C3Tooth
C3Tooth
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@MrPenguin said:
The only thing I disagree with is genrushing in this definition.
There's more objectives than just unhooking survivors, you have totems, you have chest, you have healing, you can help your teammates in chase ect. Yes they are optional but they are still there.
If a player(s) is just focused on getting the gens done as efficiently as possible throughout the entire match, with or without builds, they are genrushing. Splitting on gens as soon as the match starts, running straight from gen gen to gen, not helping teammates in chase, ect.
It's not inherently bad, just as tunneling isn't, both sides are just trying their best to win. Which if that's what they want to do then in all fairness that is the point of the game, to win. If its the most efficient way then it is what it is.
Unhooking, not to camper.
Totems, why should I do a dull if it give me no benefit? Unless its a Hex or I have Inner strength.
Chest is pointless since how weak items are. I dont spend 10sec to open a chest, 24sec to self heal. While I can get a 16sec heal from teammate. Same as 10sec to open a chest, to save 5sec on Gen.
Healing? How can I heal my teammate when they're tunneled?
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I like it.
I once suggest survivors can spend time to open lockers against Huntress to "break" hatchet, which if she interact with that locker, she would get 1 less hatchet. Either she spend time to get that 1 more hatchet, or continue the hunt with 1 less hatchet, then survivors have to interact with the locker again.
Its only up if the time survivors spend to disable power is balance against the time killer lost.
As @Nazzzak said, survivor's extra objective should be benefit on their survival, which is weaken killer to extend the chase, not free extra Gen time.
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@biggybiggybiggens said:
Better idea. Let us have an option to toggle Faster matchmaking that puts us with any skill level or Slower matchmaking that finds a much more balanced match with people of similar skill.
Nothing would go wrong for the most skilled players to use the option to matched against average skill...
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3512642#Comment_3512642
15 seconds is a LONG time. She needs to teleport 10 full times before you are able to be condemned. That is a full 150 seconds. And she can't teleport for the first 30 seconds. You can't just spam teleport and expect to get someone without all the gens getting done. Personally when i go against her, i don't think i have lost a game yet in solo queue, except for maybe the first day when everyone was figuring out what to do.
She's pretty easy to counter once you understand what to do. You need to remember that at the end of the day, she literally has 0 chasing power. Her power does nothing in a chase. All she has is tons of mobility and map pressure. Once you realize that, you just need to manage your stacks and pay attention when she is busy.
The ONLY thing i'll agree with, is the that the green addon that tells her when you take a tape is a bit annoying in solo queue. Not unbeatable, but annoying for sure.
It isnt about 10 full times teleport to get condemn, you only need half of it to force survivors to find TVs, and even that, it doesnt have enough TV for them, because they need 4 TVs, while you already use 5, out of 7
I could run to TV(1) to get the tape, Sadako teleport to it, fine, I could hide from her then run to TV(2). Except she would teleport to TV(2). And repeat. The thing is the way Survivors gain stack and losing stack share the same resources.
Just image everytime Wesker successes M2 a survivor would also disable a Spray, or Survivor pre-open a Spray that disable Wesker to M2.
If the tape has its own cooldown from the TVs, which Sadako can teleport however she wants, while survivors still can take the tape right after she teleport (and also not disable TVs for Sadako), I would like to see how that go.
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@Evan_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3512717#Comment_3512717
Apparently you are not satisfied with my answer (overperforming or hoping the other players underperform), so you might as well present yours.
You try harder to get more kill. Use strong addon, perks, tunneling .ect
Survivors try harder to get less killed. Stack items, strong addon, perks .ect
In a match that if both sides have equal skill. Who tries harder win the match.
Back to beginning.Because that would stupid for “competent teams” that struggle to get 2e while killers can chill play for 12 hooks and still get 4k. You should try hard, tunneling to earn 4k
I dont like being tunneled as survivor, but tunneling is fair.
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@Evan_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3512684#Comment_3512684
The 2/3k is of course an expectable average. In any single match players make make mistakes or outperform themselves, therefore all results are possible.
We dont know who make more mistakes, I dont mention about it.Assume both you and survivors have equal skill and both make the right play.
I just ask what you should do to get 4k (instead of 60%) in that match?
The answer is pretty close now!
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@Evan_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3512662#Comment_3512662
60% kill rate means 2 or 3 kills are expectable (2k more often, I'm lazy to calculate the exact chance).
What should the Clown do to get 4K that one match?
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Addons should be stronger, not basekit.
There is a different between 2 better addons and 3 addon slots. Though some addons are too weak that 2 weak addons should be merged into one.
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@Evan_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3512656#Comment_3512656
60% kill-rate of course. We know that.
Got any closer to finding that footage of the master-Clown 12 hooking a decent team?
Im not asking the kill rate. Im asking the result of that match. 0-1-2-3 or 4k
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@Evan_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3512647#Comment_3512647
Based on how matchmaking defines skill, or do you have a personal definition we should be familiar with?
Because by the Mmmrntity's standard, a tunneling Clown is more skilled than one who plays by The Survivor Rulebook, and he should have a 60% kill-rate against an equally skilled team.
No no, I only ask in a match that a Clown and survivor team that both have equal skill, what the result should be?
Of course there are many factors that decide the match, but what it should be? 0-1-2-3-4k?
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@Evan_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3512609#Comment_3512609
I guess you could link me footage of a professional Clown 12-hooking a team who doesn't make basic mistakes, right?
Can I ask if Clown and survivors have equal skill, what's the result should be?
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I knew the moment I read that she can teleport once per 15sec that gain stack map wide would be spam-able. The teleport is tough to balance though, since she has the most thing in her kit: stealth, teleport, slowdown, mori.
Mori should be only the reason why survivor should interact with her slowdown. Not her goal to build up. My idea is to nerf teleport and buff the slowdown.
- She can only teleport once per min. All survivors gain 1 stacks.
- Holding a tape should passive gaining stack, so survivors only get the tape when need to lose stacks, not to control TV.
The match would go like this:
3min: 2 survivors should go for the tape, since all of them have 3 stacks. If all of them wait for 5-6 stacks before going for the tape, there would not enough TVs for them.
5min: TVs are reset and other 2 survivors have 5 stacks now, they should go for the tape.
Then the slowdown will be repeated like that. Consistent.
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@Evan_ said:
So we regard it a straight fact that Clown needs to tunnel / camp against competent survivors to win?
Good.
Average killers need tunnel/camp against competent teams to win, yes, as it should be.
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@MB666 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3511780#Comment_3511780
yep , as someone who plays m1 killers a lot I gotta say hits were sooooo easy to cheese if you were actually looking for them.
my average ping is 60 - 90 ms Tho , but damm totally hitting the air and somehow that connectiong while the survivor is 99.99% on the animation , best example of this.
Trapper doing a last second baby lunge and still lands the hit due to latency - skill issue from the jake i guess
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/WVY0N1A83P5Y/window-hit.gif
people say hey , "I should get the hit just because it barely connect" and thats a terrible argument if we are taking latency in mind where on reality the 0.5 sec animation where the survivor can still be hit , is even more due to latency adding a extra 0.2 or more seconds of delay where the killer can still hit you , (and as you can see as survivor looks totally BS because the killer has priority)
so people got used to how janky the hits where as killer and when they got fixed , they are now having trouble timing their lunges.
like myself am currently missing some of my lunges by really barely but it feels responsive am not getting those 1 pixel hits that where like "he surely make that vault *swings anyway * *BS HIT connects* WOOOOW , how did i hit you , okay , ill take it" Killer POV
I would like to see how the hit look on both side.
The old vault feel so bad as survivor, already 2m ahead and still hit, or even drop vault that already 2m below from the upper floor.
But the new vault feel alot worse as killer, Im right behind them and the swings dont hit after vault. Its like survivor vacuum 2m away the moment they reach the vault.
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Example you play 1 match as survivor and 1 match as killer. Mean you play with/against 7 survivor and only 1 killer. Even if each match has 1 survivor and 1 killer are toxic. You will see 2 toxic survivors and 1 toxic killer.
Which is why killers think survivors are toxic, while killers are not. Especially you are the killer, where you dont play against any killer, and usually people dont reflect themselves if they're toxic or not.
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@DredgeyEdgey said:
Looks like a lighting issue
Its all about lighting. I remember the fresh reworked Lery was misty, dark, the light from windows was really pop up. Now its bright every where.
I dont think its issue, its their choice to make it that way.
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@Mandy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3511169#Comment_3511169
I guess the solution would be locking lobbies and not allowing players to dodge them.
THAT SHOULD BE A THING. Im no way a high skilled killer, but I never dodge lobby and take these matches like a champ.
Unlike most killers who claim skilled enough to be high MMR that shopping for weak teams.
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@WilliamSN said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3511168#Comment_3511168
Its extremely disingenous to claim "killers can just moonwalk" while ignoring that loops aren't just straight walls.
Loops are more like this :
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/1EMVPPRG7T5T/screenshot-2023-08-10-133906.png
Its also weird to forget that the original developer intention for DBD wasn't for the game to be a 3 rings around the rosey into pallet drop which resulted in massive map design oversights.
Its weird to forget that the bloodlust and window block mechanic exists because the developers acknowledged that certain tiles were inherently too strong and resulted in infinites when the survivor knew how to exploit them.
But yes, keep on claiming killers can just "Moonwalk" their way trough a tile.
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Props where it is to BHVR, the 2 most recent maps (Hux map, and now Xeno map) have some of the most fair tiles in DBD , hopefully im not the only one that noticed this.
Its a gym, not loops.
Loops are up to survivors who can react the direction quick. Gym is up to who minds game better.
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@WilliamSN said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3511098#Comment_3511098
"environmental awareness" already exists via Sound like the terror radius and chase music , killer red stain, etc etc.
however being able to wait at a spot that guarantees you wont be caught because you can see all 3 possible routes and run accordingly isn't a very skilled endeavour , it nukes all skill expression and demolishes the suspense and "horror" factor of the game.
its akin to playing a custom game vs surv bots, surv bots having perma wallhacks just turns loops to a mind numbing 3 spins into pallet stun simulator.
In loops, killer can moon walk, suddenly changing the direction forces survivor to react on time, or not enough time to make it to a pallet.
Consider killers have higher speed and Bloodlust. Killers dont need to look behind in chase, survivors usually looking back and getting stuck.
Its weird to complain about the base mechanic since the game release.
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@Alice_pbg said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3509971#Comment_3509971
that too. in most cases.
but sometimes, the game swings back into the survivors hands if they take the time to reset, or the killer just ######### up somewhere.
sometimes the killer gets the advantage on a short game, and sometimes the survivors get the advantage on a longer game.
Killers keep the strength exactly the same throughout the match.
this depends on the killer. nemesis and myers being the obvious examples
Players make mistake losing the game, not survivors take time to reset or killer making a mistake.
Killer gets advantage on a short game if survivors make multiple mistake early game and ends up get half the hook count in 5min. I dont see how killer actually get advantage in a short game case beside that.
The same to survivors, I dont see how 4 survivors with 6-7 hooks count already, items depleted, most pallets are gone, grouped together to heal each other while Gens get regressed to 0 because no one are doing it, actual get advantage when the match is already reach to 15min.
Myers is the only one, I dont see how Nemesis getting weaker in end game? Nemesis's power is designed to "feel" hes getting stronger in late game for how his M2 work: short range, takes 3 hits to down -> to longer range, break pallet, takes 2 hits to down (when there is no vaccin left). Zombies are also patrol between Gens, the less Gens, the shorter path they patrol, the shorter time for them to complete a lap between Gens.
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@Alice_pbg said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3509878#Comment_3509878
If you just let the person get tunneled, the game is a 3v1.
3v1 is harder for survivors than a 4v1.
It's simple math. Most times, some altruism is required for the best result.
The longer the 4 survivors are alive, the best for the survivor team.
No one can force you to not tunnel, usually.
But reseting the chase and bloodlust for the other survivor is sometimes enough to waste enough of your time
The longer the 4 survivors are alive, the best for the survivor team.
Technically, the faster the game end, the best for survivor team.
Despite all 4 being alive. They may already use their perks (example for DS, Unbreakable, Lucky break...any perks that have limited use), already use their items, already use pallets, already have a few hook stage.
Survivors start the game being strongest, and rapidly drops their resources the longer the match is, even if no one dies. Killers keep the strength exactly the same throughout the match.
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@Tsulan said:
Both sides tunnel. Or would you ignore a gen thats at 90% and regressing to go for a fresh gen?
If survivors could gain back their hook stage and remove all the progression killer did, just like a 90% Gen can be regressed to 0. That would be a more fair comparison.
To Op, tunneling isnt fun for most survivors, but its fair. I mean, good luck to killers take the easier way to 4K then play against a much stronger team later and being stomped back, thats the most fair part, and the root of complaining about how hard the game is for killers discussion.
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People always see escape or 4K as winning, you cant change that.
A killer can play 10-12 hooks for 4K, the moment they're matched against better team, they will do 6 hooks for 4K. If its out of their control and they cant 4K with least hooks possible, they would play A-S tier killers.
Devs cant balance an average killer to casually 4K the best team. Its only up to killer players understand where they stand in MMR and accept 60% kill rate.
On survivors part, you may easy to see survivors start to do totem, chest, attempt to get in a chase if there is 1 Gen left while killers have 1-2 hooks. Its not that survivors only want to do Gen, its just the nature of the game that if 1 survivor dies at 2 Gens left, that will be 3K and a hatch escape, which at that point, its pointless to do Gen.
For me, getting 1 hook before the first Gen done is a fair start to both side. Sadly if killer decides to camp, that would guarantee 2K even if other survivors rush Gens.
Then killers just tell survivors to "rush Gen", which survivors do nowaday. No you dont want to tell survivors to rush Gen, I find its as stupid as survivors telling killers to "pressure", the best pressure in game is tunneling, which you dont want killers to do it.
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I made this topic before, to me they need to add the cloth on vault locations. A survivor in this match didnt know that place was vault-able.
They should revisit old maps and add cloth on all vault, even TL and gym. And add a tutorial how to recognize a vault location.
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Incase you're struggling against Survivor running without sound.
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As Trapper main, I dont like Corrupted, it back fire me more than should. I want survivors to sit on Gen far away while I setup traps around Gens that spawn near me. If they run to you because of a blocked Gen, likely a survivor will follow you to disarm traps.
I feel Terminus is pointless if not paired with Blood warden.
No way out, may not always get 4 stacks before all Gens done. I prefer Remember me, easier to get stack and also stronger. Forcing survivors to stay at Gate for half a min is better than them hiding and wait for 1min.
STBFL is a great perk for itself.
My build is Rancor, Remember me, Terminus, Blood warden. Each of them supports each other extremely well.
Rancor has 2 jobs, kill obsession so they cant by pass Remember. Or use them as easy target to down and hook them to bait or activate Blood warden.
Remember me, nature of Trapper to trap on each Gate, you can use traps as a warning to check an opening Gate, also work well with Iri stone.
Terminus force survivors to open Gate, easier to active Blood warden.
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I ran 2 Gen and a half, I decided to "make a mistake", getting down and give Bubba his first hook, this is what I get, straight up camped to death.
I totally could run to shack (on the right of the image) to extend the chase. But I ran back to a gym that I already drop its pallet and get down after.
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@woundcowboy said:
You can thank the survivor mains for the current state of the game. They cried and cried to get gen regression gutted, and this is what you get. Killers have to play optimally to win. It doesn’t matter if chasing is the most fun part for you; winning is fun for the killer.
Translation: you want to 4K every match with 12 hooks, not 4K every match with 6 hooks.
Tunneled out surely not fun for survivors, but they also need their 40% chance to escape, winning is fun for survivor.
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I always have this image in mind.
You have 2 choices, (1) or (2).
The B person would not appreciate whatever choice you made, the A person would appreciate if you pick (1), and would be sad if you pick (2).
There are so many people (especially killers who just play against a bully squad), prefer the option (2) because they feel good seeing the B person in pain, while ignoring the A person's feeling. Thats the sad part.
I dont blame them though, I used to be like that, but I changed.
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@GroßusSchmiedus said:
The first rule of this game is to not care what anybody thinks, being players complaining about your playstyle or Killers/Survivors complaining about you not running the meta and playing optimally. Just do what you think have to do to achieve whatever you want.
But asides from that, 3 Genning can go to hell, not only does it make the game miserable and boring it also bottlenecks perks and Killers. BHVR is afraid of buffing regression/gen block perks and some Killers or changing core mechanics that would help and that is sadly justified. If i learned something from the DBD community its that if something can be abused it will be abused no matter what.
That being said i think base regression speed needs to be looked at cause its so slow its barely worth kicking a gen (0.25c per second, meaning it takes 4 seconds to regress 1 second of progress). And i think that buffing gen-regression would be healthier than most alternatives since you won't get much value out of it with camping/tunneling, but for that to happen the 3 Gen strat needs to be taken to the woods and shot.
I would put the limited charges that a Gen can be regressed, something like 45sec per Gen. Then push up the regression rate to 1 charge per sec. That would make Gen kicking alot of worth but at the same time it would not be OP.
Currently, a kick on Gen can go between an instant tap from survivor, or regress a 80 charges Gen down to 0.
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@ohheyitsbobcat said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3507339#Comment_3507339
Yeah it seems like male survivors are bugged and go a little further.
The vid made me drew this
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Because…
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@Devil_hit11 said:
sounds like pharmacy perk.
Im not talking about perks
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@Justa335i said:
The game has been so optimized at this point that its just how most people play.
Unless there is a split mode between comp and quickplay, i dont see it ever changing.
It doesnt work. People who want to do everything possible to win can play "quickplay". People wants easy game to win, thats the problem.
MMR in theory is great, if you try hard to win, you should be matched against equal try hard opponent, or at least people who are better but not try hard. Its only MMR can go all over the place somehow that match you against far better or worse opponent.
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The root is just about camping, tunneling, gen rushing. As long as those still stay in game, there will be unfun matches.
And Im sure they're just gonna soften it somehow (as they did with extra 50sec Gen, basekit BT and the future self unhook), because people create discussions and increase interaction when they have something to complain, not when satisfied.
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@woundcowboy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3506025#Comment_3506025
Then why do I consistently 3-4k by tunneling?
Because if killer is not try hard and still get 4K. Then try hard killers are impossible for anyone to escape.
If survivors arent good, efficient and able to make 4 escape against good killer, that would be broken.
Works 2 ways.
I said to you before, if both side have equal skill, the chance should be 2K/2E. Then its up to which side tries harder win the match.
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@NotAnotherDoctor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3505219#Comment_3505219
"I play at max MMR"
Im sorry but im howling at this.
How do you know if you play at max MMR when no one knows what their mmr is?
Game is hard for them = survivors are really good = high MMR.
But in reality, skill 10 team beat a skill 6 killer as hard as skill 7 team beat a skill 3 killer. For one thing, Im sure they're not playing against skill 10 team.
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@Smoe said:
A hold your breath mechanic when inside a locker while injured, press & hold some button in to suppress any noises from your Survivor for a limited time.
A killer with the power to jump high (with cooldowns per jump), could be used to jump over loops, walls at jungle gyms or just use it to reach a platform above on a structure or main building with more than one level to it, could also be used to hit a Survivor if the killers hits one on their way down during a jump.
More interactive mini games when repairing Generators and healing, could probably borrow some from other games.
Survivor exclusive items, only available for the Survivor character you play as and have 1 time uses, the items would be related to the character specifically, like Mikaela's book, Haddie's gadget, Jonah's tablet, etc.
A new mechanic to bring a sacrificed or mori'd Survivor back into the match as a bot, however it would come at some severe cost and risk for doing so.
More features that Survivors are able to do just for the sake of it like wall-leaning, roll, slide or even going prone to name a few examples, they wouldn't serve any purpose objective-wise, however they would allow Survivors to move and express themselves in more fun or immersive ways.
Map hazards, causes debuffs for both Survivors and Killer upon contact.
Maps with rooms that changes layout whenever a generator is completed.
These are just off the top of my head.
I really think Hold your breath should be a mechanic for survivor, each sec you hold the button, increase 1sec Exhaustion.
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Congratulation, you proved that Killers are in good spot right now, just like I did before !!!
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@dbdthegame said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3503462#Comment_3503462
Go on, tell me. Breaking LOS is literally how you loop Nurse. Zigzag through clutter, go through JGs with odd pathing, hold W at times, double back at others. Playing against Nurse is tons of fun and a breath of fresh air from something like a SM or Knight.
Trapper, the weakest killer in the game, does indeed have more counters than Nurse, the strongest killer in the game. It's true but I don't know what it proves.
- 2nd blink movement time is 1sec. Her range is 12m, you can run for 4m.
- Lung time is 1sec, her reach is 6m, you can run for 4m.
Its not up to you to decide, its up to how good Nurse is. If they're good, no matter your choice, you get hit.
The only chance for you to out run her lung range is she has to pause and check which direction before lung, good Nurse doesnt give you this precious time, she instantly lung post blink.
I dont complain on Nurse because great Nurse is rare; good Nurses makes the game end fast, I dont have to endure the pain; average Nurse feels fun.
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She's cute I think
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Killers can chase 1 survivor to death and then play against other 3 but still have high BP because their game play is a loop itself.
Find a survivor (Hunter) -> Kick Gen (Brutality) -> Chase (Hunter) -> Use power (Deviousness) -> hit (Brutality) -> Chase (Hunter) -> Use power (Deviousness) -> hit (Brutality) -> Hook (Sacrifice)
Then repeat.
For survivors, its totally depended on Killers. If Killer tunnel 1 survivor to death, or camping.
- That one survivor only have Boldness
- Another one only try get body block 2-3 times -> unhooking (Altruism)
- Other two only get Objective from doing Gens
- If lucky enough, they may get Survival
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@jamally093 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3502296#Comment_3502296
I would but I've played with default since 2018 and I would basically have to try leaning the controls all over again.
You will get used to it after playing for a day.
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@Nos37 said:
Maybe give it the Plot Twist approach?
It's a powerful self-heal, but can only be used once during the trial, and again at the end of the trial.
I always think survivor' perks should work like that, stronger, but limited, like a resource.
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@not_Queef said:
Don't take a tape, just wait for the teleport spam to fill your condemned meter and then get the killer's attention so you can go next.
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It was David and Feng with 2 Gens left. I kept hearing noise near the same Gen and checked more frequently. After many times, I saw Feng, chased and killed. David got hatch.
Post game, I saw David had Diversion and kept doing it at Feng’ Gen.
Killer has no info whats your teammates do. If its an opportunity to get a hit, they will take it.
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@Exxodus21 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3502137#Comment_3502137
What doesn't make sense? The EGC shouldn't favor one side or the other so slowing the timer down to help survivors escape in the endgame shouldn't happen. Even of the whole EGC system needs to be reworked so be it but it should be as neutral as possible to both sides.
EGC wasnt a thing back then, survivors could spend 20min to rescue the last survivor to get 4 escape.
Now it has a timer which is already favor killer. Why do you think the time slowed down is favoring survivors? There is still a timer, its slowed down, not paused.
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Whats SWF stand for?
Survive with Foes?
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@sanees said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3501618#Comment_3501618
it looks like: survivors can already see each other so remove the new hud
Okay okay, increase the stacks to 10, hope you happy and sleep well.
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Killers have 2 stacks cool down weapon basekit already. Just decrease the maximum stacks to 6. To bring the maximum cool down back to old days.