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Jeido_Tengoku

Jeido_Tengoku

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Jeido_Tengoku
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  • I totally agree! I would really appreciate that feature. I also thought that it already works and bought equipment but I was disappointed. Is there any way to get the attention of the devs? I’m pretty sure that they will make it work

    in Keyboard and mouse support for console Comment by Jeido_Tengoku

  • Hi @Jellocubes1738 ,

    thanks a lot for your arguments. Its fun to discuss about it in a proper way. I really appreciate it. :)

    I dont think that DH is a anti-tunnel perk. If I made it sound so, Im sorry. I was just trying to explain the differences between the mentioned perks and DH. Let me response to your prepared points:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3812437#Comment_3812437

    P1 - Dead Hard "Cancelling a Legit Hit" In your words here doesn't mean it has a stronger effect when activated than reliable distance from Sprint Burst & Lithe because the real strength of the perk comes from the movement speed increase that is base kit on all survivors when they get hit - as such I consider it to be at least comparable to a distance perk.

    I honestly disagree that the strength of DH is the movement speed. In that case, I think the other movement speed perks a more effective and easier to use. I still think its a lot power to "cancel" a hit, get a boost, make the killer slower cause of success hit and use it in strategic ways or cancel outplays by using a key. I think these are the strenghts. BUT dont get me wrong. DH is a hard perk to use and kinda niche. Its very risky, but it gives a lot value imo.

    P2 - As i understand the second line of your post, you're pointing out that most exhaustion perks have 1 "passive condition" and Dead Hard is unique in that it has both the "passive" condition of running and the "active" condition of pressing the ability button at the right time and that it should be hard to use because it provides more value than SB and other perks like it.

    The passive condition is something what you will get passivly. Lith for example forces you to use a window or pallet otherwise you dont get your boost. Thats what I tried to pointing out.

    Yeah, DH has the passiv one that you have to be hooked once, but that will happen anyway. If not, then well you played damn good, but it would be harsh to punish the killer further with a second chance perk.

    I don't believe Dead Hard on its own provides more value than Sprint Burst or Lithe to the degree you need it to be single use per hook state while also requiring you to be hooked to use. The line this was in response to is mainly about the ability to use Sprint Burst and Lithe proactively - meaning in advance - before a survivor finds themselves in a position of risk while having the added perk of being able to utilize perk synergy in Vigil/Fixated/Urban Evasion to get back their exhaustion faster

     while 

    in chase. This functionality being something Dead Hard in its current state 

    cannot

     make use of. I think this limits build potential for the players that use this perk especially for those people that really enjoy the synergy perks aforementioned and have used these synergies before the Dead Hard changes.

    I agree regarding the perk synergy you mentioned. Nothing to argument in that matter. About "more value than SB or Lithe" - yeah I think I get your point. You cant use it multiple times (well at least a limited time of usage) and its a lot more difficult to get value. Nevertheless, if you manage to get hit by using DH, it will give you more value than SB and Lithe imo.

    I'm going to create a situation for you, you're working on the last generator of the match injured when you realize the killer is coming your way with a Pop Goes the Weasel and the gen is nearly done but will not be completed without a hit. Let's say you brought Off the record and are still within the active window of activation, well now you've done a conspicuous action having been on the gen and you will not get endurance. With Dead Hard it will require a bait or in other words the killer to blunder but you have the opportunity to take an endurance hit and complete the gen where SB, Lithe or OTR would not have granted you that opportunity. Hence, because it requires the killer to mess up and precise timing/prediction from the survivor i don't consider it to be an Anti-tunnel perk as much as they have tried to repurpose it into one.

    Sorry, Im not sure what you try to tell right now. Is it an example to proof thats not a anti-tunnel perk? Then yeah, I agree and didnt thought at it as anti-tunnel perk. Sorry if I pictured it the wrong way.

    Maybe you could give me a hand, so that I get it right, sorry :)

    People underestimate the versatility in being able to scale distances and use distance perks reactively or proactively, for utility, defensively and offensively. There are many uses for Sprint Burst and Lithe that aren't just distance in a pinch and it is by no means a 

    little

     bit of extra distance it is a sizeable amount that makes a huge difference if you use it at key times for the right purposes, in the right ways.

    I completely agree! I would never call these perks worthless or worse than DH. In fact, I think those are better, cause of easier and multiple uses for different reasons. They are strong in different ways as DH has its own strength in his unique niche.

    Dead Hard can only be used if:

    the killer is in range to hit you

    you actually get hit

    you time the Dead Hard accurately in prediction

    and you make use of the distance in a meaningful way knowing that you get it off

    "you actually get hi" - That is one I think someone could do a buff in that matter to make it more usable for beginners. See:

    DH stays the same except:

    • If you used dead hard, but you didnt get hit, it wont be deactivated (but still exhausted)
    • If you use dead hard and tanked a hit successfully, it will be deactivated

    and can only be used for: body blocking, tanking a hit and some additional pressure on the killer in chase if the killer knows you have it which while i admit is extremely strong, It doesn't justify requiring a hook to use, it punishes survivors for playing well for example if you wanted to block for your vulnerable teammate endgame but you were never hooked.

    Hm… thats what Im not sure of. Im talking about "it punishes survivors for playing well…"

    There are a lot perks on both sides where you dont get value if you played well. Like NWO, NOED or Blood Warden on killer site. Like DS, DH or Hope on survivor side.

    There are perks, where you only get value in specific conditions and DH is one of them.

    I personally dont like things like, blocking a hit, cause you can, due of a perk. My reason for that is: Its a damn scary killer. Like hell I could take a slash with of a blade like that. It steals the fright, but well. Its just my opinion and I also know its part of strategy and sometimes required.

    I play both sides kinda 50/50. I get the point, that you would like to get value of DH, though you wasnt hooked once and cant tank a hit, but at the same time, I feel bad for the killer, who might be destroyed by you, cause you were better, but maybe not your mates, still the killer will not get a kill cause of DH then.

    I think its generally kinda difficult to make it that way to satisfy everyone, but I would take the call and say: DH is not a perk to use it that way. There are other, better perks for it. :)

    Im looking forward to your response!

    in Dead Hard Should Be Refreshable Like Other Exhaustion Perks. Comment by Jeido_Tengoku

  • @ppmd ,

    it feels like you didn't read the comments here at all. There are valid arguments to explain the differences in impact. You just state that's not true and that's it.

    It wasn't "interactive" it was dumb to win potentially further 1-2 minutes just by clicking one key. And "waiting until surv maybe uses dh or not" also isn't interactive. You could see but more precise arguments above your post.

    I don't know what you are trying to do if you don't argument properly.

    in Dead Hard Should Be Refreshable Like Other Exhaustion Perks. Comment by Jeido_Tengoku

  • Hi @SoGo,

    I think your ideas are awesome and I think its important that our community has people like you who has some decent ideas, but not balance breaking ones. I would like to comment some parts of your ideas in the following:

    The worst part of Trapper is his setup, which requres you to go out of your way to collect and set every single trap.

    • The first thing I'd change is his 

    trap count

    . During 2v8, 

    he could hold 4 traps at the same time

     and it was great, so, why not put that into the base game? The amount of traps in the enviroment would not change, though. There would still be 8, giving you 

    12 traps in total

    .

    • Another part of his kit that's annoying is collecting traps, which are often on the opposite side of the map. 

    My idea is that he could be able to highlight up to 4 traps, which he could then destroy remotely. After that, he could simply pick them up from a locker

    , just like Huntress does.

    Honestly, that are really valid statements and I couldnt agree more. I would really like to play him a lot more but… well he is just frustrating to play with. What I thought after reading your points was a combination of your ideas.

    I agree that the trapper should be able to hold at least 4 traps. I also agree, that the traps should be removeable remotely. I think it would a general thing to get the traps from the lockers. So also at the beginning. So that there arent any traps in the beginning, you start with 4 and get more from lockers. So like that:

    • Killer starts with 4 traps (your idea)
    • Killer can remove traps remotely and then they are in lockers (your idea)
    • At the beginning, there are not traps on the map (my additional idea) that way, the surv doesnt know immediatly that a trapper is there
    • Killer gets traps from locker (your idea)

    One of the most frustrating things about Trapper, is when a survivor steps into a random trap far away, and escapes with no consequenses before you even get close. It's even worse if they're injured, since then the trap does even less to them.

    • First change I'd do is make it so 

    survivors which get out of a trap

     (by themselfs or with help) 

    get Deep Wounded, as well as being revealed with Killer Instinct for a few seconds after escaping.

    • Next, the speed boost Trapper gets after setting a trap barely does anything. It would be much more useful if it 

    triggered while someone is caught in a trap

    , and lingered for a bit after.

    Your idea with deep wound and killer instinct is awesome. Its by anyway not broken, but a nice benefit compared to now.

    About the speedboost Im not sure. I would let it be like that, but maybe increase the time of your haste, so that you have more value and dont lose to much time for placing traps. BUT its important to balance it with care. It could be broken if you do it the wrong way I think. To be more precise:

    General info of trapper:

    • needs 2.5 seconds to place a trap (without addons)
    • get 5% haste for 5 seconds after setting a trap (yellow addon)
    • trapper has 4.6m/s speed

    Now a bit of math:

    If trapper sets a trap he will lose 2.5 seconds of moving which is:

    2.5*4.6 = 11.5m at most.

    The addon gives 5 seconds a haste of 5% after setting a trap. That would be:

    additional haste bonus: 4.6*0.05 = 0.23m/s so:

    1.15m at max what distance you could get additionally. BUT we lose some distance for setting:

    1.15 - 11.5 = 10.35m

    So, thouth we have that addon, during chase, the trapper loses a lot of distance. With the addon its better than nothing (right?), but it shows how less it will help, especially if you consider that the surv will just leave the loop and you got kinda nothing.

    A surv has a speed of 4m/s. So if we consider the previous math it would mean the following after setting a trap during chase, what the addon is for:

    without addon:

    • 4m (surv) - 4.6m (trapper) = 0.6m/s → gets trapper closer
    • 4m*2.5 = 10m → distance created during setting trap
    • 10m/0.6m = 16.67 seconds → trapper will need that time just to get to the same distance than before!

    with addon:

    • 4m (surv) - 5.75m (trapper) = 1.57m/s → gets trapper closer
    • 4m*2.5 = 10m → distance created during setting trap
    • 10m/1.57m = 6.37 seconds → trapper will need that time just to get to the same distance than before! → but duration is only 5 seconds! sooooo:
    • 1.57m * 5= 7.85m
    • 10m-7.75m= 2.25m
    • 2.25m/0.6m = 3.75s
    • complete time necessary to catchup: 3.75s+5s = 8.75 seconds

    Based on these calculations, the addon helps significantly with his current power. We all now how precious these seconds are!

    It also shows, that there isnt much room to make sure that its not broken by increasing the time. If we would e. g. get a negative value in the way like -2 seconds to get to the distance before setting, then its broken, but we could get closer to zero by increasing the time just a bit:

    • Duration 6 seconds: 1.57m*6 = 9.42m
    • Duration 6.5 seconds: 1.57m*6.5=10.21m
    • Duration 7 seconds: 1.57m*7= 11m

    So, 7 seconds would be to long, cause you could set a trap and would even be closer to your target than without setting it, even if we would consider the time to pick up a trap its way to abuseable. I think 6.5 seconds could be good, BUT we also have to make sure to consider addons which decrease the time by setting a trap. There is a brown one which gives 30% for setting a trap. That would be 0.75 seconds faster!

    If we let the brown addon as it is, the duration of haste shouldnt be more than 6 seconds to prevent balance breaking during chase. If the addon is removed, it could be increased to 6.5 seconds. I think that would be fine.

    You suggested, that the haste should come if someone is caught, but that wouldnt benefit the trapper most of the time, so I disagree in that matter. You should design addons were you get benefits more reliable.

    About the duration of being caugt… it think it would be good that the surv have to be caught for at least the duration it would take to interact with the trapstations of the pig. Anything else will never help the trapper, due of his missing map pressure.

    First, 

    make the traps hitbox bigger

    . It's painful to watch a survivor use your own trap against you because the hitbox is too small.

    I think that would be difficult to balance, cause of some indoor maps. I would prefer that the trapper couldnt be caught by default… I think.

    We need darker maps with more fog and more grass. I don't think I have to explain this one. Play one round on Haddonfield or Eyrie and you'll see what I mean.

    I also dont think that it would help pretty much. Be aware that you also would have problems to notice survivors!

    What I would suggest, that the traps adapt the colour based on the environment. So without addons, its hard to see, but you can still notice it. With an addon it should be very, very hard to notice, but the addon should have a high rarity.

    I hope I didnt went to far here xD

    in Trapper needs buffs Comment by Jeido_Tengoku

  • Hi,

    I dont play him and didnt get to play against him often. What Im curious about is your point about his clones. That is just a secondary, passive effect right? Isnt his main power the, I call it: canonball? I dont know him that well, just asking.

    in Unknowns Addon Nerfs Need To Be Reverted Comment by Jeido_Tengoku

  • Main Point

    All other popular exhaustions including Sprint Burst, Lithe, Balanced landing, Smash Hit, Background Player, Overcome & Head On don't get deactivated after you use them and don't require you to get hooked to use. Why should Dead Hard?

    The main difference between DH and your mentioned perks is, that DH kinda cancels a legit hit. The other ones just buy some distance which is a huuuuuge different impact.

    Sprint Burst, Balanced landing and Lithe can be used proactively and used multiple times in a match without sacrificing hook states while benefitting from perks like Vigil, Fixated/Self Aware and Blood Rush to help to restore and just straight up renew them for an additional use but Dead Hard doesn't benefit from any of these.

    You have special condition how to activate these perk, like starting to run and it works immediately or vault a window or fall from a highground. DH has passive conditions, what you consider bad, but the active condition is only pressing a key at the right time. Ofc its more difficult to use in get your canceled hit value, but its also a huge more value impact then just getting a bit mor distance on some more difficult prepared conditions.

    Exhaustions like Sprint Burst, Balanced Landing and Lithe give you distance without having to interact with the killer but Dead Hard requires you to bait a killer while in close proximity for the most part to get distance, this allows survivors to use movement exhaustions to travel to different places of a map faster or to an objective as well. 

    That kind of view is kinda problematic. You shall NOT LURE the killer. Thats not what the perk is for. Its kinda like a second chance perk if you really need it and not if you try to produce a need. That point of view is another problem in our community. I see a lot of mates blaming the killer if they tunnel them right after they tanked a hit with the basekit bt or of the record. Like, yeah lets waste the time of the killer proactively, though these things were meant to prevent tunneling.

    The other exhaustion perks have another goal. Get quick from a to b. Get more distance in need. Its not compareable.

    There are exhaustions similar to Dead hard that don't give distance without requiring killer interaction like Overcome, Smash Hit , Head On and to an extent Background player but they are all refreshable. I don't see why Dead Hard has to be on a token-like system where you only get to use it if you get hooked and you can't use it again even if you manage to escape from the killer unlike other exhaustions.

    Sorry, I will repeat some things, cause its also repeated some times in your post.

    Overcome: I dont really get you. Its also a distance perk, but after a hit. So you get value from your hit and the killer will lose quite a bit of time, but the killer STILL gets a hit. Its not cancelled. He just has to decide whether to hunt you longer or change the target.

    Smash Hit: Smash Hit is ALSO a distance perk! In Addition, you even have to stun the killer with a pallet, what is a damn whole lot more difficult than just pressing a key, cause killers respect pallets pretty often. There are lithe and sprint burst a lot better to use and you get a similar effect. So yeah… also distance, no cancelling and activiation way more difficult

    Head On: I give you a point, its not a distance perk, but also has a whole other meaning. It doesnt cancel a hit. Its not for distance. Its just to stun the killer for a niche moment like, protect a mate during chase. Also the condition its not really compareable. You have to use a locker, where you have to be some seconds. Even while you are chased, its pretty useless, cause the killer has to be kinda bad to lose you long enough. Also, even if you stun him that way, you wouldnt even get half of distance after stunning the killer as if you would get with DH. DH cancels a hit AND gives you distance.

    Exhaustions that increase movement speed are effective even while exposed while Dead Hard cannot be used when healthy

    Yeah thats true. On the other side, if you are already injured, you will still be able to survive. You will still only get deep wound.

    users of Sprint Burst, Lithe & Balanced Landing always benefit from being healed even if they are under threat of an instant down because they would be going down in 1 hit healed or not, exposed isn't always a constant threat and most times runs out or has conditions attached to it and being healed makes them naturally stealthier than an injured survivor.

    Thats not a strength of these perks, but the basic game mechanic. Its not a strength, so please dont try to put it that way.

    Dead Hard users have to decide whether they want to be healed or stay injured because if they stay injured they are more likely to be found through their pools of blood or grunts of pain, they don't have a health state to burn through regardless of if they mess up (e.g whiff the DH) if there's no instant down in play and if there's a killer that has a way of inflicting deep wound they're better off staying healthy (if there's no instant down in play) because if they do get hit they're in deep wound so they can't use Dead Hard, and if they don't the killer has the advantage of there being only one health state to down if they mess up.

    You are right, you have to decide whether you stay injured or not in some moments, but honestly, thats not a contra, but a benefit. With DH you are able to decide. Killer has insta-down? No, problem I stay injured and could tank a hit. The killer doesnt? Better, I am healed and could tank 2 hits.

    I read your post multiple times and I think you have to much a view as a survivor, but not as killer. I play both sides and I will recommend it to everyone. And please, not only like 10% killer and 90% surv, but like 50/50. Otherwise you will NEVER get a good picture of the true current balance.

    What you want is a perk with a huge potential impact, but without losing some benefits. Of course, DH isnt good for beginners. I also am pretty bad in using it, BUT if I will give it my all to master that perk. God it will be very, very strong and fine as it is. If you want to balance a game, you have to consider weak players, BUT also very strong ones. It cant be, that there is a perk that possibly beats a killer alone, just caused by the strength of one player.

    Its the same as nurse. A beginner will have a harder time with nurse than with freddy, but if one masters nurse or even be mid with her, she is busted and one of the worst things in dbd.

    A hit for a killer could take a lot of time if you hunt a decent survivor. Imagine what it would take if that survivor could tank an addition hit multiple times? Thats what happend in the past.

    So, no! DH should have the same conditions as it has now. Its not in the least compareable to other exhausting perks.

    The only thing what I could imagine to make it more beginner friendly is the following:

    DH stays the same except:

    • If you used dead hard, but you didnt get hit, it wont be deactivated (but still exhausted)
    • If you use dead hard and tanked a hit successfully, it will be deactivated

    Strong players wont have "much", but still quite a bit a buff of that perk. Beginners will get a huge buff at least.

    Thats a quick idea, but has to be troubleshooted a lot. Its not something you should just do, but consider the consequenses.

    BR

    in Dead Hard Should Be Refreshable Like Other Exhaustion Perks. Comment by Jeido_Tengoku

  • @BritneyMitch said:

    That awkward moment when most streamers/comp/experienced players got vecna in S or A tier XD

    I never got the estimation of a stranger to put vecna S tier. That’s absolut bull ######### to see him in on the same stage as nurse. If these streamers really think that about him, they can’t be very experienced or good

    in Vecna is extremely weak and poorly designed Comment by Jeido_Tengoku

  • Hi all,

    my first time to write something down here.

    I played with Vecna and against him a lot. I really really love it on both sides, because there are some unique features like magic and those chests. In fact, its my favorite DLC.

    First things first, I would put Vecna in A-Tier. He is pretty strong right now, BUT that could change easily.

    What can Vecna do?

    Fly

    This skill is very decent. It allows you to short a big distance to a surv in a very short time and also allows you to control the map a lot better than e. g. a pig. He also has collision at the end of the skill, which can be used in some nice ways, but also allows counters.

    Counter as Surv: Vecna can turn very badly while flying, so it can help to run towards him, if he is already close, to get distance again. You can also camp pallets or windows to avoid a hit. Try to love windows more than pallets. They are way stronger than you think.

    Something like crows (just worse)

    That ability looks week at the first look, but it has some good values. I dont talking about a DIRECT hit, which would one assume to happen with that skill. Its more a sure hit, if the surv has to decide to take m1 or to vault a window or a pallet or go upstairs. That are pretty niche situations right? BUT there are side effects of that skill. Survs usually have to crouch to dodge it safely, but if they dodge they will slow significally which could lead you to a m1 hit. So I really dont think its useless, you just have to use it the right way in the right time

    Counter as Surv: like all now, crouch in the right time. avoid, stairs or something like that. Try to predict the LINES of the skulls to dodge without crouching. Learn and play against it as often as possible to predict better. Its not that difficult to counter.

    Detection Bubble

    Its a decent detection skill. Not much to say. I like it and I will not call it useless, but I think thats his weakest skill.

    Counter as Surv: Nothing to say about it right now.

    God Hand to disable one pallet

    Now we have his most powerful skill. The hand. With that he can easily counter pallets, at least for now. Its the main chase skill and also the most dangerous skill TO CHANGE.

    Some things which worked pretty well on my side. Drop a pallet beforehand and force him not to block, but to reset the pallet. Predict the right moment to drop the pallet immediately after it was resetted. That workd pretty well so far. Also learn to play more with windows. These are very powerful assets in general. Especially for Vecna and Bubba.

    Do I think that Vecna does a nerf? To be honest, I dont know yet. I think he is strong but not broken I guess. BUT I think its very dumb to say he is to weak or way to strong right now and need a nerf. Just take your time and LEARN. LEARN Vecna better as killer and as surv. Then you will find weaknesses. I think, you only can decide about his real strength after like a month or two playing against and with him.

    Also, if they nerf the hand to unrisky Im pretty sure that Vecna will easily fall from probably A-tier to B or even C tier. Especially in high MMR. If his hands get a nerf, I think that could kill the killer completely.

    Im on work so I tried to hold it short, I will check your opinions and will reply later. :)

    in Vecna is extremely weak and poorly designed Comment by Jeido_Tengoku
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