Tsair
Tsair
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Assuming you're exclusively talking about the survivor side, the biggest advice I can give is play killer a bit. Try getting better as killer, see other survivors, and methods they use to outplay you. You'll eventually see some really strong survivors and their strategies in action, and get more of an understanding as to 'why' those plays work.
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@noctis129 said:
This depends on how often a survivor is expected to escape.
I escape over half my matches. I should only be escaping about 20% of the time.
There is a misconception that killers are toxic. Ive played killer consistently before but I am survivor main.
Survivors are the real toxic players hiding in sheep's clothing making accusations that killers are toxic.
It is also a myth that there are equal number of toxicity from both survivor and killer.
U take 100 killers and 100 survivors, it's the survivors that will be more toxic. It's just how the game is. I like to bully the killer myself and trash talk the killer to Oblivion. Why? Cuz it's fun.
Killers at least try to follow the rulebook made by survivors. Many killers refuse to camp, tunnel, mori, or even use NOED and such.
With survivors, there's no such thing. They have no rulebook and thus, have no Honor, but they got the biggest mouth. And the game caters to them.
Killers are the real victims. Survivors are the real bullies This is why ppl don't want to play killer.
Dunno where you get your idea of 'Should be escaping' percentage. Generally a 'balanced game' would have all gens done and two survivors escape. There are four survivors, you should be escaping abboooout 50% of the time with perfect balance.
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Camping exit doors, to be clearer.
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I always appreciate seeing your posts and comments, Karu. You seem like you genuinely understand both sides, and it makes me happy.
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3v1 as in they can't do gens or really help while they have Victor on them. If they keep him hostage, you don't need to hit them. Just take that player out of the match by leaving victor on them. If they don't give you your power back, they only have 3 functioning players.
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Nurse has the lowest kill percentage of all killers in both all ranks and high ranks. Yes, she's nigh on unbeatable in the right hands at the right maps, but she has weaknesses you can exploit to gain an upperhand. And she is -so- hard to learn that most of the playerbase cannot play her against a competent team. There should be a 'hardest killer' for sure, and if you put in the time to get -very- good with that killer, you should do well for the most part.
I feel like Blight is bordering into a similar terrain, though to a far lesser extent. I believe extremely difficult killers with a high reward are the most fun to play, and as survivor I also love going against Nurses because it's fun to test them, and if you find them struggling, you can really feel the power in outplaying the strongest killer in the wrong hands.
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One DC would be a five minute ban. Not 30 minutes. That ban would take less time then it would for your internet to restart. If it was happening consistently, I DEFINITELY wouldn't want you as one of my teammates, knowing you risked DCing at any moment.
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OH, another recommendation: Don't use addons while learning her. I would advise against even Plaid Flannel, but I understand it can be helpful for some to visualize better. Generally, you want to make things as neutral as possible while you really get her baseline down.
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Rank 1 Nurse main here, and I'll just say it's very worth it. It feels -very- good to trounce people as Nurse, but you will get a lot of salt when you do get good. My best recommendation is, while you're learning, never try to anticipate. Anticipating with Nurse is what will get you losses when you don't know when to risk it. Never blink after someone unless you have two charges. If you don't need to blink to hit them, I.E, they ran into a corner, then don't. Save your blink for the follow up. That being said, don't be afraid to use your blinks. Never walk after someone for more than ten seconds. Lastly, keep track of whenever someone uses dead hard, and try to force it out before your second blink.
The biggest key to learning nurse... Don't be afraid to miss blinks. Lose matches because of missed blinks. Get your blinks closer every time. Eventually you'll get the hits. Even when you're a top tier nurse, you will likely need a warmup match or two every day, and if you get a 4 stack during those two... It's gonna be rough. Still, keep at it, and best of luck to you!
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I main Nurse so you can imagine the hate thrown around, but my best tip is to not let it get to you. Red ranks can be toxic, yes, but also the best players are generally in red ranks. Its good to go against them, even if you lose, because you learn more about good survivor play. I don't often get only 1k, but I usually need a warmup match to get back on Nurse's blinks, and today it was unfortunately a 3 stack with one running Object, and all survivors were solid. I lost the match pretty hard and the survivors were toxic and complaining about my build and calling me terrible, etc. It hurts and feels bad, but just take the blows and learn from what happened. Honestly, don't be afraid to turn off chat if it really gets to you. You'll very rarely be missing anything constructive.
But keep learning new killers, keep playing and experiencing more the game has to offer, and you'll be a better player for it, even if there are a bunch of losses on the way. Learn to punish toxic behavior, or ignore survivors that are being toxic if you feel they might actually get away from you. Focus on the weaker survivors (without camping, of course. Please, for the love of god don't facecamp no matter how crappy you're feeling.) and catch them out. Gen defense is a tricky thing to learn at the high ranks, so try and figure out strategies that work for you, or builds. Just remember there's no wrong build necessarily, but I wouldn't recommend NOED because it's essentially a perk to use when you expect to lose every gen.
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I main nurse, so second chance perks don't really bother me much... But I don't think DH is unfair. It gives less distance than the other exhaustion perks, the other ones just feel like an 'Oh, they got away' rather than the immediate denial of a down that dead hard gives. It's the mental planning that it disrupts that really makes people dislike it, but I don't think it's any more oppressive than other exhaustion perks. I'd much rather someone have the predictable dead hard and I can outplay it and hit them a second later, rather than sprint burst which disrupts the entire start of a chase. If they use it for distance, then it's just like any other exhaustion perk. Situational, they had to be in position that would allow them to use it. Good survivors can put themselves in this position often. I've played against a LOT of people who are bad with dead hard, and they basically forfeit a perk slot, or give me hits thinking I won't account for it. Dead hard is hard to outplay against people skilled with it, and that's where the frustration comes in.
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The thing is, that situation still sucks for the person hooked. The killer gets punished, but so does that person for doing nothing wrong. Why should there be any benefit to camping? And maybe if camaraderie got buffed to just have this effect, that would also be okay. Camping is just too strong right now.
In your example, how is the team to know the killer is camping? Those gens only get done if no one goes to check on the hook, and no one stays to see if the killer leaves. The game should -NEVER- discourage people from making an effort to save someone, and right now the mechanics heavily favor camping and tunneling.
Tunneling would also be resolved acceptably by this, since there would be horrifyingly unsafe unhooks would become much less common. People could just run by if the killer follows them to a hook, the killer will still likely get a down and the hooked survivor isnt punished for the other ones mistake.
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It's 4v1. It should definitely favor the 4 man team at high level play. That's how asymmetrical games work. This is not a fighting game where both parties should have an equal chance at victory. A team of uncoordinated solo players needs to have a chance (And spoiler, most of the time one really bad player can break a team. I almost always get 3 or 4ks as killer at rank 1, I believe the game is actually killer sided but I won't contest the main point, for sake of avoiding a larger argument.)
A 4 man team of people who all know the game and optimize to do everything they can to escape should escape every time unless they make mistakes. Even if the killer plays perfectly. Don't like it? Don't play killer! The point of asymmetrical games as the one-man side is not to always overwhelm the other team and feel a power fantasy, it's to challenge yourself by taking on four people that you have to multitask down.You are going to lose, and that's the point. You are the boss they need to overcome.
I do believe that there need to be more killers like deadslinger, huntress, and hag (And nurse and spirit, but maybe not that strong) and a little less overpowered of pyramid head and less characters Bubba, Trapper and Legion. M1 killers have a harder time against people with map knowledge because there's only so much mindgaming you can do. You're not meant to win every game. You can be good at the game without winning every time.
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I would say look up a lot of high skill nurse gameplay. They give strong advice for how to position your first blink to ensure you have the opportunity for a hit, and a good perk setup so that you don't find yourself spending too long searching rather than chasing. Apply map pressure is the biggest thing, don't be afraid to slug one if you already have one hooked to try and slow the game down a bit.
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Regarding the first one, I meant more of from a balance perspective, how long should the average chase be to allow for all gens to get finished and two survivors to survive.
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Calling someone sweaty or a try hard is not an insult. Some people have fun when they win, and it's not insane to try to win.
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I would love to have a 5th perk, and have it be a 'high tier' slot. Separate some of the extreme meta perks (DH, UB, DS, BT for survivors, NOED, BBQ, Ruin, Pop for killers) into the high tier slot. Makes builds much more varied and makes perks easier to nerf, just move them into 'high tier' instead of nerfing them.
Wont be done because everyone would complain that they cant use all the perks at once, but still, would be neat.
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I actually agree with this. Unless the spirit has stridor, I have a lot of fun trying to read her and outposition. I feel the same with Nurse, one of my favorite killers to go against. If they're good, the games basically over before it starts, but most can be outplayed.
Add Doctor to the list of annoying ones for me, though I feel he still is a weaker killer. Phead and Deadslinger at top skill won't let a chase go for more than twenty seconds.
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So, essentially, the point is to always have a relatively quick heal time? I will admit that this would make it usable, and makes it counter sloppy butcher, nurses calling, coulrophobia, and other heal perks. Though, it does seem a bit too strong almost, as it also essentially counters the exposed status effect. If that's the point, it would most assuredly become a meta perk, and be on the level of DS/Unbreakable, etc.
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The killer idea is fairly interesting, and it's hard to tell how strong he would be. I'd be thinking around B tier, but it would be hard to say. At optimal play, I feel like he'd use his power just before landing a hit, or just after recovering from it, to follow up with another. I like the idea, it's hard to tell where it lies on the power scale without seeing it in play.
As for the perks, the cursed gold one sounds very interesting. I feel that the targeting may be a bit difficult to enable on mechanics side, though if implemented perfectly it would be a very interesting and useful perk, while not being overly oppressive.
X is very cool as a risk/reward gameplay idea. Honestly, I would suggest including a 'rare or better' item in every chest, to entice survivors into doing it even more after they know the threat.
Siren's call feels a bit too problematic. It's basically a win-the-game instantly perk, as if someone is completes the gen, they have wasted 80 seconds of gen time somewhere else, blocked off another gen that may currently be getting worked up thus wasting another up-to-80-seconds, and you know where they are, meaning you will likely get a down. This would put the survivor team way too far behind for something with no indicator. Perhaps if the fake gen had no skill checks? It would be a very interesting mental game then.
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Gorgon's gaze wouldn't be viable, as lockers are intended to give an inherent risk to searching. If you knew that every locker you passed didn't contain someone, then it would be an unfairly drastic change to the entire game. Lockers would become inherently dangerous in any game, moreso than Iron Maiden already causes. Perhaps if you down a survivor, all lockers containing survivors have their auras revealed for x number of seconds. Would make a bit of awkwardness as a hard combo with BBQ and chili, though.
As for Hideous, Lightborn already interacts with survivors trying to blind you. Perhaps if you're successfully blinded, they gain exposed for 20/25/30 seconds?
Pandora's box I like, but I feel it would need more to be useful. There are, at base, three chests that spawn, and they don't always get searched. The perk is risky, and has very awkward payoff, since chests are generally not searched anywhere near the killer. A possible alternative is that the survivor is prevented from leaving the activation once started, and when finished they scream? It's still a bit weak, but then it is at least very strong when you benefit from it.
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I'll only mention the issues with the perks I can see:
- The lock needs some sort of timer, or the survivor can hold the game hostage. Perhaps 20 seconds, would be enough of a deterrent to urge the killer away, though they could still choose to waste twenty seconds and then pull you out. Interesting base idea, though.
- I'm not sure what this means. The regression rate is canceled the moment survivors touch a generator. If you mean like, restores the generator progress lost to Pop or Surge or something, I don't believe that's viable mechanically.
- This perk would not be used by anyone. It is strictly a SWF bully perk, and not a very good one at that. It would need a trigger for activation as well, which would likely be a secondary ability button or something, and it would create a host of issues such as where is 'behind' the survivor.
- A perk specifically to counter one killer can not exist. If you're saying this is just a fact about him as a survivor, survivors do not have unique abilities to counter specific killers. Only difference is appearance.
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What's the channel?
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If you're saying no hexes, the perks would just be active, killer would destroy. If hexes active, no possibility of NOED unless they destroy a haunted ground.
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Hatch needs a rework to negate the slugfor4k method, but the last person alive should have some chance they isnt 'Do a gen against a killer alone'.
My personal thought is have all gens give communal progress, and the doors open if you work on gens for a total of 30 seconds. Still needs a bit of work but it's a mental work in progress.
For the DS problem you have, survivors are highly encouraged to be altruistic by both game strategy and actual points. If your argument is 'killers lose points for x so they shouldn't do it' you shouldn't then say 'survivors shouldn't do x even though the gain points for it'. You're encouraging the genrush mentality.
As a killer main, I find SWFs annoying but beatable. I can see how they'd be oppressive for a nonredrank, but I doubt you'll get any backing for a boycott. Try the survivor side for a while if you're burning out as killer. It's understandable, and there are plenty of ways to enjoy the game.
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Any means Necessary. I cant really use it in any builds, but it's just so fun
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That's how its always worked. Counts as surviving, items kept (without addons) and no one can depip.
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DS and Unbreakable together is also frowned upon..
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I'd say give it a week for ranks to settle a bit, see how it's working after playing consistently.
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I am a Killer, keep in mind XD You keep trying to throw 'you' in like it accentuates your point. And I feel that it is a multiplayer game that is seen as not competitive, and therefore it should have attempts by both sides to make it more fun or enjoyable for the other side, while also preserving the fun for themselves. It is a game where doing certain tactics makes the game drastically less fun for the other side. Survivors bullying, running four instances of head on and quick and quiet, flashlights, Ob of Obsession, etc. Killers not engaging in the match at all, or tunneling extremely hard, or facecamping.
Complaints should definitely be made about things that are a problem. That's the only way that they have a chance to be fixed in the future. Killer side or survivor side
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I mean yes, if you're a bad killer and that's the only way you can win and you have fun doing it, then do so. You're playing the 1v4 side, you dictate what rate the game is played at. The fact that you disregard any arguments proves that you don't actually care about any of these perks and you just want justification to play in a way that clearly implies you are an extremely weak killer. It's definitely not lame to shame killers for a perk and bad tactics, just as it's not lame to shame a survivor for running all 4 crutch perks. Both people are abusing something that makes the game feel worse for the other side.
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@PerkyPerky said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1502244#Comment_1502244
All I read was more of everyone is rank 1 killer, but clearly survivor-biased. The point of this topic is it's stupid to shame NOED and dictate how killers play when you do whatever you want and use 4x crutch perks.
You didn't regard any of my points explaining why NOED is something that only weak players use. And I don't use UB, BT, or DS, despite those all carrying the expectation that you will be hooked, because even if you're winning you definitely should be. Anyway, my point was regarding NOED relying on you to be bad, and you didn't respond to that at all. Care to try again?
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Rank 1 killer and survivor, NOED isn't even a consideration in my build because having it in your build means you're accepting that the survivors are probably going to do all five gens against you. It is literally a crutch because you know you're going to lose, but you want to have a chance at a couple kills at the end that you did nothing to earn. Doing bones is very difficult for solo survivors, and shouldn't be expected unless there's a QOL balance to help ensure they know when all totems are done. DS, BT, UB are definitely crappy when used together, but they are all very avoidable. Run devour hope, it counters all three. You'll be out of TR range to get the stack. And if you say 'But it's a hex, I don't want to use that!' then you don't actually want survivors to look for totems if there's no other hex. You just want to abuse the fact that they don't.
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I think of DS as dead hard if I cant avoid it without wasting time. Though, I play nurse, so it basically just means two more blinks. I dont use DS when I play survivor, but I dont get very annoyed by it as killer. I havent played many super sweaty 4man swfs, likely.
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There should not be a perk whose existence slows down every game. I like the idea behind 'Do bones', but if that's the drawback then there needs to be more of an incentive to do it even when the perk isnt there.
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@hillbillyclaudmain69 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1472081#Comment_1472081
Well its still 50 50. Most people aren't sentient enough to do that.
'Most people' should not be included when talking about optimal play XD Optimal play at pallets and windows is what defines the strength of a killer in chase, essentially. Optimal play for phead is omnipotent.
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@hillbillyclaudmain69 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1472071#Comment_1472071
Fake the window. It works more than you think. Also you can loop normally against him.
No it doesn't. I play pyamid head. If someone fakes, I just hit them. If they jump, you have time to react to hit them once they do.
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@hillbillyclaudmain69 said:
Pyramid boi and quickscope boi have counterplay. Its called having good reaction times. Spirit I do agree with tho.
A good pyramidhead doesn't give you reaction. They don't use their ability randomly, they use it at pallets or windows to guarantee a hit. Stick sword in ground: They jump? Ability hits them while animationlocked. They don't jump? Remove sword and hit. I play a lot of killer, and this is the strategy I use. There's no counterplay to it other than prethrow pallets, but then it's just a bloodlust chase against an m1 killer. And if he's too close when you prethrow, you get hit in that animation. Meaning you can't leave that pallet and go anywhere else, because he'll be too close for any windows or pallets, then.
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@28_stabs said:
No, lets just permanently ban everyone. They already bought the game and cant refund it back anyway. :^)
Not sure what your point is since no one suggested bans, but if you have an issue with people who DC being matched together, why?
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While some see pipping as irrelevant, I feel it's one of the things I like about the results screen. Zeroing doesnt feel bad because meh, no change, but dropping from rank 1 because of a DC parade feels extremely bad.