that one and that one too.. But feel free to play that underpowered killer, no one minds"
Yeah no. Playing against different killers is part of the game. Learn to play against them and deal with it.
I'm not saying somebody should be stopped from playing that. That's not what a Blacklisting is. I don't want to play against Spirit so don't queue me into one. Would invovle making killers pre-determined before lobby.
@Williamz said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1041872#Comment_1041872
I don't think you still understanding what I'm saying. When she physically isn't moving she is 100% making some sort of play and you can make a choice on that. The only time Spirit is in excellent favour is when you run to a tiny loop. I'm aware of who "ScottJ" is and yes I agree with him on some things but not a lot on Spirit. He has said stuff like "you can't tell if she's phasing with the school outfit.." When I have recorded footage on my hard drive right now of a spirit standing across from me at a pallet going into phase and me simply vaulting across while she's wearing said "outfit."
Spirit will eventually catch you but it's about prolonging the chase. Yes she is in favour of her chases but if she wasn't she'd be a pretty bad killer. She isn't OP. You gotta remember she has to hit you twice as well. Stridor does make it easier if you don't have IW but a good survivor with IW and Spirit without Stridor can struggle and gens go very fast in this meta.
I already addressed this. I believe you're just cherry-picking what I've said in contradiction. Regardless of what play she's making, the survivor is forced to make a coinflip.
Any power indication shouldn't be restricted to a cosmetic. You can clearly and intentionally see every other killer use their power and have a chance to use reaction MS. Spirit is literally the only killer that you can't.
You can stand and literally encourage a survivor to lose a 50/50 coin flip without even having your hands on the keyboard. That's not at all engaging game-play even for the killer. That's not fun and if you believe it to be subjectively so then I'd honestly believe any one would be lying to themselves.
All killers will eventually catch you, that's the point and the intent of the game and it's design. I did say in my OP I believe survivors and most map tiles to be stronger than most killers.
Nurse is in favor of her chases because she completely ignores terrain, loops and vaults. You actually need your hands on the keyboard and mouse to 100% ignore said game designs. A better example would be I can actually dead-hard a Nurse. You can't reliably dead hard or use a 99ed SBurst because, again, you can't use MS reaction to reward. yourself.
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@kaoraku said:
Blacklisting a killer with it's power, and also perks... Aha, sounds valid. Maybe there should be a text area, where every survivor should make a list what the killer will have to do, and if he failed, he get banned for 3 days...
So no. It is not a different conversation. If you can say that you want to banish a killer entirely because it is not fun (and of course the 3 other survivors should do that too), then the killer, who already have less fun because the genrush amd such things ends in a game, where 4 killers could be banned for him. Even if we would say this is a good idea, then we should have to give something for that side too, to counter it.
Perks are teachables.
There's nothing unique about survivors except cosmetics.
I don't have a problem with any killer perk, even noed. Again though, not part of the conversation nor anything to do with the point.
It's literally 1 right click with no counter play and the only thing you can do against it is lose less on a total coin flip. Maybe if spirit actually had an animation whilst using her power, that would be a step in the right direction. Why can't survivors see her hands move to activate her power too, rather than just guess if she is or is not?
There's nothing equal to remove for survivors.
Perks are a completely different argument. Stop bringing it up, it's irrelevant to the my original QQ post.
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@kaoraku said:
Ehm why should be a blacklist? And if so, the why only for survivors? Why killer's can't blacklist perks?
The game works that way. People payed for their chars, they want to play it. And I hope once the disconnect penalty will be a real thing.
Yes, because playing a 50/50 chance where (in most scenarios) Survivors end up losing or losing ground is really skillbased game play where the players need to engage..?
Bringing up blacklist perks really does seem like a grasp at straws for an argument. Why couldn't survivors blacklist perks? That's just a totally different conversation. Additionally you need Iron Will to even be able compete 50/50s vs Spirit only to lose less than more in the outcome of a 50/50.
I personally don't find it fun nor fair to play against Spirit. I paid for this game and DLCs too doesn't mean my fun should be disregarded either.
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@Williamz said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/124964/blacklist-killers-for-queues
You play against Spirit in a similar way to Nurse. You predict, make a decision, guess if you would like on if she will account for you doubling back when she blinks or not. Thus, the same result when you make a prediction on where the spirit is.
When a player says spirit provides "no feedback" what they really mean is they struggle with the fact they literally can't see her making her play when the reality is, you can. When she stands still. Yes she might be stood there, she might not be, either way she is making a play so now you evaluate what's around you and now you make a play. I would use jungle gyms and other high wall areas to give you better odds of making a good play, the same strat you would do against a nurse.
With the Nurse you can actually see which way she faces when casting, you can also react to her blink, therefore reaction MS is rewarded. You can't do this with spirit. Even ScottJ outlined this. There's a big difference in being able to see Nurse and not being able to see Spirit.
@Williamz said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/124964/blacklist-killers-for-queues
You play against Spirit in a similar way to Nurse. You predict, make a decision, guess if you would like on if she will account for you doubling back when she blinks or not. Thus, the same result when you make a prediction on where the spirit is.
When a player says spirit provides "no feedback" what they really mean is they struggle with the fact they literally can't see her making her play when the reality is, you can. When she stands still. Yes she might be stood there, she might not be, either way she is making a play so now you evaluate what's around you and now you make a play. I would use jungle gyms and other high wall areas to give you better odds of making a good play, the same strat you would do against a nurse.
I mean with Nurse you can punish them for overblinking. Spirit just runs into you and M1s you just by choosing the right path by RNG.
Again MS reaction rewards the winner. Winning or losing the RNG into spirit generally favors the Spirit even if it's as something as little as forcing a pallet.