Drag0n100
Drag0n100
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@Devil_hit11 said:
clap clap. your finally understanding what i was talking about when i said that double stacking turrets and using singular turrets to hold-w makes killer unfun to play. they fixed that from ptb to live by changing movement speed from 1.2 ->2.0 so you do not lose as much distance but it has been reverted due survivors dislike of the killer.
you just have to accept unfun games as killer if the survivor uses turrets well.
Yeah unfortunately that's exactly the case. This is how it is sometimes in DBD, where counterplay is treated as something that should "shut down" the opponent entirely, instead of simply countering their play. So with such an easy counterplay to Xeno's power, it does sometimes feel like you have no power and no fun lol.
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@Halloulle said:
Funny, I have the exact opposite experience: if you don't prerun like crazy if a turret is placed right in front of a tunnel it's a more or less free first hit / a greatly reduced chase time until first hit (M2 hit since Xeno takes the moment to break it).
That being said, I am all for your two suggestions. The first I can subscribe to as is, for the second one I think the tunnel spawns have to be adjusted as well though. Cause if survivors should never feel safe around a tunnel and will always be surprised by Xeno emerging from a tunnel that translates to never being safe on any gen and working on a gen means a free it for Xeno. So there would have to be a minimum distance between tunnels and gens. (And tbh that would probably further incentivise more creativity with turret placement - kind alike reverse Trapper ^^)
Huh interesting! And yeah I can agree with that, like I said I'm of the mind of the tunnels kinda being like the vents in Alien Isolation where you're kinda always on edge going beneath them/around them, so that's fair. A kinda "reverse trapper" situation is exactly what I think would be more fun! :D
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@Alice_pbg said:
3 turrets in the same place? Awesome. Leave them there.
Only 4 can ever be in the map at once. That just means you are free to roam anywhere else
A very valid point! My only thought on that is that they are typically in the most contested spot, so you are kind forced to travel there, or give up on the gen. Though once the gen pops, this is 100% true!
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2646807#Comment_2646807
Yeah unless there's a followup thread that has good organization filled with actual stats, a briefing on the methodology used, and far more than 2 really basic talking points that everyone else has already repeated...this post is basically worthless.
@RainehDaze said:
But can you share your statistical analysis?
I actually decided to make a small video about this, as it seems to have gotten some good reactions and feedback. In this video I will go over everything we did and show the results, so please allow some time for that :)
I'll link the video in the original post when it's finished.
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@themoobs1984 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2646835#Comment_2646835
Killer isn't a "small" role. It's as important as survivor. No killer players means no game.
That is very true! Which is exactly why I made this thread to begin with. Survivors cannot play the game without a Killer, and Killers would have nothing to kill if there were no Survivors. That is why the sides need proper balance and individualized card, instead of blanket sweeps that harm the games already fragile structure.
I honestly believe that there should be two teams, each bringing a Killer/Survivor perspective to the table to address all balance changes, because at the moment it just feels like they aren't properly weighing each side.
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@KerJuice said:
Another Killers have it bad, survivors have it good thread. It’s SURVIVE WITH FRIENDS that makes the game bad for both solo Que and killers. Get that ######### out of public matches and the game will be much better. Who populates the Top 1% of Survivors? SWF. Whenever your favorite streamer is getting their ass handed to them on stream, what do they usually say? SWF (and they’re right). Who used to destroy the “killer” (forgot the appropriate name) in Resident Evil Resistance? SWF. Who neglected objectives and kept killing Jason players every single match? SWF.
SWF is busted and doesn’t belong in Asymmetrical games, other than in the form of private matches. Please stop saying the game is survivor sided, when it’s SWF’s that causes your matches to be frustrating and not fun.
Your statement contradicts itself though. If most Survivors (including the top 1%) are SWF squads, then they are the "Survivor" problem.
As a SoloQ Survivor as well, I understand the hardship. I really do. But you can't cater to them and also keep SWF in check, that's simply not possible. The stronger you make Solo players, the stronger SWF become. Therefore, they should be lumped into a category simply to sort out the balance of the two sides. After that is done, then focus on the internal Survivor balance of Solo vs. SWF. At the moment, they're trying to solve everything at once, and my point simply is that it's clearly not working out.
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@SmarulKusia said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2646800#Comment_2646800
If you paid 'attention' in stat class, you wouldn't miss out of factors, such as killers having more variables which increases the likelihood of changes being direct at killers over survivors.
As a killer, you have killer perks, you have a power and you have killer SPECIFIC addons.
Killers in the game have the most influence in how a game swings because the killer role literally demands the player to play around the specific killer they are running against - so why would the 'passive' side be nerfed more?
No need to get hostile, just because I didn't address those points in my already way to long post doesn't mean they weren't considered. The problem is not that Killers get changed at a higher frequency or even that Killers are getting changed negatively at a higher frequency. It's an in-depth issue rooted in Development mentality that has favored one side over the other.
The other issue is that Survivors are currently in a position of power over the Killer side, so referring to them as the 'passive' side only contributes to the mentality that Survivors need to be nurtured over Killers, when I simply believe both sides should be treated equally.
I agree with your statement, Killers simply have more variables and are therefore at a higher likelihood of being changed, that's just the nature of statistics. But please attempt to understand the nature of the post as simply a conversation starter about a point of contention, and the actual problem it is trying to address before blindly attacking the point, it doesn't help peaceful discussion at all :)
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@RainehDaze said:
But can you share your statistical analysis?
Yes I can! I'll post the numbers we found tomorrow, I'm off to bed for tonight!
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@jerry46360 said:
You see what we have here, is a Failure, to communicate
100%. Maybe this is all simply because the Dev team used to inform us of their reasoning behind almost everything, and now that they barely do, we no longer have the luxury of that information. Maybe it's making us all a little paranoid lol
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@k0reant3a said:
I agree with this so much I play both sides at high level I can literally eat a bag of hunky dory’s and checking my phone I will still escape as survivor but playing killer it’s a complete different story, I can only do a few killer games a day it’s actually so draining at high level dealing with efficient survivors gen speed dead hard and the boons it’s crazy
This is excatly the feeling that lead to this analysis, so I'm glad other players feel it to and it's not just me lol
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@Beaburd said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2646793#Comment_2646793
Yeah sorry, my bad. I already edited that out because it did make it sound like you were frustrated when your post doesn't imply it. I hoped you wouldn't notice before I could edit, but oh well.
I found a funnier quote anyway to go with either way.
I do appreciate the laugh! And no worries friend!
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@AVoiceOfReason said:
This game is pretty close to balance-wise but I don't believe they're out to get killer mains. The problem with being a MAIN is that you don't experience both sides. You don't get to experience of being dominated by a killer who you can't do much against. The frustration of having to worry about others' giving a killer a free win. You should really play both sides and see how one affects the other. You might get some appreciation from it.
As I stated in the original post, I actually play Survivor and Killer 50/50. The observation we made stems from playing both sides actually, and feeling that Killer is way more punishing that Survivor.
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@MrsMaliciousX said:
Idk I really don't have a problem with boons, ive been trying to play more killer, but at the same time you win some you lose some. But the amount of camping and tunneling I get in survivor matches is UNREAL, not to mention this "hit validation" ya its a joke. I throw a pallet, killer breaks it then swings and I get downed, ya no thanks, but stuff like that doesn't happen when I play killer.
Every side is gonna have problems no matter what, no one is ever going to be happy. I guess just take the game with a grain of salt, I JUST got back from a 6 month break. It was refreshing to play something else, and I have actually been SORTA having a fun time again, this isn't a game you can just play every single day.
You gotta take breaks, I see where you're coming from tho, But survivors did get nerfed to the ground the past 2 years. So Im not sure what they are trying to do.
Of course, and my claim is not that Survivors never get nerfed or that they never get Dedicated or screwed over by the game or Devs, it just happens to Killers at a much higher frequency according to what we found!
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Oh I'm in no way "heated" or "angry" this was just an analysis based on an observation me and some friends made. But hey, I'll still definitely play some Civ!
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@nfochairman said:
First off....i am aware no one cares
They'll just say i was not good enough even though i was a red rank killer. Killer after midnight is a horrendous experience. The trolls are "expletive" people. I mean, i'm pretty damn good at this game. And it zaps the fun out it in a millisecond.
again...i am aware no one cares
But what if someone is just trying this game. What if they're a really cool person that just wants to check it out. There's no chance they turn it on again. It's not like this is the only game out there.
If you completely play the game the right way and someone gets the better of you they NEVER just leave the exit gates. they wait to taunt you....Why? Because they're such good streamers helping the gaming community? No, because it makes THEM feel better about themselves to make someone else feel beneath them.
again...i am aware no one cares & no one agrees. They'll just say i was the worst red rank out there.
But how can NO ONE acknowledge this? How can everyone just pretend all the trolling is just part of it?
I'm good at this game, i'm good at other games. It never occurred to me to make someone else feel worse because i could do something.
So everyone keeps telling me the killers aren't quitting...i guess it's just me. I had friends drop out of this thing & i'm hanging on because i could see the good in the game. It's just not worth it, guys.
I'm aware this is just going to get lost in a heap of threads that everyone scrolls past. I just felt something needed to be said other than how awesome this is & tell me your favorite perk & color and all that garbage. The truth is this community has too many bullies in it and it's disguised as gameplay.
So again...i'm aware no one cares.
One more dedicated killer signing off that they're just going to say couldn't hack it
You are 100% correct, and honestly my blame lies on the Dev team for encouraging this type of behavior in Survivor players. This game used to be a fun gameplay loop with interesting chases and a fun back and forth, and now honestly it's just the same old ######### over and over again of getting tea-bagged, dedicated, gen-rushed, and boon-#########. The devs have just been really quick to hand survivors more and more tools to be toxic and have an individual advantage over the killer (not to mention 4 of them), while just shitting down killer's throats every update with totally balanced "balance changes."
Bugs go unfixed, power creep grows stronger and stronger as a claim that they're "shaking up the meta," and the dev team does nothing because their only perspective on how well Killers are performing is watching streamers with 10000 hours do well and say the game is balanced. All while repeatedly buffing the already winning side and allowing Survivors to be bullies and have more and more second chances to get away with it.
I guarantee I'll get a comment under this quote just saying I'm salty or that I'm bad at the game, but i've been playing this game since Beta, so I'd like to think i'm at least somewhat knowledgeable of how to play it.
Honestly killer players should just stop playing, and show BHVR that there are two player bases to this game, and that choosing a favorite should not be an option. Survivors wouldn't bully killers if the Killers were actually something to be afraid of.
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^^^
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Happened to me as well, I don't think it's map or killer dependent, as it's happened 3 games in a row on different maps. Just put in a Bug Report myself before I found yours!
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@Kaitsja said:
I'd like to point out that while the new MMR was working wonderfully for you, the same could not be said for many others.
Yes, since posting this I have read up more about why the MMR was removed. I'm saddened that the system didn't help everyone as it helped me, and hope that a more permanent and effective matchmaking solution takes its place.
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@cyniChris said:
I'm glad you had a good time with the MMR system. Most of us had boring matches cos we kept getting matched with new players who we could absolutely steamroll.
We desperately need a good matchmaking system. The ranks needs to be hidden, for a start. They're no indication of player skill. I've faced yellow ranks who have performed better than reds.
Some communication would be nice. Not that BS matchmaking Q&A - we need some honest and open communication. Tell us what's going on for once.
We're getting crossplay soon. I can't wait to see how badly the devs screw it up, because we all know they will.
I agree with you almost entirely. My only disagreement is that we should hide player rank. I'm afraid that if players are not shown the ranks of the players they're competing against, the Devs will not be motivated to change the matchmaking, as no one will have any specific evidence that there is a rank gap in their lobby.
It does suck that the MMR was not helping everyone as well as it was helping me, I wish we had a more permanent and effective matchmaking solution. It seems we'll just have to wait around and see what the Devs decide to do.
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@Milo said:
Then, the one time you put out an update that seems to help, you remove itThe mmr didn't always work as intented. If it worked for you, great! But many survivors and killers were being matched with new players which resulted in matches being even worse quality than before.
After posting, this fact has since come to my attention. I wish that there was a solution that could work for everyone, because the frustrations of matchmaking are probably the highest they've ever been.
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@MottledElm said:
This is the proof that whatever the devs do, someone will always complain
If you took the time to actually read my statement, you'd have seen that I've always defended the Devs decisions. This is my first time expressing frustration. There are people that just complain because they didn't get what they want, or their favorite perk got nerfed. But I post here in the hopes to spark conversation about how this game we love can be improved.
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In light of the Ruin change, have you ever considered applying the old Ruin effect with Unnerving Presence? I think it would be an interesting way to show the perk some love.