Bartolomeo87
Bartolomeo87
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- Bartolomeo87
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Comments
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Notice how whenever a killer perk has too high of a pick rate it MUST mean that the perk needs a nerf and gets a nerf accordingly, yet whenever a survivor perk has a massive pick rate the same logic never applies?
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Going to be interested to see what they do with Demo!
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Yep. Can’t even test out any of the new changes because if it. I play on console and so turning off cross play is a solution but not a very good one seeing as the que times are far worse, I’m talking a minimum 10-15 minutes before finding a match. At that point I’ll just go play something else.
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3636126#Comment_3636126
Top level be like....1000 win streak
I mean come on, you are not the top level. You're just average killer being mis-matched against better teams, just like me as average solo matched with stacked slowdown Blight.
Yeah top level win streak as in what? Blight and/or hardcore tunneling from the get-go? Yeah that’s a great argument there bud. And besides I was saying the “top level” as in comp dbd. I said we should look at top level as in comp. Pubs where they get those win streaks are not top level. There is a difference between high level and top level. So do you actually read what others say or just skim through it?
You have no idea what level I do or don’t play at. I’m not sure why you’re making baseless assumptions. My comments don’t even have me complaining about losing or anything of the sort. I’ve been pretty consistent with my standpoint so it seems like you just wanted a subtle diss and that’s the thing you’ve decided to come up with.
You’ve made no attempt to counter any of the points I’ve made you’ve just said a whole lot of nothing and therefore have added nothing to the discussion. You realize that when two sides have opposing viewpoints in a discussion that you’re actually supposed to try and provide a rebuttal for what they’ve said right? Your first sentence was the only one that even somewhat attempted that.
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@The_Krapper said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3636405#Comment_3636405
This argument is good but at the same time to play devils advocate, even if they made every gen take five minutes killers can still tunnel for a easy win because that problem can't be fixed without changing the way the game flows. I'd honestly like to see both sides get a major buff , them bring back bigger maps, reduce gen time but add another objective required to escape they could spawn a special objective for each realm to do along with gens so it's never the same thing over and over
I actually agree with what you said here. I’d be perfectly fine if the things that are not fun as survivor such as tunneling are no longer an option as long as they make it so that those things are not at all needed. I think the secondary objective idea could be one of the good solutions to the problems.
The only issue I see with some of these solutions you presented is that as you said it would take a lot of changes to the way the game flows and it’s a big ask of the developers and I’m not sure they’re really willing to take those steps.
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I’d like to also mention another factor which leads to an inflated killrate that I haven’t mentioned, and that’s the whole issue of tunneling. Survivors obviously hate being tunneled out, and I’ll admit it isn’t fun at all to be tunneled out. Yet time and time again you look at popular steamers that have thousands of hours on the game and even they tunnel for a win. Take Otz for example, when he’s going for winstreaks or just needs the win he tunnels one person out.
So why would these players who clearly know what they’re doing feel the need to tunnel even when it’s hated by their own community? It’s really simple. Survivor objective speed>>>>Killer objective speed. There is simply not enough time for a twelve hook game against a good team. That’s another reason why looking at purely the killrate is just not valid. It doesn’t really tell you the full story of the match.
If we completely remove the option of tunneling from the killer I would honestly guarantee that this “killrate” would plummet drastically.
There have been many valid points on this thread as to why the killrate is not a valid way to dictate the game’s overall balance including lower levels of play, tunneling and camping in order to even achieve the kills, survivors constantly offing themselves on hook, et cetera.
And I don’t really understand the idea that we shouldn’t balance around the higher levels of play. If we balance around the casual audience the game is more imbalanced when we reach the part of the game where both sides actually know how to play. If we balance around high level then the lower level will simply learn how to play the game as they get better. Most games literally balance around the better players it’s illogical to do the opposite.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3636126#Comment_3636126
The devs very specifically have stated that kill rates directly influence their balance decisions. So yeah, in any balance discussion that's going to play a role, and likely a pretty big one.
Given that it's nearly the only metric we have from the devs directly, it's anything but disingenuous. What's disingenuous is trying to throw out or discount the actual data because 'it should be balanced around how it feels' despite what the data data to the contrary.
I’ve literally just tried to explain why kill rates are not a valid indicator of game balance, guess you’ve chosen to ignore my argument on that as well? I’m not going to sit and repeat myself all day and it’s really not at all a difficult concept to grasp as to why killrate does not equate to game balance.
It doesn’t matter if it’s the only metric given by the devs. I’ve already explained why that logic doesn’t work. My argument was never that it should be balanced around how it feels, if anything I’m saying the game should be balanced around good players meaning the high levels of play. Literally look at the comp scene. That’s what the game looks like at top level. Killers literally struggle to secure kills to the point that they literally score it based off of HOOK STATES instead of KILLS lmao.
You: But the killrate tho
Me: Explains why the killrate is not an accurate portrayal of game balance and giving an example of what the game consistently looks like at high level where both sides are playing as good as they can be
You: But the killrate tho
My god it’s like talking to a brick wall. You know what? Believe what you want. You guys will literally do anything and use any logic you can in order to not have to accept the fact that survivor isn’t exactly this massive display of skill that some want it so desperately to be.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3636126#Comment_3636126
So instead of kill-rates , i will take your words?
No offense but nah. On all MMR levels, kill rates are higher than escape rates. High level included. If you have proofs about this game favors survivors, i am ready to listen.
Yes exactly. On ALL levels of play. That means low levels as well where the survivors are still running around afraid of the killer afraid to do gens lol. High level is included but it’s not specifically high levels, meaning the killrate is inflated by players who play at a casual level. I just gave you proof by giving an example of what the game looks like at top level, you know where both sides actually know how to play? You’ve just chosen to completely ignore my argument and then say that you’re willing to listen, when you literally did the complete opposite of that.
The honest truth is that it doesn’t really seem like you are willing to listen. You’ve literally just done the opposite of what you said you were willing to do. I can see I’m clearly not going to get anywhere with this conversation so we can just agree to disagree.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
Killrates are telling different story than yours. Game looks like pretty much killer-favored.
Are we really using the killrate argument again? If we want to look at how balanced the game actually is I’d say we should look at the top level of play no? You know where both sides actually know how to play? Well it doesn’t get much higher than comp dbd. In comp the survivors are heavily restricted, and they also usually play on maps which are more balanced.
Even with these heavy restrictions they literally base the scoring based off hook states instead of kills lmao. The killer almost always attempts to tunnel one out asap and even then usually end up with a handful of hook states and with one or maybe two kills by the end of the game. That’s WITH heavy perk restrictions on the survivors.
At this point saying, “oh but the killrate though” is just disingenuous.
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@Nazzzak said:
Suspecting someone is cheating doesn't mean they actually are. Watch any decent survivor streaming on Twitch and you'll see how common accusations of cheating are in endgame chat. BHVR not banning someone you suspect of cheating doesn't mean they don't care about cheaters. Maybe it means the person wasn't cheating?
You say that like there hasn’t been an abundance of threads like this. I’ve seen at least 10+ threads over the past few weeks about this subject. And for reference, I’ve played this game for around five years now. Sometimes I check into the stream of the players in the match if I see Twitch in the name. I seen someone accusing someone else of cheating only a handful of times.
There’s no reason for you to be dismissive at this point. I’d get if it was just a one or two time this but I see these threads constantly nowadays.
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Oh, another one of these threads? Too bad nothing is going to be done about it
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I don’t think he could beat Chucky at all. People often see Chucky’s size and say “oh I’d just punt Chucky”, or something along those lines. People often discard the fact that despite his doll size he retains the strength and speed of a grown man, in fact some of his feats put him at around peak human level. Chucky easily has higher end strength feats that far surpass anything David has shown. I could link a respect thread but I’m not sure if that’s allowed here so you could search one up for yourself if you wanted. I’m sick of the misconception that he’s around the strength of a mere toddler lol.
Now add in the fact that like most people on the internet, David would most likely assume Chucky is far weaker than he actually is. In a fight to the death I’d wager that mistake of underestimating the doll would be quite costly.
In conclusion, “YOU F### WITH THE CHUCK AND YOU DIE!”
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@mikewelk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3630791#Comment_3630791
They don't need to slug someone until they nearly bleed out and pretend to hump them just to mori them and go for the 4k. I get leaving the area so I can pick up the slugged survivor but standing on top of them so it's a death wish to try? Just toxic time wasting that cannot be justified.
You’re correct, there’s no reason to be toxic to people and that’s why I never mentioned that part. Unfortunately toxic players will always exist on both sides but my argument was more so addressing the balancing issues.
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@mikewelk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3630773#Comment_3630773
Well my solo queue team is far from strong and I'm usually the only one left with 2-3 gens remaining. They tunnel automatically and I don't see the fun in that especially when they are guaranteed a 3k. The personality has been swept away from them.
And that’s where part of the problem lies as well, the massive gap that exists between solo que and swf. They refuse to address swf, I believe it was brought up recently in one of their streams.
So what is the killer more likely to do here? They can either assume it’s a solo queue squad and play fair and get absolutely demolished and teabagged at the exit gate when it does end up being a swf, or they can play to win from the jump expecting a strong team and it possibly being overkill.
Swf is one of the biggest glaring issues and why it’s so difficult to balance the game well. Solo and swf almost feels like a completely different game. They refuse to address swf, so I definitely don’t expect killers to stop playing the way they do any time soon.
You can’t address things like camping and tunneling without addressing any of the reasons that killers are doing those things. If you want to make it to where the killer can not tunnel, slug, camp, or three gen you need to make it to where they don’t need to. Simple as that.
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Gotta love the abundance of these threads popping up recently and you just get people dismissing it as an issue by saying there isn’t as many as you think, or doubting you’re actually getting them at all. I guess every single thread made about it are just a bunch of liars lol…
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I’d say that’s partly due to the mmr changes and the fact that it’s the only strategies killers have left vs a strong team. A team that just sits on gens and is also at least decent at looping will not give you nearly enough time for a 12 hook game.
Tunneling, camping, occasional slugging, three gens, these are all things that are done in comp dbd because it’s shown to be the only effective hope of winning vs a team that’s as strong as you are on killer. The difference is that the objective speed for survivor is ridiculously faster than the objective speed for killer.
So imo until they make changes to the overall safety of tiles, the gen speed, the map size, or add a secondary objective for survivors killers will continue to be inclined to play this way. Well either that or they just continue nerfing everything that the killer has to actually have a chance to win vs a strong team because “it’s not fun for survivors” until the killer is just complete bully food against a competent four man.
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It won’t get you any value against a good team most of the time. The better survivors will usually try and keep track of the perks you’re using and will be keeping note if you seemingly have a fourth perk you’ve yet to use all game. A good team will be even more suspicious that you have the perk if you’re running other endgame perks along with it. It’s something that only really works if the survivors make some massive mistakes and that’s not exactly ideal for a killer perk.
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I’d say it’s a 10 for me. After he got reworked he shouldn’t have ever been touched imo. They hit him with some unnecessary nerfs and it really sticks out especially in the current meta. I mean look at the licensed killers we have now. Look at Xenomorph, Wesker, and Chucky for example. At the very least Freddy needs to get some of his nerfs reverted. I think we’d be just fine if Freddy wasn’t slowed while placing dream snares at the very least lol.
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@Batusalen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3625603#Comment_3625603
According to a cheat developer
Hens? (really, I don't remember who made the video)Choy interviewed, there is an even more easy and currently accessible source of free accounts: The Xbox Game Pass.Apparently the cheat providers are so invested in their work that even give guides with the cheats on how to create free accounts so you don't get banned in your main.
EDIT - Found the video:
Thanks for posting this video, I think more people need to see it. It really puts into perspective just how bad the cheating problem actually is in this game.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3627266#Comment_3627266
Obviously the Devs do something against cheaters. But it is an arms race... Once you close an opportunity for cheaters to cheat, they find a new one. And this is not really a DBD-only problem.
But I am also very sure that people dont go against as many cheaters as they claim. I think many complaints about cheaters are also because players dont understand things or overlook things (e.g. not realizing what a specific Perk does or stuff like this).
Forgot to quote sorry.
Well I can’t speak for others but I hardly ever make an accusation without getting all of the possibilities, only when the evidence is overwhelming will I reach that conclusion.
It sounds like like you’re being a bit of an apologist here. You’re right it’s not a dbd only problem, but it’s so much more frequent in this game compared to other games that it’s just not really acceptable or defendable at this point.
I can go play 50 games in a row on cod and not encounter a single cheater. I can go 50 games in a row on overwatch and not encounter one cheater. I can’t say the same for dbd. I could give examples for every other online game I play and that 50 game rule would still hold up. This is a big game at this point. There is literally no excuse for the anti-cheat system to be as bad as it is.
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Nope they won’t do anything about it, at best you’ll get less of them for a while but the problem always comes back in full force and never really goes away in the first place.
This is the first game I’ve played where you can find people all over the internet on platforms such as tiktok literally advertising the cheating software. Sure other games have that too but in the case of this game it’s egregious
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Subtle cheaters flood high mmr, nothing will ever really be done about it especially when they give free days knowing that they have a horrific cheater epidemic
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3619689#Comment_3619689
Why is survivors having tutorial to understand mechanic better spoon feeding?
I think you misunderstood what I meant. The tutorial we have now is good enough. Everything else should come with actually playing the game. Survivor really isn’t that difficult of a concept to grasp. The game teaches you to understand that concept well enough.
So what more do you want them to do, if you had to give some examples? Because yeah I think them adding more advanced tutorials is unnecessary and doing so in the manner that some in this thread have suggested would absolutely be spoon feeding.
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Personally I don’t even use corrupt because I get the first down quickly in 90% of my games making it almost a waste. Sure it won’t be a complete waste but the effect it had was minimal in those scenarios.
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I disagree. There’s already a bit of a lack of skill expression from survivors. They shouldn’t have everything spoon fed to them.
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Yeah that sounds fun with ultimate weapon lmao, 4 reveals with every use. Throw dms on top and you boot them all off any gens they were on. Seems balanced lol
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Yeah you’re essentially correct. Any killer that can put up a fight against the higher level of player is almost immediately considered “unfun” to most survivors. They want to be able to hold w and pre-drop god/strong pallets for an easy W. Hell this even applies to lower tier killers when you play them well. A survivor will love playing against your killer up until you actually do well vs them and all of a sudden you weren’t fun to play against lol
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They’re a bit of a double edged sword tbh, and even then only a handful of them are viable. Most aren’t worth running and the ones that are can be easily countered.
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Depends on many factors. It mostly depends on how good the killer is, and even then if it’s a semi-decent 4 man you certainly won’t be the power role in that situation. It all depends on a lot of factors. I win most of my matches until I actually get a decent 4 man, which then quickly reminds me that killer is FAR from the power role at high level.
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Yes they’re a failed concept. They’re mostly placed in such a way that the killer needs to break them if they want to catch the survivor at the loop with the breakable. They’re basically pallets that are already dropped if you think about it except they’re placed on walls.
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As already mentioned, these perks give you an actual shot at winning when going against a strong team while still being able to go for some chases. I even throw Deadlock in there. Even with this build and consistent 30-45 second chases all it takes is for a coordinated team to continuously split up on gens and even though you’re averaging quick chases it’ll still be a close game half the time just due to gen speed and them spreading out on gens. Oh and don’t let one of them make it to a god pallet or something and actually manage a chase longer than 30 seconds while their 3 teammates are all split on separate gens. God forbid the swf decides to run buckle up+for the people.
Literally all this combo does is reward the killer for good chases. If you can’t get downs relatively quickly these perks really won’t do much to stop a strong swf, and again even if you do that still doesn’t necessarily mean you’ll win.
I’m only really talking about these perks in regards to swfs because with the new mmr changes I feel it’s all I go against at this point. It’s an arms race tbh. You start wearing Kevlar we start buying armor piercing rounds. Essentially killers will always be attempting to up the ante at the same rate survivors do, and vice versa.
I do wish off meta builds or non gen regression builds were more viable against a good team but they just aren’t. Until some fundamental changes take place that make it so that gen defense is not a requirement to win against a strong team we will always be stuck in this arms race.
That being said, I have been enjoying running a full chase build recently. Furtive, Friends, Nemesis, and Rancor. Extremely fun chase build but I’ve only been able to get success on Wesker and Xeno, so killers that already have strong chase and map traversal which is part of the issue. These fun little builds that killers would like to use are often times only viable on killers that are already quite strong.
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
They are doing time to time.
For example, people disliked Batteries nerf and they reverted it to og version.
No they didn’t. They said they were going to but it’s the same nerfed version currently. So yeah they have said they were reverting that change but it hasn’t happened.