Blueberry
Blueberry
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@Dreamnomad said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3743545#Comment_3743545
You aren't using it right then. You pair it with Franklin's Demise. If you are using it with Franklin's and you still think it is underpowered then I don't know what to tell you but you are clearly doing it wrong.
Or inversely you're just going against bad survivors. Good players just move the items to the side of the map and now you're out 2 perk slots.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3743592#Comment_3743592
Gonna take more than a few seconds.
Assuming you aren't being chased, you need to do the following:
Remember where your teammates dropped their items at.
Run to that place on the map.
Pick up the item.
Run to a corner.
Drop the item.
Travel back to do something useful.
I know that we are only allowed to exist in incredibly biased niches, per DBD law, but I do think a lot of Killer players really underestimate more derived forms of slowdown. That's not insignificant and it will happen a couple of times during a match.
Couple that with some very good aura-reading and you've got a very nice build, especially on Killers like Vecna, Huntress, DS, etc etc who get value from aura-reading.
It's true I was being hyperbolic but it's because I think you are as well in the other direction. Yes it takes some time, but it is nothing compared to actual slow downs and it's for 2 perk slots. Ultimately whether you get good value from it is also up to how competent the survivors are, not you as killer, which is the root of things that end up weak.
I wouldn't call it bad, but it's far from being good.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3743585#Comment_3743585
So it functions as slow down as well as aura-reading?
What a combo!
Oh wow the few seconds to pick up and place in the corner and then zero aura reading! And all for only 2 perk slots! So comparable to just running 2 more gen slow down perks. lol
Sarcasm aside, that really does not sound good whatsoever.
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In no way does this need nerfs whatsoever. It needs buffs. It isn't good.
You can pick up other survivors items on the ground and move them to the corners of the map as well.
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Umm if anything it needs serious buffs. It's very weak. The only time you'd run this is for meme builds, not if your intent was actually winning.
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Too addon dependent and too much information given to survivors.
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It may help you to watch some guides on killers and how to path as survivor. After enough practice it will be significantly easier.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3742715#Comment_3742715
That's going to be statistical noise with a large enough sample size though. The outlier games players experience on an individual basis aren't going to make a dent when they're sampling hundreds of thousands of trials from all regions.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3742700#Comment_3742700
They have to quantify the results somehow. Kill rates are going to be the most consistent way to do that across all regions and MMR brackets.
"Kill rates are going to be the most consistent way to do that across all regions and MMR brackets. "
100% disagree. Hooks, while still with some flaws, would be significantly more accurate for gauging balance. There are also multiple other factors that should be used in the data as well.
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The idea is flawed at concept because it relies on the developers to have a good understanding of killers "tier" in terms of power which as evident throughout the games history of balance changes I would not say they do.
I also think his statement on if the game had base regression built in that people would still just stack more regression is wrong. Basically no one is saying to add base regression and then keep all regression perks the same, that would be silly. So I think that's misrepresenting what people generally say. What people do generally say is that if they did put base regression that they would heavily gut all gen regression perks. If they were nerfed that hard you would not still see people stacking them after base kit regression was implemented as then their value level compared to chase or info perks would be significantly less.
Base regression instead of just adding faster kick regression like he wants would also be healthier as it only rewards playing well. Not being literal here but just for example, base kit Pop or PR only gives value if you are able to down and hook people. His idea of base kick regression gives the value to everyone, no matter what. So that rewards bad players and hurts lower mmr players where regression is much less necessary and killers generally do really good already.
Yes there are a few outlier killers that inhibit base changes, but there aren't that many outliers. Just tone down the few outliers and the problems solved. I don't understand why we spend years inhibiting good changes for the entire killer roster just because Nurse and Blight exist. We need to stop balancing the game around small exceptions to general rules.
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@solarjin1 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3742836#Comment_3742836
I think if your point was true there wouldn't be many people playing solo q.
Not true. The game is in fact balanced around solo queue. So doing solo queue is not an unfair advantage.
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@solarjin1 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3742400#Comment_3742400
"People don't like playing against someone that has an unfair advantage, they want a fair game."
i don't know about that. Your playing an asymmetrical game where one side is balance around losing 60% of the time.
I don't think that it being asymmetrical or a 60% kill rate goal contradicts my point at all.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3742622#Comment_3742622
Based on...what? Why is it not reliable?
It's based on kill rates. Do you want me to list all the issues with going with simply kill rates and nothing else? I can, it's just already been repeated ad nauseam here and I'm sure you've already seen it plenty here with how active you are just like I am.
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@Bafugaboo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3742515#Comment_3742515
I agree survivors have speed tunneled. I think and a point deficit perk where at least 3 of 4 leave trial under 5k points.
I can't tell what you're saying.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3742469#Comment_3742469
If it were massively unbalanced, the data would reflect that. And it doesn't. At some point players have to reconcile the aggregate data with their beliefs.
For that to actually be a relevant answer the data would need to be reliable. It's not.
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Queue's are a little longer but I don't think it's to any significant degree that it's an issue.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3742536#Comment_3742536
In deed, how dare they have the standard of how options menues work from the early 2000s instead of what we have currently, where is my view distance slider bhvr???
Lol I totally feel you. There are quite a few just fundamental features that should've existed in the game years ago and we're still missing.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3742489#Comment_3742489
I mean not just in the heat of the moment ^^ People on the forums where you typically have more time to think about what you will write do the same thing and tend to complain about the players...
Well nothing is spoken in a monolith. There are always exceptions. I just think in general more blame development than the swf themselves if we're comparing.
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What's OP about some insta hooks for the event? I've yet to hear a real reason why this is a problem. Survivors got some strong stuff as well for the event.
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Only use is being meme'y. It's a bad perk. The downside for pick up is irrelevant and if they know you have it they can just use up their item and drop it in the corner of the map anyway.
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I don't think saying it first or not has any bearing and I've never thought of it that way.
I generally only see gg's though from the winning side most the time. The losing side rarely has sportsmanship from my experience unfortunately.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3742459#Comment_3742459
But then again people hate on the players far more in general than on the developers for allowing them, they should get far more criticism than they currently get for still not fixing stuff after 8 years...
I do agree. It's human nature to get heated in the moment and take it out on the swf themselves. It does happen a lot and I can be guilty of it myself. I would say that if you took the majority of all those people and asked them later after they've calmed down they would all agree it's not really at the swf and that they're really angry at whoever allows it to continue. I think another reason it can be taken out on the swf more is because that's generally speaking the only outlet they have. The few outlets that exist that can reach the devs in any way feel generally ignored most the time and I would say players don't really feel heard most of the time. I think there's been a large disconnected between the devs and players for a long time. Even the devs and game itself for that matter. I think those are statements most players would agree with. I do however think the devs have been improving a lot lately in those areas, just still a long way to go.
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@Kaitsja said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3742396#Comment_3742396
Again, as I already explained, fun and balance are two different things and a more balanced game isn't necessarily a more fun game.
No, players who abuse exploits shouldn't be banned. That would kill the player base.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3742400#Comment_3742400
There is plenty of recent hate for SWF, on here at least. People do think every SWF they face is a squad, though, because if they didn't there wouldn't be people demanding killers be able to opt-out of playing against SWFs.
Casual friends hanging out is not the massive advantage you think it is. Not since the HUD update. If people wanted a 'fair game', they wouldn't be playing Dead by Daylight. As an Asymm, it is inherently unfair.
If people didn't like playing against someone with an unfair advantage, there would be no survivors. Killer, by default, has an unfair advantage over the survivors in that they are faster.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3742401#Comment_3742401
I would argue that anyone who exaggerates the advantage of communication and coordination has only ever played optimally.
People who play casually are not:
- Tracking the killer's location
- Coordinating their perks
- Coordinating where they go down
- Tracking everyone's location
- Using an established callout system
For the most part, they're talking about things that aren't even related to the game. So, no, SWFs are not getting a bunch of free perks. They have the potential to, but then they wouldn't be casual players anymore. Killers do not need compensation for playing against SWFs, least of all free perks.
"People do think every SWF they face is a squad, though, because if they
didn't there wouldn't be people demanding killers be able to opt-out of
playing against SWFs. "That is a false equivalency. People demanding to opt out of SWF does not mean they think they're all squads. People do not think every SWF is a squad. That is a strawman repeated ad nauseam that simply isn't true.
"Casual friends hanging out is not the massive
advantage you think it is. Not since the HUD update. If people wanted a
'fair game', they wouldn't be playing Dead by Daylight. As an Asymm, it
is inherently unfair."Sorry but it is. Casual friends is still a ridiculously large advantage that the game is not balanced around. Saying all unfairness is fine because it's an assym game doesn't really make since as a point for what we're talking about. I could just take any extremely unhealthy and overpowered thing that has existed in the game in the past that needed to be removed and just say, "oh yeah it's actually fine because this is an assym game so unfairness is baked into it". Don't like insta mori's on first down? Hey that unfairness is what an assym is so it should stay in the game.
As you can see that wouldn't be a rational point for me to make.
"If people didn't like playing against someone with an unfair advantage,
there would be no survivors. Killer, by default, has an unfair advantage
over the survivors in that they are faster."That's another false statement. Killer being faster does not equate to an unfair advantage. It's just an advantage. Survivor has their own advantages to counter that. You are comparing things as oranges to oranges when they are not.
What makes something an unfair advantage vs just an advantage is if the game does not have an equivalent counter balance of advantage on the other side to compensate. IE "counter play" you could say.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3742400#Comment_3742400
What defines fair in that sense? Usually I would say fairness involves playing along with the rules of the game, and the game rules don't forbid players to play with their friends while sitting in coms... The only thing you could say is that the game is not balanced around that information, which would be true, but that is not something you should hate the players for but the devs... But all they would say is that the killrates don't indicate that communication gives an advantage... Which is ridiculous to say the least.
The issue is as you said, the game is not balanced around it.
I think it's actually not hate for the SWF themselves as you are saying, it's hate for allowing an unbalanced feature to persist, so whoever would be allowing said unbalanced feature to persist in its current state. IE the game not being balanced around it. The hate isn't generally targeted at the players themselves, even though people do get a little heated in the moment.
As also mentioned, kill rates are a terrible reflection of balance for a multitude of reasons.
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There is no recent hate of SWF, people have hated facing SWF since its creation. People also don't think every SWF they face is "squad". People tend to strawman that a lot. Even just "casual friends hanging out" is a massive advantage. People don't like playing against someone that has an unfair advantage, they want a fair game. Against SWF, even a casual one, it's not a fair game.
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I actually feel like Hag is one of the most overrated killers. She's just a pub stomper. She does exceptionally well against bad players but gets destroyed by good ones/swf.
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I don't like the survivor ones but I like both the killer ones. I think its Pigs best skin so far. I plan to grab both.
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Updated the original post with another video further demonstrating the issues and simplifying them to make fixing them easier.
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It’s actually really bad and needs buffs.
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@CountOfTheFog said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3738848#Comment_3738848
Correct, that's always been my understanding
I don’t think almost anyone takes tier lists in that way, be it viewers or creators of said tier list. A tier list of their power but based on the persons own skill wouldn’t make any sense at all. I’ve never heard of anyone interpreting tier lists this way.
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I would give some buffs to both of them but even in their current state I think Lightfooted and Iron Will are underrated. I can get some pretty good mind games out of them both, requires a bit of skill though.
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You think on average people make tier lists based on their own personal skill with said killers?
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@CountOfTheFog said:
Tier lists are pointless. It all depends on who is playing the Killer.
It’s kind of assumed when people make tier lists that they are being played to the best of their ability. People make them based on their opinion of said killers, not their personal skill with them. So tier lists aren’t pointless at all.
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It's got a few mixed features of both party and competitive games. However, I think there's enough features as evidence that it leans significantly more towards a competitive game. I think to still call DBD a party game today would be quite a stretch.
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New killers are almost always released very weak and end up needing significant buffs and reworks later.
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Well firstly you've got lots of those win streak numbers wrong and exaggerated.
Secondly, survivors can go on long winstreaks like that as well. Bar like Nurse/Blight but those are exceptions to normal game rules.
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@magical571 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3731505#Comment_3731505
"DBD is not a casual/party game."
the lead game director disagrees. he's been clear, up to this day, that dbd can be competitive in the way that players in any game might try and win the most, but it is not designed, balanced, etc to be competitive. he repeats this again and again in any interview or podcast like the slasher podcast that he is in.
My opinion though? add a surrender option for each side. simple. no solution is gonna be perfect, but surrendering is the most reasonable we might get. Add a minimum lenght for a match before it becomes aviable, and you got it in a good place to be used.They have not been clear in that. Please, feel free to link proof of that, I follow their content quite closely.
"My opinion though? add a surrender option for each side. simple. no
solution is gonna be perfect, but surrendering is the most reasonable we
might get. Add a minimum lenght for a match before it becomes aviable,
and you got it in a good place to be used."Why wouldn't the SWF just surrender every single match they didn't like the killer or map? Starting to lose? NEXT. Bonus points since now they can lower their mmr faster to bully more people.
That would be a terrible change.
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If he actually gets to T3 before the game is over the team completely threw, so not really an issue. Also, very loopable and you can just locker jump. Easy counters.
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I’m wondering this as well. I have yet to receive any of the supposed email rewards. Nothing.
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Just make Soma base kit.
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Vecna himself got some good improvements so probably worth getting. We’ll see how much they improve him.
His perks are all completely terrible though and won’t be seen outside memes. They needed significant buffs and didn’t get it.
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@CodeDB said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3728977#Comment_3728977
That's interesting you are claiming to have a solo queue win rate in the high 70% range. I wanted to see the gameplay so I checked out your last two weeks of Twitch VODs and found you only played 7 games of survivor on stream and your win rate was actually 29% and that included a game where a killer DCed with 4 gens left (thanks to an Orange Glyph, who can blame them for wanting out of that match?).
Am I missing something with the numbers here?
Also, really impressed at your Onryo win streak. 38 games in that time frame (from my count) with all of them being 3/4k's. Over 3 gens remained on average for those games too, absolutely spectacular gameplay.I don’t only count my streamed matches for one. Also, I don’t count DCs or games where there’s a rage quit right at the start of the game since that’s essentially a DC as well and devs don’t count those. I’ve been working at the hospital with over time this past week so I haven’t streamed as much. Current win rate at this exact moment I believe is around 68% though. I put streamed and not streamed games in my spreadsheet.
Yeah I’m recording all my Onryo data on the way to p100, p85 at the moment so I’ll be there in a few days. I only started recording the data around p15 or so and I’m at a 97.8% ish win rate out of like 368 games I think. With most my losses being near the start when I was figuring out her best strats. I think I’ve had about 7 losses in those. Don’t quote my exact number I’m not at my computer atm so I’m spitballing from memory. Current win streak is at 150 and still going. I don’t tunnel either and only 1 gen slow down perk as you probably saw. I appreciate the compliment though. I never see anyone play Onryo so I wanted to see how much I could get out of her. She’s significantly better than most people think and most people play her wrong.
I just record when I feel like it so my data is for my own personal scoring so I’ll know how I’m doing. I don’t stream all of it as I don’t care if anyone believes it or not since it’s mainly just for my own interest. I’ll turn on my stream to record more this week since I’ll have some time off.
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@ZE8ERDEE said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3731505#Comment_3731505
it happens with or without them so that means little. There is no way to stop players who adamantly don’t want to play the devs even state this themselves in the patch notes addressing face camping changes. Locking players in a match they don’t want to be in is not a good substitute and they’ll still find ways to make the match worse or to get out early. DBD is more of a party game especially consider the popularity of the new mode where seemingly most don’t like or are sick of the meta and competitive nature some are trying to take the game.
If you want to keep people playing you need to add incentive not add more reasons to leave or just not be allowed to play.
"it happens with or without them so that means little."
That is factually a false statement. I'm not sure how long you've been around but we had a time where they tested bringing them down to see what would happen. It was chaos. The DC rate skyrocketed. So no, it does not happen with or without them. It does indeed have a substantial impact on DC rates by having a DC penalty.
"There is no way to stop players who adamantly don’t want to play"
If they adamantly don't want to play then they shouldn't be queuing up in the first place. People will stop DC'ing if each DC makes them waste hours of their day in queue.
"Locking players in a match they don’t want to be in is not a good
substitute and they’ll still find ways to make the match worse or to get
out early"The point is to limit those ways to get out of the match early to things that waste substantial amount of their time to discourage it. Again, if trying to get out early makes them waste hours of their time they will stop.
"DBD is more of a party game especially consider the popularity of the
new mode where seemingly most don’t like or are sick of the meta and
competitive nature some are trying to take the game."DBD isn't the temporary chaos shuffle game mode. It's the actual normal game. So referencing chaos mode as proof of it being a party game does not make sense. The normal DBD game is more of a competitive game than a party game.
"If you want to keep people playing you need to add incentive not add more reasons to leave or just not be allowed to play."
You are never going to make everyone happy. If they want to keep people playing they need to address the entitled people that are ruining the games for the rest the player base.
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@ZE8ERDEE said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3731485#Comment_3731485
How if it’s already happening currently? People dc often over anything and you legitimately can’t stop people from doing so. I’d understand if there was a ranked mode or something but it’s an extremely casual game, if ur not having fun you dip
The fact it's already happening is why it needs more restrictions. You can legitimately stop people. Heavier DC penalties and the inability to remove yourself will drop the DC and removal rates massively as it will waste significantly more amounts of their time if they want to do it. DBD is not a casual/party game.
We want to de incentivize ruining the game for other people. If someone thinks they need to DC or remove themselves that often then DBD probably isn't the game for them.
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This would be a disaster for the game. We need heavier DC punishments and to remove the ability to remove yourself on hook.
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Map offerings aren't the problem, maps are. Fix the maps.
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@VomitMommy said:
I would change only two things right now:
-make 3-gen feature count only for actual kicks
-make survivors always spawn togetherjust increasing gen time is boring and actually forcing people to run gen perks.
Those sound like pretty fair and balanced ideas to me.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3731353#Comment_3731353
i don't think early game is issue. it is regression/passive game delay over time that is the issue. killer's regression is too weak and the killer have not a single base-kit regression perk for successfully winning chases. there is nothing that punishes the survivors in term of gens when you do well.
what killer need is 150%-200% gen regression and one of the regression perks base-kits that works off downs which could either be
- global surge after a down
- Pain res
Base regression of 200% and a built in pain res would work. There needs to be things that reward the killer for getting new hooks on different survivors base kit.
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I do think gens go too fast but I don’t think just adding gen time is the answer. Gen slow down shouldn’t be required but it general speaking is. The gens need to take longer to finish and gen regression perks should be gutted in the process. Currently survivors can be completely trash at looping and go down very fast yet still win the game just because of gen speeds. That shouldn’t be a thing. It’s the same thing as if the killer is bad at chasing he shouldn’t be getting a 3-4K.
Rather than adding gen time I think we need an early game collapse. Think something like Corrupt Intervention. I also think there should be a small gen repair penalty if injured. This encourages healing and makes just ignoring healing and gen rushing more difficult. Something small here like a 10% slow if injured.
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If I’m already running perks to kick gens then sure, otherwise it’s terrible. It’s generally going to be a dead perk though. We already had the perk at 20% before so we know how popular it will be. It wasn’t. No one ran the perk.
That said, no one’s gonna run it as their core slow down but potentially if they’re already stacking 4 slow downs they’ll throw it on the pile.
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Yeah I’d take that. I don’t personally run that much slow down right now myself anyway. Maybe not literally that exact change, but the concept of gutting all of the gen regression perks and slowing the gens down, in whatever form that may be, is one of the directions the game needs. I probably wouldn’t go the route of just adding gen time to slow them down though.
It’s similar to the changes we need with tunneling.