RainbowSuperLoki
RainbowSuperLoki
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@ShinobuSK said:
Devour hope is one of the very few perks that is completely fine as it is imo
I agree that it's balanced in the right way, but it's very unreliable. Which wouldn't be a problem if we had other options for its effects, and we do, kinda. Make your Choice is the most obvious alternative for Exposed, and it's fine honestly, but there is no alternative for the mori and it's what I really want. Rancor does exist, but it's finnicky and unreliable and requires you to lose the game for you to have a CHANCE to use it. I want a better replacement that may not be competitively broken, but that still lets you do the cool mori animation. That's really all I want. If it can kill after one hook then that's even better but I'd be very happy with finisher mori perk really.
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I also want Devour Hope to stop being a totem, but it would need a massive nerf for that.
What I want most out of Devour is the mori.
I could see a Devour Hope that's not a Hex, but that also doesn't grant you instadown, instead granting speed boost.
2 tokens : same old same old
3 tokens : instead of giving Exposed, this gives you a 5% haste boost. (or lower if 5% is too busted)
5 tokens : You are granted the ability to kill Survivors that have progressed one Hook Stage (same as old memento mori).
I would use that. If you want to nerf it further, make it act like an Ebony mori instead : only after two stages. That way it would be far from broken and still fall behind most meta perks such as Corrupt and Ruin, because it kicks in pretty late in the game and all it REALLY does is give you speed and potentially avoid some saves.
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As of today this is still happening, if I get pallet slammed during a lag spike I am completely stuck for the rest of the game. PLEASE FIX.
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@IlliterateGenocide said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/249288/make-trickster-115
nah i played about 10 games with him , got adept (thank god) but his buffs had made him def easier to play, and i dont think he actually needs the extra movement speed
I played a lot more than 10 games with him and I can tell ya that his power is unreliable : while it is strong in a few cases or against survivors who do not actively try to shield their hitbox from it, as soon as you get to a certain level (rank 5 or so) survs start hugging walls all the time and it takes more than 10 seconds to get 3 knives in. For maps that are filled with walls like the Game or Lery's this can quickly become a nightmare. Most looping locations with high walls are also nigh impossible for Ji-Woon to deal with.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/249288/make-trickster-115
I played trickster and he honstly feel so slow,he cant put any map pressure and his knives are so easy to miss,he's such an unreliable killer with an awful power.
We agree on that. But 115% would make him at least marginally better because he AT LEAST wouldn't be worse than a regular killer. In his current state he has a power that is not going to be easy to fix, is objectively weaker than most 115% killers' powers and even has worse speed. Pretty much not a lot going for him. He needs the extra speed and base terror radius I believe.
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I would actually stand behind a ranged killer that may not have the Huntress' or Deathslinger dangerousness at range, but at least has regular speed to make up for it. As he currently is he is objectively the worst ranged killer by far, and still gets as much of a speed penalty as the other two. His power is less rewarding than literally all the other killers with 110%. Legion used to be 110% and it similarly wasn't fair.
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As I said there is no way to make his power better in the situations where it sucks without making it broken in the situations it doesn't (in the open).
I just want him as 115% because that would also make his power better since he wouldn't be slowed down as much when throwing knives, which is actually a huge deal as maps with plenty walls make Trickster basically useless. Unlike Huntress he requires too much time to get a hit with his power in maps with so many walls.
Plus it's just unfair that in his current state, with one of the weaker powers out there (115% M1 isn't even that much worse than his current power, except for a few situations), he gets 110% when killers like Rin get the same speed for a MUCH better power.
Furthermore 110% just feels bad to play.
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If you think killers should be nerfed you just need to get better at the game.
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Also it wouldn't hurt to be more respectful in your answer. You have the right to think that I'm wrong but you don't clearly say why... you argue that it's ridiculous for me to ask why someone would run Furtive Chase. You point out two things. A somewhat weird "randomizer" use with Rancor (it doesn't provide the killer with any true payoff), and you say Furtive Chase is better than M&A by third token.
However this statement sounds very inaccurate to me. Just because Furtive Chase reduces TR by more than 8 meters clearly doesn't make it better than M&A since M&A is active OUTSIDE chases, which is significantly better than during chases. While you are chasing a survivor, you generally don't care about other survivors since you already have one in front of you. If you do drop the chase with the survivor you're after, your TR gets back to normal. But while you're chasing someone you don't really get to sneak up on another survivor like M&A allows you to do. So, no, I still don't see the point. Besides M&A is active for the whole game, from the start of the game, whereas getting three tokens with Furtive Chase requires the game to be at least halfway through, meaning you get a lot less time to use its effect than you do with M&A. So, no, it doesn't get better than M&A, even after three tokens.
Besides, you have not adressed what the true use of reducing TR while in a chase is.
EDIT : also it's not just me who thinks FC sucks since Furtive Chase is rated as a D tier perk (the worst tier) by the community. -> https://dennisreep.nl/dbd/perk/60/
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@Desh said:
Not even going to bother reading the rest after your third paragraph/line. A lot of people use FC, myself included. I sometimes even use it as a meme with Rancor to do a Mori roulette. It's the one perk that wants you to focus on going for the Obsession unlike other Obsession perks and grants you a decreased terror radius that's even better than M&A by the third token. Your question also doesn't make sense since that could be applied to literally EVERYTHING. Iron Maiden? "What's the point" Monstrous Shrine? "What's the point"
This doesn't clarify why it is useful to reduce TR during a chase. The "change obsession" effect has a better alternative in Nemesis, which can actually transfer the obsession status from a dead survivor to one that's still alive. In other words, it never gets cancelled like Furtive Chase does. Also my question does make sense. I wouldn't ask what Ruin, or BBQ & Chili are for. However yes, I do want to ask why you would want to run Monstrous Shrine since it also is a very bad (and situational) perk.
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@Emeal said:
I run Furtive Chase. it's great perk, it's just ######### when I accidently kill Obsession. Stack it with M&A.
If they removed the removal when Obsession dies, but notified the survivor of what kind of obsession they are it would be better.
Problem is, I don't really see the point of stacking it with M&A. You do realize M&A and Furtive Chase work against each other, right? Furtive Chase reduces Terror Radius while in a chase. M&A increases terror radius while in a chase. They are antisynergic.
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It's a good idea, but sadly I don't think the devs will make it happen anytime soon, if ever.
We still can wait and hope that the specific perks we like get buffed. Over time devs have buffed/reworked a significant numbers of perks, the only true problem is that they keep adding some that are blatantly useless such as Forced Penance.
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I kinda second this, but also not really. I basically wish moris were nerfed, but at the same time, devs added more perks that allow to kill in the game. Even if they have to be balanced by other factors, such as for example, only being able to kill survivors who are on their last hook. That would not be broken and it would allow us to see the animation more often.
Currently we only have two perks that allow to kill (Devour Hope and Rancor), and both of them are a little too random in my opinion. I wish for perks that grant the ability to kill more consistently but also require two hooks prior to use. And also, while we're at it moris could be nerfed a bit, because they're pretty powerful but also kinda unfair.
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@Onyx_Blue said:
This perk has seen a massive boom in popularity. And because of this, it has shown how busted it is.
Put this perk on a player that knows pressure and you're in for a crap day. Since the time spent in that round isn't gonna be hunting for totems, it's gonna be spent getting rescues and doing gens. Then, all of a sudden, Devour is revealed and suddenty you're done for, since most likely the player will know that people are gonna be totem hunting now, because who risks a gen when a totem that allows you to be insta-eliminated is in play?
This perk is so so boring. It either needs to be deleted/reworked or outright nerfed. 36m grants a token or something like that. This perk is the worst thing to go against (since where are these players that "do bones"? - I never vs them nor get them as teammates.) I was once going through a phase of using Thrill Of The Hunt and not a single totem was done in almost 3/4 of my overall matches. It was a NOED bait to get people scared of the totems and doing them as priority, obviously, but no sod cleansed them. And why? Because in the majority of the matches, they were pressured so hard that they had to focus gens and rescues appropriately, no time for totem cleansing vs a killer that has you on the ropes. That is the most solid reason you'll get for why Devour Hope needs hard nerfing or reworking.
I don't think Devour Hope is a broken perk. Like any (good) Hex perk, it is strong but goes down fairly easily.
Does Devour Hope feel unfair? Yes it does. When it works. But we (killers) feel the exact same way when it gets cleansed right after the start of the game, and trust me it happens more often than you think.
What I do agree on however is that I wish the perk was fully about moris and not necessarily Exposed state. I wish it read something like this instead :
2 tokens : haste bonus thingey that no one truly cares about
3 tokens : something to replace the Exposed effect I guess, but minor enough that Survivors don't necessarily notice it (such as slight cooldown reduction or something)
4 tokens : Grants to ability to kill Survivors who have been hooked by your own hand.
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I think it is much too similar to Haunting Grounds. I'd rather have more perks that help PROTECT or CONCEAL the Hex Totems, rather than another trap totem which, from my experience, actually doesn't help defend the totem you care about very much.
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@Lazerboy88 said:
I can get behind a perk that is purely for a mori without any gain, maybe it allows you to mori last survivor but you gain extra bloodpoints for doing so? They have all these awesome mori animations! But I wish I didn’t have to use a offering or try my luck with DH to get them
@CLAUDETTEINABUSH said:
I agree. Nice idea.
Nothing else to say. No point to argue. You are just correct xd
Thank you both for your support, I appreciate it a lot ^v^
I feel the same about DH. I like the idea behind the perk, but I end up frustrated because all I am really hoping for with it is that kill power, and when it gets cleansed I feel like my other perks are just sitting there with zero fun value.
Rancor is better in my opinion but when I win a game, I never get to use it, and even though I'm very much fine with that second part, it only allows you to kill one Survivor, and you can't combine it with other kill perks because there aren't any yet!
Could be fun to have a few other perks to diversify the strategies you can use to get that finish treat. I don't necessarily expect them to be easy to use, but I just want more ways to do it ! I randomly noticed the other day that the two kill perks happen to belong to two female killers. Could be fun to have a new male killer that brings his own kill perk too, tied to his lore/character in the way it works. Hope we'll get that at some point !
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@ImmortalReaver said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1054048#Comment_1054048
I'm not even sure if it's the longest animation but I watched ghost race's and it was 14 seconds. If someone is downed next to a hook you can definitely pick them up and hook them within 5 seconds. So yes, like I said, it CAN be up to 3x as long.
Sorry for the very late answer, forgot to check up here the last few days.
I see your point, but the way you set the example does make it very relevant, because you take the worst of the Mori side and the best of the hook side. If I were to use the same process, I could tell you that lifting up and hooking a Survivor to a far hook at the near end of their wiggle bar, which isn't so rare actually, can last up to 15 seconds max, including everything and that's supposing you aren't getting bodyblocked or blinded by other Survivors. On the other hand, the Pig's kill animation is very quick and gets to the point, it lasts about 6 to 7 seconds. I know even in this situation, hooking doesn't take 3x times as long, but you can see that taking a favourable case for one way and a bad one for the other isn't a very accurate way to find out if, on average, killing is that much slower than hooking. Which I don't think it is. At worst, 4 or 5 seconds on average. I don't say it amounts to nothing, but it's not that big of a deal when you know you are not at risk of getting blinded or stunned on a pallet. By the way, in some locations, it is impossible to cover your face from flashlights while lifting up. Saying that just in case someone would bring it up.
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It would require too much work from the developers. I'd rather have them focus on more important things, or just give us more perks that allow to mori, because Memento Moris are kinda old now.
Furthermore, I don't understand what would be a map-specific kill animation. The Clown would pick up a katana in the Yamaoka Estate ?
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@Mastropiero said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1055735#Comment_1055735
Ok, but then that the ebony mori would have to be an offering that appears once per level
I don't see what that would change. This would not fundamentally affect the balance of the game
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@PrettyFaceKate said:
This already exists, it's called an ebony mori and it's (intentionally) OP, unless the killer is a total potato.
this.
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You are very much exaggerating the situation.
Nurse has been really good for ages and people still play the game.
Even when the game was horribly balanced and killers were like, extremely disadvantaged, you know how things were ? people still played the game.
A survivor base of MILLIONS OF PEOPLE will not just quit the game because one patch that is litterally a few days old made a killer better. I would not go as far as to say he's OP, he's simply much better than he was. Get over it. Killers also have a lot of things to complain about, and they're not going anywhere as far as I know.
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@Marcavecunc said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1051667#Comment_1051667
Oh right. Well in that case yes it takes longer than hooking for the sacrifice. But a mori is always fun and devour hope is fun to run for that. But to each their own, some people like it, some don't.
Also, what I would like to emphasize is that killing isn't always strictly inferior to hooking. The main example being that there is close to zero counterplay to it once the person is on the ground.
- The animation cannot be interrupted by fireworks or flashlights.
- Other survivors cannot bodyblock you to save the survivor.
- Even if the survivor is standing under a pallet, you don't have to fear they might be saved by someone else.
- Generally speaking, killing is a surefire way to get rid of a Survivor, and there aren't, to my knowledge, any ways to escape it other than getting back up and running.
Unless you know a way that I didn't think of, killing, though it does take a bit more time, leaves more or less no room for counterplay for the Survivors team.
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@SkeletalElite said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1045880#Comment_1045880
The 4 token effect isn't going to happen because the devs want to move away from bloodlusting, not towards it. Ideally bloodlust should be removed once the maps are more balanced.
Oh, really ? Well, honestly, it was mostly a side effect meant to make the perk a little more viable outside of the mori effect. The other effects are pretty much bonuses to make the package better, but I know I wouldn't run it for these.
Always been wanting a perk that improves lunges, though. Still hope it will happen someday, even though I would still want the mori perks well above a lunge perk.
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@ImmortalReaver said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1048912#Comment_1048912
Because the animation for a mori can be 2-3x as long as it would take to hook them. Time is not on your side as a killer, especially nowadays.
I see your point, but I think it's a stretch. I do not deny than killing does take some time, but saying it can last 3 times as long as your regular hooking is probably an exaggeration. I agree that time is a valuable resource, but as I stated a few times, I do not necessarily expect those mori perks to be competitively relevant. It's mostly for flair if anything :)
Of course, I'd even be happier if they were good, but the very "binary" power that is killing is kinda hard to design in a way that's both interesting for the killer competitively and balanced.
I don't say it's impossible, but my expectations aren't so high, because this would probably require a lot of balancing work from the perks, whereas my request is first and foremost to allow these animations to happen more easily and often in-game, cause they're fantastic and they're also a more enjoyable experience for both players, in my opinion. (from my experience, even Survivors don't mind getting killed if it's not from a Memento Mori).
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@Oicimau said:
Yes, i aways prefered DH instead of Ruin given the offensive aspect of it. As i used to say in my streaming: "let then do the first 2 or 3 gens, and them we will see what happens". (Evil laughs)
It's not that I don't like DH ; it's that I like its effect too much to tolerate the fear of losing it at any moment xD
DH has its own kind of fun but it tends to be unreliable due to its Hex nature, to balance its incredible power. I hope we'll get a less powerful but more reliable perk to kill one of these days, even if it's limited to one Survivor in the trial and has specific requirements.
Pretty much like Rancor is, actually, but I ideally want it to be slightly easier to pull off, and especially to be applicable even when you're not losing.
It doesn't really have to be that complex, either. I'd love a perk like DH with drastically reduced power, but what power it lacks it makes up for with better consistency and by ideally being a bit less situational than Rancor. If it's open for synergies, it's even better.
Though, to be fair, any perk that grants the kill ability through any means that isn't a Hex would be a yes in my book. Even if the requirements are not easy, I would definitely try and make it work if there is room for synergies with other perks, I'd happily dedicate 3 or even 4 of my perk slots to ensure I get to use it !
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@Oicimau said:
I second that. (And i like to say "i second that" hehe).
More Mori Perks will be sweet. The other day i got a Daily Ritual with killing, and by luck got the Devour Hope to fully work to do so. But also used the rancor, to raise the chances. Didnt have a memento.
But about DH, I think its perfect. Nobody can complain about being moried cause you deserved it as killer: a lot of hooks without camping. And the counterplay is easy: cleanse the totem. Once you see that "exposed" by "devour hope", stop whatever you doing and go immersely to find the totems. Thats how i counter it as survivor. And plus, im a totem cleanser a lot.
And about Rancor, its perfect inside the Spirits lore. First, if helps you locate survivors and avoid better the 5 gens done. If they are done, at least you obsession will die (cause its against him your rancor, so hes the one that matters to die!). The counterplay is to leave already the match, cause the obsession will know its a Rancor when sees the killers aura in gen repairing.
So, new mori perks, yes. But Rancor and DH as just well balanced.
Thanks for supporting my idea :D
I partly agree with your statements. Rancor is still a somewhat recent perk, whereas Devour Hope is now quite an old one. I think Rancor is more well-rounded than Devour Hope is. I like Rancor as it is, actually - but I think we need a perk that is more consistent than Devour Hope and a bit less situational than Rancor. Rancor's effect can actually be relevant for more than just flair because it can get you a cheap and easy kill. I don't necessarily want new perks to also allow cheap kills, even if those can be fun, having the option only as a finisher would already be plenty good for me. (plus Rancor does fit Spirit perfectly !)
The part where I disagree with Devour Hope being "perfect" is simply that I actually feel nervous when I run it, knowing it might get destroyed at any moment. The later it gets destroyed, the more frustated I am and it ends up stressing me out a lot even as I am killing someone, knowing it is potentially in danger :')
But in one sense, Devour Hope has always been about risk/reward so I suppose you could say it is perfect. I don't really want it to change, but I would be really happy with one (or two, let's get crazy) mori perks in the year to come.
Oh, and say, what do you think a balanced and original design for a mori perk could be like ? If you have any ideas, feel free to share !
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I just brainstormed a few ideas in order to give a few examples, which I believe are somewhat balanced.
No More Heroes : Whenever a survivor is unhooked, the aura of the savior is revealed to you for 2/3/4 seconds. (The perk is revealed to them the first time they unhook).
Survivors have a token count for this perk that can be seen when standing over them while they are in the Dying State. Each time they successfully unhook someone, they gain a token. Survivors are unaware of how many tokens they have.
Survivors who have 2 tokens or more are affected by the Oblivious status effect for 10/15/20 seconds.
The killer is granted the ability to kill Survivors who have 3 tokens or more for No More Heroes.
Treat of the Fog : Your hard work and diligent obedience entice the Entity to reward you for your effective ways. You're granted the ability to kill the last Survivor in the trial if you have sacrificed all others. Your enthusiasm gives you a 3%/4%/5% Haste status effect when these conditions are met.
Murderer's Urge : Your murderous ways in life carried over to your existence in the Fog. Your thirst for a kill grows more and more uncontrollable as you draw blood from your victims.
You gain a token with each successful basic attack.
4 tokens : Bloodlust levels build up 10/15/20% faster.
6 tokens : Your lunges last 5/10/15% longer.
8 tokens : Grants the ability to kill with your own hands Survivors who have reached the Struggle Phase on a hook.
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I see. Makes more sense that way.
I think Blood Warden is cool but it has the same problem as Rancor, it kinda requires you to lose the game to become effective in the first place, and it is not always easy to secure the effect.
I agree with the unhook part though. I had not seen the problem from that angle because usually at this point in game when I hook someone, they are dead which allows me to make full use of the time I'm given, but it's true that it's not always the case. I think you have a good idea, it could use a few adjustments to be properly good while balanced but it could very well happen !
If you have time, I made a post about the need of a greater variety of perks like Rancor that allow to mori with requirements, feel free to check it out if you also love a good mori that you work for ! :)
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@arcnkd said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1045632#Comment_1045632
Honestly the numbers were adjusted because I felt Survivor Mains would come in and be like "that would be way too long" if it was the 30/40/60 Seconds blocking that it is currently by hooking during EGC.
If I had it in the optimal suggestion - Same 30/40/60 but either made into a Totem or I do like the idea of it being a surprise if it was changed to just downing the Survivor and not hooking them. But thanks for the feedback!
I get what you mean.
I think we can get a middle ground. Something like 40 seconds max. sounds okay strong.
For the downing part, I get why you would like it better that way, but honestly, does it really make a big difference between downing and hooking ? I know hooking takes a little more time, but from my own experience, few survivors actually exit before you show up at the gates, so the effect usually gets to trigger before the survivors leave.
The other problem with your rework, though not as important, is that it does not necessarily block the two gates at the same time. That doesn't necessarily mean it is bad, but one of the perks of the original Blood Warden is that while it is active, no one can leave. And that's about it. They're literally stuck in the realm for 60 seconds, which I think was part of why the original perk is a fun and nasty surprise.
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The problem, good sir, is that your version of the perk actually makes it worse than it already is.
Blood Warden isn't so bad as it is right now. I don't really think it needs change.
Your idea with the Dull Totems makes it more similar to NOED and is quite a good idea, but the problem is that you've made the effect significantly worse.
Blocking the Exit for 20 seconds, is, sadly, too inconsequential. Even though it is harder to pull off, blocking the exits for 60 seconds is much more powerful and actually gives you time to get a second hook.
The nasty part is also the surprise. If you open the gates and you see they close right as the exit is visible, there is no surprise element anymore.
I like the idea to exploit Dull Totems, but I think you've made Blood Warden almost unusable due to the way this rework's effect is tremendously weaker in length than the original one.
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@Animator said:
I would have Devour Hope as a passive perk, but would have raised the stakes. For a noed, 4(or 5) tokens would be needed, and for a memento, 6 tokens, for example. A completely balanced change.
I considered the exact same idea in the past, but I feel like, even if the perk does seem like it will not be broken due to the high requirements, it would still be too strong to gain permanent Exposed status on all survivors.
I would be happy, however, to get a perk that is somewhat similar to Devour Hope but only with the mori part. Basically, I'm okay with having a high requirement, and also with being able to kill only survivors who were hooked twice already ; I'm willing to work and sacrifice other perk slots to synergize just for this ! but I wish we had more ways to earn the ability to kill other than the original DH, which is definitely too random and unreliable, and also other than Rancor requires you to lose to make use of it. I don't think Rancor should be changed, but I think we should have a greater variety of perks that allow you to kill with requirements.
^ Actually, the sentence above actually pretty much sums up accurately what I wish we had.
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@Animator said:
Remove the HUD completely during the animation so that can take beautiful screenshots.
I second that. It is a simple idea and, yet, mori are beautiful animations. They're probably one of the things I like most about playing killer which is also why I think we need more perks like Rancor (made a post about it if you support the idea).
You have my support, +1 😄🗡️
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Thanks for supporting the idea.
Honestly I don't really expect the team to make a perk that just allows you to consistently finish everyone with a kill animation, but if there were a few other perks that grant the ability even through specific requirements, I would try different builds and synergies to make it work consistently.
You can synergize with Rancor pretty easily actually, but the problem is that Rancor really requires you to be at disadvantage in the game to ever be able to use its effect. I think it's not really fun. And also, unlike hooking, kill animations usually fit their character's lore perfectly - which is always nice. I love honouring the Yamaoka name by ripping off the filthy tongues that badmouthed it >:}
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I don't think it has what it takes, sorry. No one would run it.
Hiding scratch marks and blood pools sounds strong, but you will de facto never survive over 2 mins in a chase without getting hit a single time. Or the killer is very bad, in which case - the effect becomes irrelevant becomes the game is already hugely in the survivor team's favour at this point.
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Even as little as a perk that allows you to kill the last survivor in the game, would actually make ZERO gameplay difference, would be probably very easy to code, and I would definitely run it 90% of the time, just for fun. Cause you know... you want a proper finish !
Remember what the yellow memento mori says ?
"You worked well, the last one is yours."
I think that could pretty much work as an all-killer perk. "Reward of the Fog" or something. It's just an example really, though. I don't care if the requirements are more complicated than that, I just want a way to make it work that doesn't rely too much on randomness... even if it becomes a subpar perk as a result.
Anyway, what do you guys think ? 😀